KLM 737 @t EHAM & Aeroflot 737 @ ENGM taxiway take-off
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between FL280 and FL410
Age: 56
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At AMS taxiing on the outer tracks ( B) should be done anti-clockwise
Taxiing inner tracks ( A) should be done clockwise
All this regardless departing or arriving
Correct me if i'm wrong
Taxiing inner tracks ( A) should be done clockwise
All this regardless departing or arriving
Correct me if i'm wrong
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Durham
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
juvenile generalisations.
"In the company I work for I have many Dutch colleagues, in general I find them an absolute pleasure to work with, very professional, and they usually speak better English than I do, and I am supposedly a native speaker."
I agree. How can ya make sweeping generalis(z)ations about people just because they come from a place within a political boundary?
It is certainly true that people from places share a common culture...the Swiss can be aloof...the Germans can be pedantic...the Austrians can be warm hearted....the French are the French..etc etc
Some of the comments made on here belong in a kindergarten!
Cut the prejudice please!
I agree. How can ya make sweeping generalis(z)ations about people just because they come from a place within a political boundary?
It is certainly true that people from places share a common culture...the Swiss can be aloof...the Germans can be pedantic...the Austrians can be warm hearted....the French are the French..etc etc
Some of the comments made on here belong in a kindergarten!
Cut the prejudice please!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: On an aeroplane
Age: 54
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All the sky blue aircraft got airborne first that night..........and that is wrong
Well I was there and that is what I heard on the R/T... all 3 1/2 hours of it. My post flight report feedback indicated that something similar had happened the year before in snow. Not that we can do much about it.
I have also heard a colleague of mine state that a request for 18C was met with "negative wrong coloured tail." Why feel the need to put such a negative connotation on a reply?
English in aviation is to be used as a tool not a some callow means to score points. Flightcrew have a right to request a particular runway. A simple "negative unable 18C" still gets the message across.
While I do appreciate the logistics of the operation into EHAM for some airlines operating on to the runway at Haarlem has significant impact on their schedule, and everything that stems from that. And before this gets off track I am aware that KLM operate on to the runway as well so there is no favouritism in that regard. But in percentage terms some airlines regardless of whether it is Southerly operation or Northerly operation operate 90+% 18R/36L either for landing and takeoff.
Well I was there and that is what I heard on the R/T... all 3 1/2 hours of it. My post flight report feedback indicated that something similar had happened the year before in snow. Not that we can do much about it.
I have also heard a colleague of mine state that a request for 18C was met with "negative wrong coloured tail." Why feel the need to put such a negative connotation on a reply?
English in aviation is to be used as a tool not a some callow means to score points. Flightcrew have a right to request a particular runway. A simple "negative unable 18C" still gets the message across.
While I do appreciate the logistics of the operation into EHAM for some airlines operating on to the runway at Haarlem has significant impact on their schedule, and everything that stems from that. And before this gets off track I am aware that KLM operate on to the runway as well so there is no favouritism in that regard. But in percentage terms some airlines regardless of whether it is Southerly operation or Northerly operation operate 90+% 18R/36L either for landing and takeoff.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: On an aeroplane
Age: 54
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At AMS taxiing on the outer tracks ( B) should be done anti-clockwise
Taxiing inner tracks ( A) should be done clockwise
All this regardless departing or arriving
Correct me if i'm wrong
So to summarise if you drive on the right................
Taxiing inner tracks ( A) should be done clockwise
All this regardless departing or arriving
Correct me if i'm wrong
So to summarise if you drive on the right................
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Safewing, I don't doubt what you say, and I have seen similar things happen in other countries with other carriers.
Very often what happens is that the operations dept has a back door into the start up coordinator , or knows some little trick, that gets his bundle of aircraft in ahead of everyone elses.
Fair? no , Frustrating ? yes, but if they keep whatever the little "secret" is to themselves what to do.
Best solution is to do what one of my ex colleagues in BM was reputed to do when their was big delays @ LHR.
Somewhere in the Bovingdon hold his dulcet tones could be heard asking to be put in the start sequence for his next flight.
Well, his doors WERE closed ,as they often asked
Very often what happens is that the operations dept has a back door into the start up coordinator , or knows some little trick, that gets his bundle of aircraft in ahead of everyone elses.
Fair? no , Frustrating ? yes, but if they keep whatever the little "secret" is to themselves what to do.
Best solution is to do what one of my ex colleagues in BM was reputed to do when their was big delays @ LHR.
Somewhere in the Bovingdon hold his dulcet tones could be heard asking to be put in the start sequence for his next flight.
Well, his doors WERE closed ,as they often asked
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"negative wrong coloured tail."
As for de-icing, well that is truly smoke and mirrors. This year has worked better than last but one's place in the queue appears to be a more closely guarded secret than a masonic lodge membership list. Even if you fly Blue.
And I can't possibly see how it's ATC's "fault" when an aircraft departs from a taxiway when LVP's are not in force. Many times I have been cleared well before a runway with something like "...via Whisky 8, Line up, cleared take off. Toodle loo." And why not.
But the interesting bit will be when we find out what happened for these guys to believe to they were on a runway. They are the only ones with the information which will allow the full story to be put together.
PM
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is called humour. It implies that you weren't getting your preferred runway for nationalistic reasons rather than the real one which was your routing. I think that's amusing.
Now, for something completely different....ATC at Schipol and the Nehterlands generally - and me beeing german hate to say that (the Dutch block my Autobahn with their Caravans- uuuuggh) - is probably the best in the world, at least the best I have experienced. Usually quick, efficient, helpful and with a tad of humour.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RWY allocation Schiphol
The departure runway you'll get can be heard on amsterdam info. 131,350 (ATC operational information).
No difference is made by tail color.
It depends on the SID you get combined with runway's use.
Off course sometimes you get 36L with a right turn, simply because 36C is not in use for departures.
For flights in the direction of northern europe with 36L and 36C in use you can normally expect 36L because the total traffic flow to the east and south is greater then the flow to the west. In these cases a right turn from 36L is possible but pretty far north (SPY1V at 11AMS right).
Normally in outbound peaks (evening peak) queue's for east and south departures are common. this is why departures to the north and north east are also from the 36L.
Departure runway is never negotiable. It simply depends on SID/ runway's in use.
Upon arrival when traffic flow allows ATC sometimes deviates from the 131.35 arrival/rwy combinations.
And de-icing procedures? the queue is made according reporting ready on snowdesk. Sometimes aircraft with a slot get prio.
Sometimes connection critical blue flights (hub-hub) get priority but ONLY over other blue tails. NOT over foreign airlines!
People who may have been at EHAM during the past snow periods must have heard these things on snowdesk.
No difference is made by tail color.
It depends on the SID you get combined with runway's use.
Off course sometimes you get 36L with a right turn, simply because 36C is not in use for departures.
For flights in the direction of northern europe with 36L and 36C in use you can normally expect 36L because the total traffic flow to the east and south is greater then the flow to the west. In these cases a right turn from 36L is possible but pretty far north (SPY1V at 11AMS right).
Normally in outbound peaks (evening peak) queue's for east and south departures are common. this is why departures to the north and north east are also from the 36L.
Departure runway is never negotiable. It simply depends on SID/ runway's in use.
Upon arrival when traffic flow allows ATC sometimes deviates from the 131.35 arrival/rwy combinations.
And de-icing procedures? the queue is made according reporting ready on snowdesk. Sometimes aircraft with a slot get prio.
Sometimes connection critical blue flights (hub-hub) get priority but ONLY over other blue tails. NOT over foreign airlines!
People who may have been at EHAM during the past snow periods must have heard these things on snowdesk.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ ManaAdaSystem
Funny, three days ago I turned to the right after departure.
Runway? 36L.
Yes, when AMS is back to single runway ops ( for departure) they don't stop Eastbound traffic
Funny, three days ago I turned to the right after departure.
Runway? 36L.
Yes, when AMS is back to single runway ops ( for departure) they don't stop Eastbound traffic
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't worry guys, pilots always explain away things they are to lazy to find out for themselves. I stopped worrying about it and now I just smile when a colleague goes on and on about being allocated 18R/36L coming and going WEST.
And as stated earlier by others, how can some of you blame ATC at this stage, the TO clearance might have been given at a far earlier stage than lining up.
And as stated earlier by others, how can some of you blame ATC at this stage, the TO clearance might have been given at a far earlier stage than lining up.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between FL280 and FL410
Age: 56
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At AMS taxiing on the outer tracks ( B) should be done anti-clockwise
Taxiing inner tracks ( A) should be done clockwise
All this regardless departing or arriving
Correct me if i'm wrong
So to summarise if you drive on the right................
Correct , why did I use so much words............
Taxiing inner tracks ( A) should be done clockwise
All this regardless departing or arriving
Correct me if i'm wrong
So to summarise if you drive on the right................
Correct , why did I use so much words............
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Line up
When you line up,you really need to be focused on:
-approach clear
-runway clear
-final silent check of config
-right runway
-quick self-review of actions for RTO/engine failure @ V1
NOT
SOP's and checklists.
I believe some companies have their pilots performing checklists and all kinds of last minute items as they line up.Pilots might get focused on these items at the expense of the big picture.We were too busy selecting TA/RA,switching center pumps off,advising cabin and reading checklist to notice it was the wrong runway.Problem starts when the before takeoff checklist has "line-up" items like transponder or even takeoff clearance-received etc.The poor pilot,desperate not to contravene the SOP's and think for himself/herself,wont read the checklist PRIOR to line-up because the book says dont start a checklist until you can action all the items.
Would be interested to know if KLM completes the checklist before line-up or not?Is there a "below the line" still?Line-up should be quiet and unhurried,no talking just calm reflection and attention.
-approach clear
-runway clear
-final silent check of config
-right runway
-quick self-review of actions for RTO/engine failure @ V1
NOT
SOP's and checklists.
I believe some companies have their pilots performing checklists and all kinds of last minute items as they line up.Pilots might get focused on these items at the expense of the big picture.We were too busy selecting TA/RA,switching center pumps off,advising cabin and reading checklist to notice it was the wrong runway.Problem starts when the before takeoff checklist has "line-up" items like transponder or even takeoff clearance-received etc.The poor pilot,desperate not to contravene the SOP's and think for himself/herself,wont read the checklist PRIOR to line-up because the book says dont start a checklist until you can action all the items.
Would be interested to know if KLM completes the checklist before line-up or not?Is there a "below the line" still?Line-up should be quiet and unhurried,no talking just calm reflection and attention.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Dutch have the best sense of humour in Europe (apart from us Brits).
"Arrogance" is usually the accusation made by those who are the victims of a sharp wit!
If a pilot accuses a large body of their colleagues as arrogant (in this case by grouping them conveniently into a national group), it is worth asking "Why are so many of my workmates coming across to me as insensitively assertive?"
"Arrogance" is usually the accusation made by those who are the victims of a sharp wit!
If a pilot accuses a large body of their colleagues as arrogant (in this case by grouping them conveniently into a national group), it is worth asking "Why are so many of my workmates coming across to me as insensitively assertive?"
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks to me like you've given us a (short) checklist that refers to two other checklists...
"Arrogance" is usually the accusation made by those who are the victims of a sharp wit!
If a pilot accuses a large body of their colleagues as arrogant (in this case by grouping them conveniently into a national group), it is worth asking "Why are so many of my workmates coming across to me as insensitively assertive?"
If a pilot accuses a large body of their colleagues as arrogant (in this case by grouping them conveniently into a national group), it is worth asking "Why are so many of my workmates coming across to me as insensitively assertive?"
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would be interested to know if KLM completes the checklist before line-up or not?
PM
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny, I thought that KLM was one of those airlines using their own checklists and procedures. On all their AC except the A330. Their checklists are also read-and-do if I am not mistaken. Happy to be corrected...