KLM 737 @t EHAM & Aeroflot 737 @ ENGM taxiway take-off
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Is there any news on the flight# / aircraft involved? I'm asking because my gf flew AMS-VIE on KL1849 with PH-BTI on that particular evening and I'm curious to know if this could have been her flight
The Aviation Herald determined three KLM Boeing 737s taking off in the time on Wednesday (Feb 10th) between 16:30L and 19:30L (15:30-18:30Z), during which runway 36C was used for takeoff:
16:38L: flight KL-1247 to Billund (Denmark), Boeing 737-800 registration PH-BXF
17:38L: flight KL-1933 to Geneva (Switzerland), Boeing 737-800 registration PH-BXM
18:20L: flight KL-1093 to Manchester,EN (UK), Boeing 737-300 registration PH-BTD
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There have been similar problems at LGW with people getting
confused between 28L and 28R, the "Emergency" runway, IIRC?
confused between 28L and 28R, the "Emergency" runway, IIRC?
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LGW events due wip on the main, and the taxyway lighting now has a big kink in it.
Gatwick near-disaster is blamed on aviation body - UK, News - The Independent
Gatwick near-disaster is blamed on aviation body - UK, News - The Independent
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haughtney1... bad taste mate...
In fairness...I should add thats' not my opinion of all KLM pilots..just of the ones I've met
Last edited by haughtney1; 12th Feb 2010 at 12:08.
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I'm wondering about the CVR recordings, most CVR's I know of only have a two hour recording span.
If the recorder was not replaced/read within this timespan this information will have been lost...
Certainly from a human factor angle that would be a costly loss of information.
ifix
If the recorder was not replaced/read within this timespan this information will have been lost...
Certainly from a human factor angle that would be a costly loss of information.
ifix
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Some more info:
Dutch investigators have opened an inquiry after a KLM Boeing 737-300 took off from a taxiway at Amsterdam Schiphol yesterday.
The aircraft, registered PH-BDP, was departing on a service to Warsaw when the incident occurred.
Flight KL1369 was supposed to use runway 36C but instead took off from taxiway B which runs parallel on the eastern side.
A spokeswoman for the Dutch Safety Board states that the incident is being classified as "serious" by the investigators.
The aircraft continue to Warsaw and the crew was interviewed on return, she adds.
KLM lists KL1369's scheduled departure time as 20:20 and the spokesman says the incident took place at 20:36.
Amsterdam Schiphol would have been in darkness at this time. Meteorological data from the airport shows good visibility and weather conditions at the time.
Dutch investigators have opened an inquiry after a KLM Boeing 737-300 took off from a taxiway at Amsterdam Schiphol yesterday.
The aircraft, registered PH-BDP, was departing on a service to Warsaw when the incident occurred.
Flight KL1369 was supposed to use runway 36C but instead took off from taxiway B which runs parallel on the eastern side.
A spokeswoman for the Dutch Safety Board states that the incident is being classified as "serious" by the investigators.
The aircraft continue to Warsaw and the crew was interviewed on return, she adds.
KLM lists KL1369's scheduled departure time as 20:20 and the spokesman says the incident took place at 20:36.
Amsterdam Schiphol would have been in darkness at this time. Meteorological data from the airport shows good visibility and weather conditions at the time.
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If you have taxied south on Bravo then done a 180 and taken off on 36C a million times, and then for once are assigned taxiway Alpha instead... With darkness, snow on the ground and a displaced threshold... I'm not saying it wasn't a major screw up, it obviously was, but I think that I'll try to hold in the schadenfreude a bit until I retire and haven't done something stupid myself!
It's by the way disheartening to read the above opinions about KLM pilots. Although I'm not Dutch myself, I enjoy working there immensely and have a lot of respect for the vast majority of my colleagues. A lot of people think that the Dutch are inherently arrogant, and a lot of people think that pilots are inherently arrogant, so it sort of makes sense, but realize that a lot of what you hear when they are speaking English is their accent. Their direct manner of speaking and clipped vowels makes it sound harsh, but often the message they are trying bring across is not.
It's by the way disheartening to read the above opinions about KLM pilots. Although I'm not Dutch myself, I enjoy working there immensely and have a lot of respect for the vast majority of my colleagues. A lot of people think that the Dutch are inherently arrogant, and a lot of people think that pilots are inherently arrogant, so it sort of makes sense, but realize that a lot of what you hear when they are speaking English is their accent. Their direct manner of speaking and clipped vowels makes it sound harsh, but often the message they are trying bring across is not.
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Somewhat OT, on the Dutch: in my experience the 'impression' given of arrogance is part real arrogance and part forthrightness. A Dutchman expressing himself in English can come across much harsher than if he were saying the same thing in Dutch. Just a cross-cultural thing, ime 
I must confess that I am surprised by the way this thread is going. I have trained and have flown with a fair few Dutch pilots and I have found them to be very pleasant, good fun and pretty sharp too.
I just don't recognise some of the stereotypes being pushed around by others.
Mind you, in fairness, none of my lot had ever been near KLM.
I just don't recognise some of the stereotypes being pushed around by others.
Mind you, in fairness, none of my lot had ever been near KLM.
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They might have noticed it (too late) that they were on the taxiway but was it safer to continue (due to snow, smaller strip etc).
To the KLM/Dutch bashers: Who is telling you it was a (all) Dutch cockpit? Not only Dutch are flying for KLM...
(big chance it was, but that we'll find out when the report is published). Who ever they might be, it should'nt have happend.
To the KLM/Dutch bashers: Who is telling you it was a (all) Dutch cockpit? Not only Dutch are flying for KLM...
(big chance it was, but that we'll find out when the report is published). Who ever they might be, it should'nt have happend.
Wasn't this being picked up by Surface Movement Radar? Or better said:
At SPL they use SMR, when is it being used and does it provide warnings in situations like this?
And does KLM often do intersection takeoff on the 737?
On bigger aircraft you're used to crosscheck the numbers since you're anyway mostly taking full length. If you often use intersections, this technique might slowly slip out.
And re: KLM crew: they are just as professional as most of us I think; bad apples in any company.
At SPL they use SMR, when is it being used and does it provide warnings in situations like this?
And does KLM often do intersection takeoff on the 737?
On bigger aircraft you're used to crosscheck the numbers since you're anyway mostly taking full length. If you often use intersections, this technique might slowly slip out.
And re: KLM crew: they are just as professional as most of us I think; bad apples in any company.
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I have trained and examined many KLM pilots over the last seven years, since AirUK became part of KLM Cityhopper. The vast majority are capable, hard-working and very proud of their company. However, as they are usually the first to admit, their direct approach to life in general and aviation in particular can be interpreted as arrogance.
The most irritating trait to me as a Brit is the attitude that KLM invented commercial aviation. Could BA not be accused of the same attitude though? Let he who is without sin...
The most irritating trait to me as a Brit is the attitude that KLM invented commercial aviation. Could BA not be accused of the same attitude though? Let he who is without sin...
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Haughtney,
That's not very funny
Rockhound
Have just realised that others beat me to it in castigating Haughtney1 for his tasteless remark. The tastelessness has absolutely nothing to do with nationality.
Rockhound
That's not very funny
Rockhound
Have just realised that others beat me to it in castigating Haughtney1 for his tasteless remark. The tastelessness has absolutely nothing to do with nationality.
Rockhound
I don't know where this notion of Dutch people being arrogant comes from? I have met many in my time and have found them all to be courteous and pleasant people.
Give me a Dutch city (e.g. Maastrict) on a Summer Saturday night over any UK city complete with its fighting yobs and paraletic women!
Give me a Dutch city (e.g. Maastrict) on a Summer Saturday night over any UK city complete with its fighting yobs and paraletic women!
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There are always nice Dutch people around and there are always the 
amongst them. I am half Dutch and the attitude of some of my relatives get on my nerves all the time. In a suburb in AKL where an aunt lives, the Dutch community wants everything their way ( because of Tasman? ), edam, clogs, mini windmills at the Sunday market but when someone suggested putting a Chinese arch as part of a scheme setting up a small Chinatown ( a big Chinese population there ) there were deafening protests from mostly Kiwis of Dutch extract who opine that that will be the end of the Dutch world! Really xenophobic!
Coming back to this KLM B737 incident, night time departures and tendency to rush could have contributed to it. Fatigue could be a factor but I guess KLM pilot schedules are fairly relaxed compared to those of Easy and Ryan.
amongst them. I am half Dutch and the attitude of some of my relatives get on my nerves all the time. In a suburb in AKL where an aunt lives, the Dutch community wants everything their way ( because of Tasman? ), edam, clogs, mini windmills at the Sunday market but when someone suggested putting a Chinese arch as part of a scheme setting up a small Chinatown ( a big Chinese population there ) there were deafening protests from mostly Kiwis of Dutch extract who opine that that will be the end of the Dutch world! Really xenophobic!Coming back to this KLM B737 incident, night time departures and tendency to rush could have contributed to it. Fatigue could be a factor but I guess KLM pilot schedules are fairly relaxed compared to those of Easy and Ryan.
