Southwest KLGA gear collapse.

[bubbers44]

All it takes is bypassing your do not fly with captains to a bid you can hold so it is very simple. Yes, I am sure the airline can show the list but opt not to. It would be interesting to know why she was on this do not fly with unofficial but bid making program. Obviously she was not well liked as a crew member for some reason. We had a pilot at our airline no one wanted to fly with too. She had a lot of problems. She had a lot of problems when she was my FO. Now she is in the left seat.

[Desert185]

And the beat goes on...

[bubbers44]

My chief pilot told me 5% of the pilots make 95% of their problems. I verified that in my 25 year career. I wouldn't leave the cockpit with some so peed before pushing back because the FO couldn't be trusted alone. I flew for a major US airline so assume it is worse with the minimum time foreign carriers hiring requirements.

[BARKINGMAD]

COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS.

"My chief pilot told me 5% of the pilots make 95% of their problems."

So what cohones do modern management NOT have which causes them to fail to grasp the nettle and get rid of the 5%??!!

It will probably save them a lot of grief later on AFTER the accident, provide employment opportunities for new blood and maybe make for a happier and more cohesive working team of flightdeck operatives.

Why do I think this is a no-brainer, unless I've lost my own brain..............?

OMIGAWD, I've just realised, some of the 5% may be management themselves?

[Bangkokian]

The problem with most modern management theorists is that they'll see a historical record of 5% of personnel falling below requirements, then they'll set a company mandate of getting rid of 5%. You can figure out what happens when the initial 5% of bad apples are gotten rid of.

Some examples:

Microsfto Stack Ranking

ENRON's Rank & Yank

There are myriad examples. Koch's Market Based Management is another. I can just imagine what this could do at some already demoralized carriers.

[flarepilot]

interesting though that management hires 100percent of the pilots. the fault lies not with our stars but within ourselves.

crappy airline pilots...how do they get that way? or is there crap within us all and it just comes to the surface at the wrong time?

[BARKINGMAD]

Possible staff reductions in support staff?

"interesting though that management hires 100percent of the pilots. the fault lies not with our stars but within ourselves.

crappy airline pilots...how do they get that way? or is there crap within us all and it just comes to the surface at the wrong time?"

What proportion of management are experienced pilots and what proportion are HR wallahs with their latest aptitude-testing tools and silly exercises to select suitable candidates for a profession about which they know little or nothing?

Once the HR tail started to wag the flight ops dog, then we were on a handcart to hell, and the sooner these wastrels are sent back to the office to look after prospective beancounters and IT geeks and the rest of the SUPPORT staff and kept out of selection for a very specific and scientific job such as flying, the better it will be for flight-ops?

Do brain surgeons and other highly skilled/qualified professionals also have to jump through these silly time-wasting and talent-wasting hoops?

[EastMids]

The captain has been fired by Southwest...

Southwest Dismisses Captain in Nose-First LaGuardia Landing (1) - Businessweek

[oceancrosser]

yeah, there was a thread about this on a.net. Disappeared very quickly...

[Akali Dal]

Name suppression? So laudable except that the OZ214 pilots had their names splattered all over and parodied before you could say " jack rabbit ". Absolute hypocrites ain't we?

[bubbers44]

She will with her union probably get her Job back. She is the 5 percent. We will see.

[bubbers44]

As a flight instructor for many years knew how to take control in the last two seconds when talking did not work. She should have been able to do it too.

Captains are always responsible as PIC. Only in politics can you blame the new guy below you.

[West Coast]

That's not always true. We recently had an issue in which the FO on the walk around missed a pretty significant item that involved an emergency descent and divursion. The FAA pinned the blame on the FO appropriately even though the SOP has the boiler plate language about the PIC being ultimately responsible blah blah.

I can't identify it any further as the info was passed to crews with the understanding it wouldn't be identified with our carrier.

[bubbers44]

Yes, who ever does the walk around is responsible because the PIC isn't doing it, the FO is. Flying is his responsibility.

[West Coast]

That's not what our SOP says however. It says its the Captains responsibility, but it can be delegated but the Captain is still overall responsible. And delegated it was. Hopefully the company will get around to changing the language to match the practical application.

[Halfnut]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...aguardia.html/

An excerpt -

UPDATE: 5:25 p.m.: We have this statement from Capt. Mark Richardson, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association president:

The Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA) is disappointed with the Companys decision to terminate the employment of the captain of SWA Flight 345 in LGA. SWAPA represents the interests of its pilots in accordance with the provisions of our collective bargaining agreement, and as such we will ensure the terminated pilot receives their right to due process.

SWAPA and Southwest Airlines are currently involved in the ongoing NTSB investigation as to probable cause and it is yet to be completed. The purpose of such an investigation is not to assign blame but ensure the prevention of a recurrence.

Similar to Southwest Airlines, we will not discuss specifics regarding active employee relations events and active investigations.

All Southwest Airlines pilots demonstrate their qualifications in periodic recurrent training and take pride in our role to operate our aircraft safely on over 3,400 flights per day.

[cockney steve]

All Southwest Airlines pilots demonstrate their qualifications in periodic recurrent training and take pride in our role to operate our aircraft safely on over 3,400 flights per day.

...............And this Pilot failed to "demonstrate their qualifications" when the chips were down,thereby causing very expensive damage to the aircraft , Ergo, the qualifications were distinctly lacking.

Arguably it's Management's fault for continuing to pay somebody to operate in a role where they were clearly not suited (lack of colleague support, for one)

IMHO a very expensive mistake , the Captain only gets "found out" and loses the job that was beyond her capabilities.....the airline has a big admin bill, a big repair bill, a big storage bill, a loss of revenue on the Capital tied up in the unusable hulk.......

A lot cheaper to have "let -go" a misfit hire in the early stages.....Oh, and the HR incompetent nincompoops want the boot as well.



not a wannabe or a Simmer!

[Desert185]

Cockney:

Agree on all, but the union role is to provide job protection to all crewmembers, regardless of their faults or suffer a lawsuit by said crewmember. More than likely, the union is going through the motions as required by their constitution and bylaws. We made an effort, no joy, ta-ta may well be the outcome.

[Airbubba]

More than likely, the union is going through the motions as required by their constitution and bylaws. We made an effort, no joy, ta-ta may well be the outcome.

The SWAPA press release does indeed sound a little lukewarm and perfunctory in its gender neutral statement of support:

SWAPA represents the interests of its pilots in accordance with the provisions of our collective bargaining agreement, and as such we will ensure the terminated pilot receives their right to due process.

Diversity advocacy groups have become involved in certain air crew termination proceedings and the threat of a 'discrimination' lawsuit is a common card to play e.g.:

Ex-Delta pilot files sex discrimination suit - Financial and Business News - MENAFN

[A Squared]

Originally Posted by Airbubba

Ex-Delta pilot files sex discrimination suit - Financial and Business News - MENAFN

McCraw said years later, in May 2009, she encountered the flight captain in the 1998 incident on a flight, and she alleges that he threatened a reprisal if she made any new sexual harassment claims. McCraw said she complained about the threat, and Delta removed her from her flying assignment without pay.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. There is just no way on god's green earth that Delta would, in 2009, suspend a female pilot for reporting that a co-worker had threatened her regarding a sexual discrimination harassment complaint. She may indeed have been suspended without pay, but guarantee you there was more to it than she telling.

McCraw said she eventually lost her job after becoming involved in a verbal confrontation with a male flight attendant during a layover in London in August 2010 and being arrested.

Oh well. If you're flying for a first tier passenger carrier, and you get into an altercation with a co-worker that results in the police hauling you off to jail while on a layover, don't be surprised if you get fired. I can guarantee that you aren't the first pilot that's happened to. That ain't discrimination, that's just life in the big leagues.