Lufthansa cargo plane crash
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Now at Home
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...The results indicate, that the airplane touched down normally...
...The German BFU stated, that the airplane bounced after first touch down ...
or what
So on a relatively calm day, facing a very long runway, one of the best trained MD-11 crews landed, bounced twice, and that was enough to cause the aircraft to suffer catastrophic structural failure? I appreciate we haven't got any G-force readings, so impossible to determine how hard they touched down, but still, something doesn't sound quite right.
Is the MD-11, besides being not that easy to land, exceedingly damage intolerant? Or, rather, damage intolerant when subjected to a "hard" landing?
Is the MD-11, besides being not that easy to land, exceedingly damage intolerant? Or, rather, damage intolerant when subjected to a "hard" landing?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Around the World
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heavy G-Loads
According to a guy who had access to the info of the initial readout of the black boxes they had several touchdowns. The first with 2G, second 3G and finally over 4G. No wonder the fuselage broke apart.
Trash du Blanc
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KBHM
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first with 2G, second 3G and finally over 4G. No wonder the fuselage broke apart.
Why did a normal cargo flight land on RWY 33L?
To the poster who quoted the, alleged, G-loads - many thanks. Bit more than just a "hard" landing then.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Both sides of 40W
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If,it was hard on landing... we will have to wait and see how hard is hard! In any case looks like no fire O/B, prior to the landing? But, it does have the characteristics of the Narita accident. With or without A/T hard landings are generaly pilot induced and can be influenced by meteo conditions. But, as far as I can read it was a clear day, hot and a very long runway. Temp. inversion could also be a factor prior to touchdown.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Caribbean
Age: 78
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So on a relatively calm day, facing a very long runway, one of the best trained MD-11 crews landed, bounced twice, and that was enough to cause the aircraft to suffer catastrophic structural failure? I appreciate we haven't got any G-force readings, so impossible to determine how hard they touched down, but still, something doesn't sound quite right.
Is the MD-11, besides being not that easy to land, exceedingly damage intolerant? Or, rather, damage intolerant when subjected to a "hard" landing?
Is the MD-11, besides being not that easy to land, exceedingly damage intolerant? Or, rather, damage intolerant when subjected to a "hard" landing?
As far as I remember, Riyadh is a hot and high altitude airport. I had to reject a few landings which could not be salvaged when the PFs ( f/os, trainee captains )failed to recognise dangerously high sink rates prior to landing.
Temperature inversion is normally not a big factor in botched landings, but a huge on during take offs.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as I remember, Riyadh is a hot and high altitude airport. I had to reject a few landings which could not be salvaged when the PFs ( f/os, trainee captains )failed to recognise dangerously high sink rates prior to landing.
Been there, done that....for many years.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hot and High ?
As far as I remember, Riyadh is a hot and high altitude airport.
You are absolutely correct...RUH in the summertime is not for the unwary.
You are absolutely correct...RUH in the summertime is not for the unwary.
40 deg C on ~2000 feet MSL is "hot an high" airport ??
and should not be used by unwary....?
PS no1. Dubai with sooooo many flights per summer days, even if at ~MSL,
but >50 deg C.....is OK for "unwary pilots" ??
PS no2. In Narita on that day, shall we assume also "hot and high" airport and "unwary" pilots ?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tunisia
Age: 71
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing special about RUH, I flew there for 19 years, 10 on the MD-11 and would say very benign.
When I did MD-11 line training we were lucky enough to fly with the ex CP of EVA, who mentioned that Saudia bought their MD-11's with dual main gear shocks, which was an option. Anybody hear of this?
I saw some firm landings, but no bouncers which seem to be the kiss of death on this thing.
"Dangerously high sink rates" are not endemic to RUH, this is what we get paid for day in and day out.
When I did MD-11 line training we were lucky enough to fly with the ex CP of EVA, who mentioned that Saudia bought their MD-11's with dual main gear shocks, which was an option. Anybody hear of this?
I saw some firm landings, but no bouncers which seem to be the kiss of death on this thing.
"Dangerously high sink rates" are not endemic to RUH, this is what we get paid for day in and day out.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: a shack on a hill
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All you guys who do it every day do not understand that RUH might be tricky for the "unwary", please consider that many LH pilots do not more than 10 to 15 landings per year, include mixed fleet flying, throw in fatigue, and you have a situation where an airport might be a major threatening variable, if it is out of the normal range, and the sandpit with 40+ temps always is. It is so very easy to get into trouble...
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
please consider that many LH pilots do not more than 10 to 15 landings per year, include mixed fleet flying
Still not much, but more than on the other long range fleets.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just knew that 'fatigue' would be brought up by someone.
Lets see, FRA-RUH...yup, sure is a fatiguing sector, alright.
Lets see, FRA-RUH...yup, sure is a fatiguing sector, alright.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: India
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SO let's summerize it:
40 deg C on ~2000 feet MSL is "hot an high" airport ??
and should not be used by unwary....?
PS no1. Dubai with sooooo many flights per summer days, even if at ~MSL,
but >50 deg C.....is OK for "unwary pilots" ??
PS no2. In Narita on that day, shall we assume also "hot and high" airport and "unwary" pilots ?
40 deg C on ~2000 feet MSL is "hot an high" airport ??
and should not be used by unwary....?
PS no1. Dubai with sooooo many flights per summer days, even if at ~MSL,
but >50 deg C.....is OK for "unwary pilots" ??
PS no2. In Narita on that day, shall we assume also "hot and high" airport and "unwary" pilots ?
Guest
Posts: n/a
The flight time FRA-RUH is not very long, but the departure in FRA was in the middle of the night...
PS
one should worry about hot or high or both "hot and high" RWY,
only before T/O.
For Landing the only difference may be longer run...but not limiting factor in this case, Right ?