Lufthansa cargo plane crash
Joined: Jan 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 279
Likes: 17
From: Europe
and only Owls and Witches should fly in the middle of night, Right ?
But taking into account the briefing time prior to the flight and some time for getting to work from home, that might explain the 'fatigue' factor.My intention was just to point that out. Excluding fatigue as a contributing factor right away seems too easy to me - even if the flight time is rather short for 'long range' flight.
We will all find out, when the final report is released...
Regards,
DBate
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Tunisia
OERK happens to be the easiest of the 3 major airports in KSA. Much better marked and easier to identify visually than Jeddah. ATC is more professional than JED or DHA.
ILS/DME to 15L/R, ILS/DME to 33L/R, VOR/DME to 15 L/R, VOR/DME to 33L/R.
WX is predominately CAVOK with light winds. Temps high for 6 months a year which do restrict TO weight.
In closing, RUH is an under utilized, well marked, well controlled, airport with 2 3300 meter runways with very little WX. Can you ask for more? What better place to go to especially if crew was unfamiliar.
ILS/DME to 15L/R, ILS/DME to 33L/R, VOR/DME to 15 L/R, VOR/DME to 33L/R.
WX is predominately CAVOK with light winds. Temps high for 6 months a year which do restrict TO weight.
In closing, RUH is an under utilized, well marked, well controlled, airport with 2 3300 meter runways with very little WX. Can you ask for more? What better place to go to especially if crew was unfamiliar.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Ampang
DXB temp > 50 deg C?
Posted by Green Guard :
Wow, utter hogwash. DXB has never had temperatures above 50 deg C and I guess someone was sleeping during the met and performance classes.
40 deg C on ~2000 feet MSL is "hot an high" airport ??
and should not be used by unwary....?
PS no1. Dubai with sooooo many flights per summer days, even if at ~MSL,
but >50 deg C.....is OK for "unwary pilots" ??
and should not be used by unwary....?
PS no1. Dubai with sooooo many flights per summer days, even if at ~MSL,
but >50 deg C.....is OK for "unwary pilots" ??
PS
one should worry about hot or high or both "hot and high" RWY,
only before T/O.
For Landing the only difference may be longer run...but not limiting factor in this case, Right ?
one should worry about hot or high or both "hot and high" RWY,
only before T/O.
For Landing the only difference may be longer run...but not limiting factor in this case, Right ?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Australasia
Now, now, Kal give the boy wonder a break....................he is stretching the temp up quite a bit; not too much but it is his understanding about performance and aerodynamics in hot and high airports that's scary!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 649
Likes: 10
From: EU
DXB has never had temperatures above 50 deg C
. There will be enough desert-residents on this forum to correct me if I am wrong.
Last edited by golfyankeesierra; 19th August 2010 at 18:05.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Ok guys....
290 answers to this one . Plus so many for the Fedex in NY and more from the one in Tyo. And how many form the one in HKG? Plus , plus , plus. How many MD11 crashed so far? I lost the count already. All kind of theory about what went wrong. Nothing went wrong. The airplane itself is wrong. When is the authority going to withdraw the airworthiness certificate to this poorly modificated DC 10? Pilots from all around the world have fallen victim to this killer machine. It is not about skills or SOP anymore...
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
From: USofA
It's interesting that when this aircraft was mostly in passenger service the catastrophic accidents were rare with the exception of the VHHH accident, and Swissair which I can't blame completely on the airframe as opposed to some after introduction IFE. I think lessons learned from the Swissair accident can be appilied across a wide range of current airliners. American, Delta, and a host of other large airlines operated this aircraft without losing a hull. As soon as it started appearing in the freight role the accidents went up. I have no explanation for this other than possible the freighters were operating at higher weights and thus the margin for error was less. I do know that FedEx had a significant numer of tail strikes early in the MD11 introduction. Why them and not AA or DAL, KLM or Swissair?
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
From: New York
Something to watch for in the future…
As the remaining MD-11 aircraft, once having been retired by the likes of FedEx, UPS and LH with their highly experienced training departments, filter down to second and third tier operators (such as the one 411A and others on this forum work for), we will likely see a further spike in accident rates.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
From: USofA
So how does FedEx fit into this debacle? They certainly hire experienced avaitors and I assume they have a reasonable trainingg/standards department. I know they probably have more MD11 operations per day than anyone else but I can't get my arms around a definitive problem.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Qatar
I always understood that over 50 degrees it officially is a hot day and all outside work should be adapted to the heat; not so productive. That's why you'll never see a met report over 50..
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Green dont it take out of context. It is not the wolfs nor the forest that scare me. It's the darkness , not able to see, what makes the scenario 
scary.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: 45 yards from a tropical beach
wingview
You are probably correct. That being the case, when we can convince every airport in the world to install the necessary ILS equipment with commensurate pavement length, then convince all the airlines to invest in autoland capable aircraft, then give their crews the requisite additional simulator training every six months, plus on-line recency autolands, we might just see a very small percentage reduction in the accident rate.
Most pilots would approve, now go and talk to the beancounters, then ask 411A!
Finally, just as an example, try to design an autoland procedure for Kathmandu.
You are probably correct. That being the case, when we can convince every airport in the world to install the necessary ILS equipment with commensurate pavement length, then convince all the airlines to invest in autoland capable aircraft, then give their crews the requisite additional simulator training every six months, plus on-line recency autolands, we might just see a very small percentage reduction in the accident rate.
Most pilots would approve, now go and talk to the beancounters, then ask 411A!
Finally, just as an example, try to design an autoland procedure for Kathmandu.
