Crash-Cork Airport

[BigFrank]

Local Spanish reporting of Flightline(BCN)

Many thanks for the local info.

You mention one other company name and suspect they may be linked. I´ll see if I can use my fairly rudimentary skills to check some of the names.

Earlier I had to apologise for my careless use of some of the EU/Spanish acronyms, but the alphabet soup doesn´t end there.

Other companies which are "somewhere in the picture" but "hard to make out clearly" include Air Lada, LAA (= Líneas Aéreas Andalus ?) Fly Sur, TAER Andalus and Andalus Líneas Aéreas; the same as LAA ? Or not?

It is interesting that the last Spanish language link which you provided is in fact to a Mexican newspaper. There does not seem to be much appetite in the Spanish press to cover this story. Nor indeed in the UK, despite the status of "The Six Counties" in international law.

[Daermon ATC]

Thanks a lot for your efforts, Big Frank adn Sunnyjohn

[Sunnyjohn]

Euro Continental and Flightline

Thanks for your link to Air Lada, Big Frank. And what do we find?
According to Ascend Worldwiide, information updated weekly, Air Lada have a fleet of one Fairchild Metro III - owned by none other than Euro Continental Air. From the same source, Euro Continental Air own one Metro III - leased to Air Lada, and one Metro II - leased to Flightline. And Euro Centinental Air? Formed in 2005 and based in Valencia, where, you may recall, they were previously based before their AOC was suspended. Can you smell what I can smell . . .?
Here are the links:
Profile on Euro Continental Air | Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation - CAPA
Profile on Air Lada | Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation - CAPA

[BigFrank]

Links (if any) between Euro Continental and Flightline

I used a website
www.einforma.com

which is a standard search engine for low-level commercial investigation in Spain.

It indicates that Euro C was founded near Barcelona (Castelldefels on the coast just south of BCN) but moved to Valencia around 2005.

The names of directors etc does not appear to show any strong correlation with the same list for Flightline.(One second surname in the Spanish double-surname convention appears amongst directors but hardly seems important.)

Indeed Euro C seems to be controlled by someone from the estate agency/ construction industry currently. Which might tell us something.

[Livesinafield]

I cannot believe the statement from Manx2 towards easyjet

well i tell you what ill never book a ticket with Manx 2 ever because they use airlines that bust minimums..

be safe fly with a real airline..

[swoopy]

You have concrete proof that VanAir Europe, Links Air and FLM Aviation bust minimums do you?

[Livesinafield]

No but there's concrete proof that flightline BCN bust minimumns

[lfc84]

5 June 2010:

History : Weather Underground

Easyjet says safety rules its cancellation policy*|* Newsroom*|*isleofman.com

Its worth mentioning this factual post once more:

http://www.pprune.org/6236392-post82.html

Whilst I am thinking historicially. Remember this:

Manx2 aircraft suffers burst tyre in airport emergency - Isle of Man News - iomtoday

Tyre alert on Manx2 aircraft - Isle of Man News - iomtoday

Manx2 Emergency At The Airport - Manx Forums, Live Chat, Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man - Manxforums.com

[Livesinafield]

Thank you IFC84.. even more of a reason to fly with a proper airline and not a half rate "carrier"

[manx crab]

FlyManx2 Manx2.com
we've a little bit of recurring low cloud/mist & the dreaded 3 letter word beginning with F & ending in G here @ IOM, but we're still flying
20 Mar


This was posted on 20th March 2011 on the t witter blog of theirs.

Make of this what you will

[JSCL]

I disagree with the slating of smaller operations like Manx2 that are still gathering their footing. But Manx2 seems pretty unethical in its handling ofnthe situation. I support 'virtual airlines' who are getting footing and projecting to the big game, but this is just a joke now.

[lfc84]

Twitter:

Still foggy around parts of the UK but the last few flights are expected to arrive ontime, Todays only disruption was Leeds Bradford
7:28 PM Dec 29th, 2010 via web


Some fog down here at Ronaldsway at the moment however we plan to operate all flights.
2:55 PM Dec 29th, 2010 via web


Belfast's arrived and Blackpool departed. Just Inbound from Gloucester then we're done for Xmas! Thanks for trusting Manx2 to get u home.
4:29 PM Dec 24th, 2010 via web

Short delay on our inbound Belfast due freezing conditions there - which may knock onto our Blackpool but half hour max - home soon. Manx2
3:51 PM Dec 24th, 2010 via web

[lfc84]

7 Dec 2010. Freezing Fog in Gloucester.

History : Weather Underground

GLO pax should hopefully land by 2230 in IOM... road conditions from GLO to CWL poor...
10:17 PM Dec 7th, 2010 via web
NM611 passengers are now being sent by road to Cardiff. We anticipate the aircraft to land @ IOM approx 2130. Apologies for inconvenience
7:52 PM Dec 7th, 2010 via web
The NM610 has attempted to land in Gloucester, but has now diverted to Cardiff. Onward road transportation has been arranged to Gloucester
7:50 PM Dec 7th, 2010 via web
Road transportation will be arranged between Birminham and Gloucester as appropriate. Apologies for any inconvenience
5:03 PM Dec 7th, 2010 via web
NM610/1 will now operate through Birmingham this evening, due to weather conditions at Gloucester. Please check in as normal
5:02 PM Dec 7th, 2010 via web
NM 612 /3 IOM-GLO-IOM is delayed due to weather in Gloucester. Now operated on NM610 / 1. Apologies for inconvenience.
1:05 PM Dec 7th, 2010 via web

[swoopy]

Good thing that FLM Aviation diverted like they were supposed to then isn't it!

All aircraft make an "attempt" to land on approach even before they decide they need to divert

[lfc84]

they seem to have a history of sending aircraft up to have a look and see:

The NM804 to Newcastle is now diverting direct back to the Isle of Man due to the snow. The NM805 is now cancelled.
1:55 PM Dec 1st, 2010 via web

Newcastle airport is currently closed due to snow. The NM804 will probably divert to Blackpool and passengers sent by road to Newcastle.
1:30 PM Dec 1st, 2010 via web

[Tinwald]

JSCL fella, if manxy2 was projecting to the big game that is becoming a real airline, getting its own aircraft, crew and cabin crew...and even an AOC then there might be a bit more support but theres no sign of it. Problem is most of the manx still think they're flying with a real airline - the con will end at some time, yessir

[lfc84]

Left stranded? Extra Blackpool flights available this afternoon.... Call 0871 200 0440 to book or visit Manx2 ticket desk.
Sat Jun 05 2010 13:34:11 (GMT Daylight Time) via web
Reply Retweet
Some fog on the Isle of Man this morning, however all passengers please check-in on time.
7:42 AM Jun 5th, 2010 via web

[drflight]

Persons following this tragic accident and consequences may be interested to read something of the questions and answers being asked and given in the Manx Parliament, Tynwald. Here is a link to Tynwald website. If one types 'Manx2' into the search box at top right you can find some of the exchanges by reading through the papers:

Tynwald - The Parliament of the Isle of Man

What follows is copied and pasted from Hansard and includes some of the exchanges between Mr. Kerran, a member of the House of Keys (the lower house) and the Minister for Infrastructure at the session on April 11th in Tynwald. It is a trifle disconcerting to discover Mr. Kerran seems to have a firm grasp of the seriousness of this affair yet many of his colleagues do not. At least that is how I read much of it. Here is the passage:

Isle of Man based airline operations
Oversight and supervision
12. The Hon. Member for Onchan (Mr Karran) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:
In relation to an airline operation based on the Isle of Man, using an Air Operator’s Certificate to operate
the flight from (a different) jurisdiction (A), an aircraft registered in jurisdiction (B), wet-leased from
jurisdiction (C), with the pilots’ licences issued by jurisdictions (D) and (E) and operating a service from
jurisdiction (F) to jurisdiction (G); what powers of oversight and supervision his Department has in
relation to –
(a) the experience and skills of the flight crew;
(b) the avionic equipment on board the aircraft;
(c) the standard operating procedures of the flight operator;
(d) the airfield instrument approach charts that have to be carried on the aircraft in the event of diversion;
and
(e) the safety record of the aircraft type to be used for the service; and
what plans the Minister has for his Department to take a more proactive role with regard to aviation
supervision?

The President: We move on to Question 12.
Mr Karran.
Mr Karran: Eaghtyrane, I ask the Question standing in my name.
The President: Again, Minister Gawne to answer, please.
The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Gawne): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane.
Again, I would reiterate to the Hon. Member that the Department operates the Island’s airport. It does not
have any regulatory oversight or supervision with regard to airlines. Therefore, with specific regard to the five points, (a) to (e), in the Question above, the Answer is none in each case.
The Department is confident that it meets the international standards required for running an airport and
has no plans to step into an arena outside of its airport operation. International aviation already meets the
standards laid down by the European Aviation Safety Agency and the International Civil Aviation
Organisation and is well regulated by the appropriate national aviation authorities.
The President: Mr Karran.
Mr Karran: Eaghtyrane, a supplementary.
Is it not the case, Eaghtyrane, that neither the Minister for Infrastructure nor the Minister for Economic
Development, who have shared responsibility for aviation supervision on the Island, have any powers of
oversight or supervision on these matters?
Is it not also the case that one of the… and probably more than the issue that relates to the crash at Manx2airport… at Cork airport, on 10th February 2011… therefore the changes… Does the Minister, in conjunction with the Minister for Economic Development, intend to make sure that a similar accident cannot happen at Ronaldsway Airport, in order to make sure that we have minimum standards, as far as safety is concerned?
The President: Mr Gawne.
The Minister: I wish that the Hon. Member would listen to the Answers because I have already said what
he has asked, so the Answer is on Hansard and I am sure that he can follow that.
As I have already said on several occasions today, and in the House of Keys on previous occasions, I
believe that we do have at least minimum levels of safety at the Airport.
The President: Mr Karran.
Mr Karran: Eaghtyrane, would the Shirveishagh not agree that the issue, as far as the play on words on
the minimum standards… Yes, you have the minimum standards within the European Union, as far as the
minimum standards are concerned, but those minimum standards would not be acceptable if they were a
British-run air service, like I said in the previous… where you can have 14 hours being on constant duty in
certain jurisdictions, and yet only nine hours in other jurisdictions, like the United Kingdom. Surely, as
responsible people, both his Department and the Department of Economic Development should be bringing in minimum standards, as far as who operates from Ronaldsway Airport as far as any commercial routes are concerned, in the interests of public safety?
The President: Mr Gawne.
The Minister: Gura mie eu.
Having now, I think, possibly, got to the bottom of what the hon. questioner’s concern is, I am more than
happy to look into this issue, and I hold open the invitation for him to come down and talk it through with us. International aviation regulation is a very large area and, quite frankly, until the Hon. Member really
identifies that it appears to be this 14 hour issue that is his concern, I could have spent from the moment I got the Question through to now trying to brush up on every single aspect of international aviation and we would still probably have missed the issue that he is trying to talk about.
So now that we know what the issue is, as I have said, I am more than happy to look into it, although I
have some degree of optimism to think that we have considerably more than the minimum level of safety
requirements at the Airport.
The President: Mr Karran, finally, I think, sir.
Mr Karran: Eaghtyrane, thanking the Shirveishagh for his reply, would he not agree that the whole
principle of these questions has purely been not just about the 14 hours, but making sure that we do not have
operators being able to use the most lax rules, as far as safety is concerned, to provide commercial services from our Airport? Will he reconsider the fact of talking to his other Minister from Economic Development,and let us have a meeting on this subject, so that we can see whether we bring about acceptable standards,even allowing it is allowed for under international agreement?
The President: Minister Gawne.
The Minister: Gura mie eu.
I am going to compliment the Hon. Member now, so I hope he does not blush! (Laughter) He is extremely
good at picking parts of documents and making them sound like terrible slurs and situations and… ‘Oh, this is an awful, terrible, shocking state of affairs.’ There is a strong implication, through the series of questions that the Hon. Member has asked, both in Keys and here today, that in some way airline operators, ticket providers operating from the Isle of Man, are not meeting appropriate standards. I think that is a very unfortunate slur that has been put out (Members:Hear, hear.) by the Hon. Member. I think it is a shame that he has refused, on three occasions, to meet with at least one of the airline operators on the Island who, had he been prepared to meet them, might have been ableto give him some reassurance.
It is a bit unfortunate, I think, if the level of concern is as great as the Hon. Member suggests, that he has
not, as yet, after almost a month of putting questions down, bothered to actually go and talk to anyone to say what his specific concerns are. If there is a major safety concern on the Isle of Man, leaving it a month to actually clarify what that is, I think, is very unfortunate on the part of the hon. questioner.
The President: Finally, Mr Karran.
Mr Karran: Eaghtyrane, would the Shirveishagh not agree that the fact is that what I am saying is that,
under the present procedures, an operator can use acceptable levels in parts of other jurisdictions that would not be acceptable in the likes of what we have come to expect, as far as the Isle of Man is concerned?
Does he not agree that the fact is that he should be able to answer clear questions in parliament, without
trying to have the usual way of having us all mates together, behind closed doors, where we do not actuallyresolve the issues that need to be resolved, as far as this parliament is concerned? (Interjections)
1460 The President: Mr Gawne, do you wish to reply, sir?
The Minister: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane.
I suspect that I understand the answers better than the Hon. Member understands the questions in this
regard. (Mr Downie: Hear, hear.) All I can do is reiterate I think it is unfortunate the Hon. Member is
choosing to try and slur at least one very successful Manx business. I think that is unfortunate. I think it would be a lot easier, if he has some major safety concerns, if he actually came and spoke to us directly so we could understand what they are.

[Livesinafield]

All aircraft make an "attempt" to land on approach

Even if the rvr is WAY below the minimum.. it appears so in this company's history

[lfc84]

See post 25 onwards in this thread:

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