Crash-Cork Airport
drflight
Mr Karran: Eaghtyrane, thanking the Shirveishagh for his reply, would he not agree that the whole
principle of these questions has purely been not just about the 14 hours, but making sure that we do not have
operators being able to use the most lax rules, as far as safety is concerned, to provide commercial services from our Airport?
Mr Karran: Eaghtyrane, thanking the Shirveishagh for his reply, would he not agree that the whole
principle of these questions has purely been not just about the 14 hours, but making sure that we do not have
operators being able to use the most lax rules, as far as safety is concerned, to provide commercial services from our Airport?
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Frequent Flyer in the EU
I'm a frequent flyer within the EU and I expect - in fact I don't even question - that the carrier I use will be safe and conform to EU regulations. My grandfather came from Ireland and my father was born there so I have every reason - and have so done - to fly to, from and within Ireland. I expect the carriers I use there to conform to EU standards. I could well have been on that Belfast-Cork flight. The tortured process by which Manx2 sold their tickets on behalf of BCN Flightline who didn't own the aircraft and probably didn't train the crew needs to be dealt with so that we can all fly in confidence within the EU with ANY carrier. This is why I've been niggling away at exactly who Euro Continental, BCN Flightline and Air Lada actually are, who owns what and - most particularly - who was responsible for training the crew who flew the aircraft into the ground at Cork. How much fog had that Spanish commander had experience of? Not a lot if he mainly flew previously in southern Spain (I can only recall within the last five years, Alicante encountering fog once, and it was closed). Is this why the British co-pilot was flying - because the commander couldn't cope with fog? And who trained the co-pilot to deal with the peculiar low-speed characteristics of the Metro? Who said they could bust minimums? These are the sorts of questions which are now, hopefully, being addressed at the enquiry.
And how is it that, after a brief grounding and blacklist by the EU, Flighline BCN have been told that they may continue to operate on the basis that they put into place the shortcomings to which they have admitted?
I agree, wholeheartedly, that small operators should not be condemned out of hand. What I want to see is security that I may safely fly with any carrier within the EU. For me, after Cork, this is not the case.
And how is it that, after a brief grounding and blacklist by the EU, Flighline BCN have been told that they may continue to operate on the basis that they put into place the shortcomings to which they have admitted?
I agree, wholeheartedly, that small operators should not be condemned out of hand. What I want to see is security that I may safely fly with any carrier within the EU. For me, after Cork, this is not the case.
Sj
What will probably come out of the investigation having read the initial report is that
The AOC holder was appropriately licensed in ICAO/EU /National requirements
The ticket agency was approprately licensed and operating within their legal requirements.
The aircraft was 'serviceable' with no significant defects.
The crew were appropriately licensed, 'current', and in hours to do the flight.
Corks ATC service and infrastructure were all licensed appropriately and equipment serviceable.
The initial report indicates crew training, AOC requirements etc will be covered within the 'full' investigation as is normal procedure. At this stage the major cause would appear to be the failure to adhere to approach minima requirements. The investigation may or may not determine if that was a regular occurance or culture within the organisations/individuals involved throughout the accident.
What will probably come out of the investigation having read the initial report is that
The AOC holder was appropriately licensed in ICAO/EU /National requirements
The ticket agency was approprately licensed and operating within their legal requirements.
The aircraft was 'serviceable' with no significant defects.
The crew were appropriately licensed, 'current', and in hours to do the flight.
Corks ATC service and infrastructure were all licensed appropriately and equipment serviceable.
The initial report indicates crew training, AOC requirements etc will be covered within the 'full' investigation as is normal procedure. At this stage the major cause would appear to be the failure to adhere to approach minima requirements. The investigation may or may not determine if that was a regular occurance or culture within the organisations/individuals involved throughout the accident.
I wonder where there are any money men here though.
The Ticket Provider, based in a marginal and seasonal base, operating only to secondary destinations, marketing low fares on low capacity aircraft, is not a recognised route to riches.
The selected operators, invariably chosen from bottom bidder, along with all other costs minimised.
The various operators themselves, with a hand-me-down, high time fleet, and all the cost issues of running an operation half a continent away from their base. The last time I was through Barcelona the motley fleet of Fairchild Metros in the north-west corner of the airport appeared not to move for days. Again, not a route to money making.
The oil companies, who in recent times have been adept in increasing their pricing each year to absorb whatever margin any operator may have budgeted to achieve, seem to be the only money men here.
The Ticket Provider, based in a marginal and seasonal base, operating only to secondary destinations, marketing low fares on low capacity aircraft, is not a recognised route to riches.
The selected operators, invariably chosen from bottom bidder, along with all other costs minimised.
The various operators themselves, with a hand-me-down, high time fleet, and all the cost issues of running an operation half a continent away from their base. The last time I was through Barcelona the motley fleet of Fairchild Metros in the north-west corner of the airport appeared not to move for days. Again, not a route to money making.
The oil companies, who in recent times have been adept in increasing their pricing each year to absorb whatever margin any operator may have budgeted to achieve, seem to be the only money men here.
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l may not be the sharpest knife in the box, ....... but.
There is no such thing as a free lunch ( if you know of one point me there fast ).
Who are these altruistic people supplying an aircraft for no anticipated return ?
Now, either you have a vested interest or l`m doolally.
Or, of course, you don`t have the slightest clue about commercial aviation.
Let me think ...............
PS. these Jersey Royals, l`ve soaked them for a bit but they still look dirty, if l peel `em there`ll be nothing left.
l`ll go for oven chips instead.
There is no such thing as a free lunch ( if you know of one point me there fast ).
Who are these altruistic people supplying an aircraft for no anticipated return ?
Now, either you have a vested interest or l`m doolally.
Or, of course, you don`t have the slightest clue about commercial aviation.
Let me think ...............
PS. these Jersey Royals, l`ve soaked them for a bit but they still look dirty, if l peel `em there`ll be nothing left.
l`ll go for oven chips instead.
Last edited by overun; 15th May 2011 at 22:32.
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CAA Aerodrome Operating Minima Directive
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eeerrr, what exactly are they trying?
Establish new minima? Instead of making sure the existing ones are being adhered to?
'Trying' in the sense of failing?
Establish new minima? Instead of making sure the existing ones are being adhered to?
'Trying' in the sense of failing?
, I'm not convinced this was ever a CAA problem.
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Air Lada: does it exist ? If it does then where ?
Sadly I didnīt sort out the technology ....but I did read the BBC press release/ written trailer related to the programme. Moreover I do see the programme is due to be repeated on BBC 2 (NI) at 23:20 on 18th May which fortunately I can receive, so I look forward to seeing it only 24 hours late.
It seems that Air Lada, who supplied the paperwork (?) and the pilot training (?) though not the plane (which was provided by FlightlineBCN) couldnīt be contacted (located ?) the BBC.
My simple search on the www.einforma.com website, which I mentioned before, drew a blank. Apparently meaning at first sight that there is no such organisation registered by that name in Spain. Even although many media outlets have confirmed its rôle "as above" in this tragic story.
ŋ Curious ?
It seems that Air Lada, who supplied the paperwork (?) and the pilot training (?) though not the plane (which was provided by FlightlineBCN) couldnīt be contacted (located ?) the BBC.
My simple search on the www.einforma.com website, which I mentioned before, drew a blank. Apparently meaning at first sight that there is no such organisation registered by that name in Spain. Even although many media outlets have confirmed its rôle "as above" in this tragic story.
ŋ Curious ?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Air Lada has 1 Metro shown as 'in charter service' in Spain and the Canary Isles, apparently 'owned' by Euro Continental Air who are shown as also having ............1 Metro 'in charter service' in Spain and the Canary Isles, with FlightLine Spain.
Both companies Spanish according to a BBC news item. No apparent website.
Euro C A's AOC twice suspended for 'safety reasons; Oct 2009 and Jan 2010.
Air Lada not listed as a 'Spanish' operator by Aviation Safety Network and considered to be 'not a certified air carrier' by the EU
Both companies Spanish according to a BBC news item. No apparent website.
Euro C A's AOC twice suspended for 'safety reasons; Oct 2009 and Jan 2010.
Air Lada not listed as a 'Spanish' operator by Aviation Safety Network and considered to be 'not a certified air carrier' by the EU
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hellow sirīs.
Iīve been reading all the postīs about this accident, I am flying the Metro actually. Could anyone be son gently to copy this documentary to another web or format? from Spain I can not see it, due to limitations from BBC. And I am very interested in it. thanks a lot.
Iīve been reading all the postīs about this accident, I am flying the Metro actually. Could anyone be son gently to copy this documentary to another web or format? from Spain I can not see it, due to limitations from BBC. And I am very interested in it. thanks a lot.
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Interesting.
An AOC holder who is not responsable for the operation of an aircraft on its AOC because they don't provide the pilots.
And the FO being 16 hours online, he shouldn't have been out of line training never mind stuck next to a new Captain.
Only thing I would have issue with is the fact that they said that the aircraft wasn't safely equiped to fly in instrument conditions. Either the regulations are wrong or it was.
An AOC holder who is not responsable for the operation of an aircraft on its AOC because they don't provide the pilots.
And the FO being 16 hours online, he shouldn't have been out of line training never mind stuck next to a new Captain.
Only thing I would have issue with is the fact that they said that the aircraft wasn't safely equiped to fly in instrument conditions. Either the regulations are wrong or it was.