Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

SWA Captain delays flight for bereaved passenger!

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

SWA Captain delays flight for bereaved passenger!

Old 17th Jan 2011, 14:03
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,729
Likes: 0
Received 70 Likes on 34 Posts
Originally Posted by suninmyeyes
What annoys me is when the flight departs on time but leaves a load of baggage behind because the ground staff want to get their bonus for an on time departure or the gate is needed for an arriving aircraft. For many passengers arriving at destination without their cases will ruin their holiday, cruise, business trip etc.
Who put such a bonus scheme together ? Why are the ground staff entitled to any bonus points if all their duties (which includes loading all baggage) are not completed ?

This sort of bending to the nationally reportable statistics rather than the requirements of the paying passengers has also afflicted the railway in Britain, where some ludicrous management decisions are made to enable the right sort of simplistic statistics to be achieved.
WHBM is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2011, 14:06
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Late connects (12-15?)heading to Europe. Miss the flight and they'll be 24 hrs delayed. Little do we know it's the future bride, groom, parents, and a couple of friends heading to the overseas wedding.

Management has already decided that they'll miss their connections. The employees decide they will MAKE the connection. So the departure gets delayed. People make the flight.

Think they're all happy? No. Two have been reassigned seats in business instead of F/C. Not happy. The drama starts.

Luckily the others understood the circumstances. How would we withheld other upgrades because we're holding the seats for people that officially will never make the flight???. Thankfully the others convinced the father of the bride to calm down before he got himself removed from the flight.

So would the father write a thank you note or would he write a complaint?

"No good deed goes unpunished."
misd-agin is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2011, 16:55
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tamworth, UK / Nairobi, Kenya
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by suninmyeyes
What annoys me is when the flight departs on time but leaves a load of baggage behind because the ground staff want to get their bonus for an on time departure or the gate is needed for an arriving aircraft. For many passengers arriving at destination without their cases will ruin their holiday, cruise, business trip etc.

Who put such a bonus scheme together ? Why are the ground staff entitled to any bonus points if all their duties (which includes loading all baggage) are not completed ?

This sort of bending to the nationally reportable statistics rather than the requirements of the paying passengers has also afflicted the railway in Britain, where some ludicrous management decisions are made to enable the right sort of simplistic statistics to be achieved.
It's not talked about, but sometimes baggage is "lost" because it's held on purpose, in order to make sure the flight is not overweight.
darkroomsource is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2011, 17:29
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Medically Grounded
Posts: 137
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
I remember an incident as an SLF when my luggage was offloaded at a stopover enroute to my final destination.. I watched it sitting on the tarmac while we taxied away for departure. Didn't have the material I needed for a business presentation when I arrived. I've been a carry-on passenger ever since for anything critical.
Piper_Driver is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2011, 22:26
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In general the be all and end all in the aviation industry is that aircraft needs to be off stand on time. Airlines in general like to protect their on-time schedule performance as it is now published.

When aircraft don't go on time then everyone needs to know the reason especially if you work for a 3rd party agent handling the flight.

As modernised aircraft start to be entered into service with ACARS installed they monitor and send to airline operations the times of doors closed, pushback and airborne times. This halts the descretion of calling a flight of time confirmed with Captain allthough really it's 5 minutes late.

3rd Party agents can also be fined for taking a number of handling delays which including late acceptance of passengers. (unless at captain special request).

The fine line is who is telling the truth and who isn't? With -20 & -30 check-ins along with internet check-in passengers. Passengers are cutting it fine and leaving minimum time to turn up at the airport.

I would prefer that discretion could be used however the pressures for on-time performance and having to explain your actions along with a possible record on personel files will deter it. Not everyone is honest.

The good old days where nobody would question a delay are well over.
mathers_wales_uk is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2011, 22:40
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tamworth, UK / Nairobi, Kenya
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, too many nit-picking types.
If a flight is +/- 30 minutes, it's "on time" as far as MOST reasonable people are concerned. Buf if it's scheduled for a 9:14 arrival and it's 9:16 when it gets there, that's considered not on time.

Of course, if a flight doesn't arrive at precisely the right time, then we have the issue with too many planes trying to land on the same runway at the same time...
darkroomsource is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2011, 22:52
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Punctuality records in the UK are based on up to 15 minutes off stand.

However depending on a length of flight it can depend on how much time a flight can make up. It's also much harder if it's a low cost carrier where all the times are kept to the minimum to start with. This can cause a knock on effect for the rest of the days flights.

Some airlines that operate shuttle services into a hub for onward connections. It is not just the passengers you need to think of but the crew may not all be operating the same flight for the onward connection.

So not only do you have to worry about the passengers on your flight that may miss connections. But if all crew are operating on seperate flights and different aircraft then in theory you may in total cause delays to 4 or 5 other flights depending on number of crew operating.
mathers_wales_uk is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 08:20
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Smaller Antipode
Age: 89
Posts: 31
Received 37 Likes on 19 Posts
Then there is the other side of the fence .......

Ready to depart for 7 hour night sector from a S.E. Asia airport.

Company Agent asks if I will declare a 10 min.Crew Delay, 'cos the wife of some Far Eastern Potentate, who is commercially important to the airline, is still shopping in Duty Free.

No, crew is ready, but if you wish to declare a 10 min Traffic delay, be my guest, we have some spare Duty Time to play with.

Company Agent wets himself but declares 10 min Traffic Delay "due late pax"

10 mins later scene replayed, same solution.

10 mins later I again refuse a further "Crew Delay" and ask Agent to leave the flight deck and close the forward door, we have the loadsheet, 300 other pax have connections to make, we're off.

Can't leave Mrs. Potentate behind, says Agent, Oh yes I can says I.

Agent then plays his Trump card, can't leave because Mrs. Potentates' bags are on board, and that is a security risk , so we will have to look for them, which will take time.

Oh yes we can, I say, because I don't believe Mrs. Potentate is a terrorist (the TSA hadn't been invented )

You don't mean you will leave Mrs. Potentate ( I think he called her a Queen, in fact ) behind but take her bags away, do you ? Yes, and please close the door as we now have an ATC clearance to meet.

Agent wets himself again, but just then 2 large Mercedes limousines appear, heading for the aircraft, so in the end Mrs."Queen" Potentate got on board, I had informed the waiting pax of the reason for their inconvenience, so she was greeted by ironic clapping. (tho' she probably thought it was adoration)

Those sort of passengers p**sed me off.
ExSp33db1rd is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 09:12
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am glad you are not in the UK. As you would not have been allowed to push back with that passengers bags still on board.

In UK If a passenger has turned up at check-in with bags and somehow not turned up at the gate then regardless who they are their luggage that's still in the hold should be removed before the planes depart.

Didn't the same thing happen in the Locerbie bombing?

Bags can only travel unacompanied if it has had more instensed screening by the security agents along with their signature. 1 Copy for captain & the other copy for Dispatcher.

However this is another topic alltogether.
mathers_wales_uk is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 10:32
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: South West UK
Age: 58
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nice thread, good to see that Humanity hasn't completely vanished. However, there is always someone who will bring the rules into a post. Kinda lost the "thread" of the Thread.
Wolfman857 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 11:25
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: At home
Posts: 1,233
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
On flight I was on some years ago as a passenger, we had been sitting on the ground for some time, all seats appeared full, but the door was open, so I happened to ask the stewardess what the delay was.

She said 'There's a vegetarian on board, and their meal hasn't arrived yet'.

You can guess who the veggie was!
Mechta is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 11:54
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seoul
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just SLF, but as I'm in education I hear excuses for being late and emergencies all the time. What I observe is that much of being late is due to bad planning or procrastination, not an actual unexpected situation.

Much of this thread has made me feel warm with the humanity of so many people, as evidenced by the original topic of this thread as well as stories of getting a few precious hours with a dying parent. Yet what of the idiot who knows that a parent is very ill and still goes off on a ski week instead of being cautious and staying near home just in case something happens? I do NOT suggest this is the case for any who have posted here, but there are people who take unreasonable risks expecting that others will help if needed, instead of avoiding the risk in the first place.

If I miss a connection and spend 24 hours in a strange city due to a true emergency as described in this thread many times, then I see it as a happy adventure. If we depart 1 minute late because of waiting for some idiot, who should reasonably (OK what is reasonable!!!) have not left home in the first place, needs to rush back home, then I am grumpy.

Help when truly needed is beautiful, but facilitating idiotic decisions only promotes more of those decisions.
TeachMe is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 12:29
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,729
Likes: 0
Received 70 Likes on 34 Posts
Originally Posted by mathers_wales_uk

However depending on a length of flight it can depend on how much time a flight can make up. It's also much harder if it's a low cost carrier where all the times are kept to the minimum to start with. This can cause a knock on effect for the rest of the days flights.
This is not correct in practice. A number of LCCs who appear to have 20 minute turnarounds also have notably generous flight times, and do normally pick up something on the schedule. Ryanair is a case in point, others are similar.
WHBM is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 15:52
  #54 (permalink)  
Drain Bamaged
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Earth
Age: 56
Posts: 541
Received 49 Likes on 18 Posts
"I'm fed up, close the door and go, I'll deal with him"

ExSp33db1rd,

Your story remind me one of my late father, "Chef d'escale" for Air Afrique and UTA in the late 70's in Bangui, Central Africa Republic.

One day, he was arrested and rounded up to the "conseil des ministres" were they threatened him of jail for letting a DC-10 leave on time.
Not waiting for a notorious (and always late) local minister who had a trip to do in France.

My father was back on the job the following morning and the story goes that this particular minister made all his subsequent flights on time


Just to say that in those particular cases, when you close the door you just leave the scene behind.
The agent will be left there to deal heads on with whatever situation it provoked

Last edited by ehwatezedoing; 18th Jan 2011 at 16:04.
ehwatezedoing is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 16:06
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: FL410
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
dont know who keeps on saying that this 'great publicity' will earn them millions they obviously haven't seen the pax figures for ryanair this year....over 70 million of these idiots keep on coming back for the same punishment and not a decent article written on them for decades.

hmmm seems like the phrase all publicity is good publicity is true....maybe the managers of other airlines should follow his lead.....no scrap that please don't!
Unregistered737 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2011, 16:17
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tamworth, UK / Nairobi, Kenya
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The thing is, with the exception of a few people who've read/contributed on this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't more than a dozen people worldwide who could tell you which airline this happend on.

First, it was not widely publicized. Second, the one news station that did cover it didn't say the airline name AT ALL. Third, the airline has not taken out any ads saying "We make sure you get to see your grandkid die" (sorry, that was very sick humor, Lord, please forgive me for that, and help the pygmies down there in New Guinea, Amen) And fourth, no airline is going to publish it because then they'd have to create an SOP as to what constitutes and emergency that should be waited upon and what does not, and that would start up the lawsuit machine.

So, this, and other "human" actions, taken by airlines that show themesleve to be be caring, will not result in increased revenue for a particular airline. However, it might increase revenue overall for all airlines.
darkroomsource is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2011, 05:25
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: U.S. East Cost and Europe (travelling too much, and at home in both)
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yet what of the idiot who knows that a parent is very ill and still goes off on a ski week instead of being cautious and staying near home just in case something happens? I do NOT suggest this is the case for any who have posted here, but there are people who take unreasonable risks expecting that others will help if needed, instead of avoiding the risk in the first place.
I second this. It's wonderful that you feel good about the captain who showed some humanity. But you have to realize that there is real cost, pain and money associated with this for EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE PLANE. In my job, I see a lot of people wrestling with decisions that will hurt one person, but make life better for 100 or more. And the answer is always, tough for that one person, let's help him/her as much as we can, but we have to save 100 jobs, not one. This delay was small, and anybody, including me, would be happy to be a bit late out of compassion for this person. But please don't extrapolate to "I wait for the idiot who lost his passport", or "I delay 100 people just because I think we shouldn't screw one passenger". As an employee of a company, every pilot should also feel a responsibility to the company to get stuff done and make money. Because: Bad performance, no customers. No customers, bad financials. Bad financials, no investors. No investors, no jobs.

Yes, compassion is good, and this was a good decision that anybody would back. But this doesn't mean pilots should just wait for any late passenger just because they feel like it.
FlyingConsultant is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2011, 05:56
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 101
Received 21 Likes on 15 Posts
One thing which really impressed me about this was that Southwest hierachy said "We encourage our staff to use their intiative".

That attitude must pay real dividends with the staff.
Chris2303 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2011, 08:05
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Smaller Antipode
Age: 89
Posts: 31
Received 37 Likes on 19 Posts
I
am glad you are not in the UK. As you would not have been allowed to push back with that passengers bags still on board.
Agreed - now, but this was pre-9/11 and even pre-Lockerbie, and the airline concerned still gave the matter of offloading baggage "Captains' Discretion" and clearly the subject passenger wasn't a potential hijacker (on-board bombers weren't considered so much of a major threat then. )

Remember when it was nice to have " Captains' Discretion", chaps, before the World went truly Mad ?

However this is another topic alltogether.
Agreed, but I was just showing the other side of the picture - for every pax. deserving of sympathy and consideration, there are two ( or more ) who don't !! ( I could write a book )

I used to actually volunteer for the Mid - night freight flights -all I had to do was fly the aeroplane and didn't have to be nice to anyone - 'cept possibly my Flight Engineer, even the Co-pilot I could have managed without, but not the F/E, an essential part of every aeroplane. Ahhhhh !!!!
ExSp33db1rd is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2011, 13:24
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North West UK
Posts: 539
Received 11 Likes on 5 Posts
As an SLF who frequently changes planes mid-route, my main concern is not taking off on time, but arriving with sufficient time to make the connection.
Espada III is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.