United GRU-ORD Divert to MIA to Offload Purser
Join Date: Nov 2005
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OK, OK, tongue firmly planted in cheek here....
Do you remember when you first learned to drive with Dad/Grandad? I'm old enough to not know what 'Drivers' Ed is. I lived in a ranch in California, and was allowed to drive to school and back at age 14.5....
Best advice I EVER got about driving was from Grandad (a U.S.Marshall, and was at that time Sheriff of the county we lived in). Advice was "Beware of old men in hats, and old ladies with blue hair".... I swear, to this day, that is good advice. I started laughing as he told me, because, at the time he told me, he was wearing his cowboy hat.
Fast forward to PriFly. Naval Instructor's best ever advice; "Beware short Captains with big watches"..... You know the rest.
After 37 years and 24K+ hours aloft, was the most important thing I ever learned about flying.
BTW, I am 5' 10" and never wore more than a 'plain jane' small Casio or Timex.
Do you remember when you first learned to drive with Dad/Grandad? I'm old enough to not know what 'Drivers' Ed is. I lived in a ranch in California, and was allowed to drive to school and back at age 14.5....
Best advice I EVER got about driving was from Grandad (a U.S.Marshall, and was at that time Sheriff of the county we lived in). Advice was "Beware of old men in hats, and old ladies with blue hair".... I swear, to this day, that is good advice. I started laughing as he told me, because, at the time he told me, he was wearing his cowboy hat.
Fast forward to PriFly. Naval Instructor's best ever advice; "Beware short Captains with big watches"..... You know the rest.
After 37 years and 24K+ hours aloft, was the most important thing I ever learned about flying.
BTW, I am 5' 10" and never wore more than a 'plain jane' small Casio or Timex.
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I spent a long time........
@Lamyna Flo
Yes , I really do understand irony and would say that it is my default state and adore many kinds of comedy ( Monty Python being one but not exclusively).
Irony does however need at least a clue to indicate that the author is not serious.
Can you please point out where this is in the post we are discussing ?
Yes , I really do understand irony and would say that it is my default state and adore many kinds of comedy ( Monty Python being one but not exclusively).
Irony does however need at least a clue to indicate that the author is not serious.
Can you please point out where this is in the post we are discussing ?
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Can you please point out where this is in the post we are discussing ?
To the many, many sensible and decent captains on the block, my apologies for writing this. But I truly thought that commercial aviation in the 21st Century was well and truly past these issues…
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Quote:
There seem to be a surprising number of respondents who feel total unrestrained powers are/should be in order
They absolutely are, for the Captain, whilst airbourne, make no mistake.
The regulatory authorities have so said, in air navigation regulations.
However, they are subject to critical review, afterwords.
And afterwords, better have ducks lined up, properly.
No?
Expect repercussions.
Again...
Quote:
There seem to be a surprising number of respondents who feel total unrestrained powers are/should be in order.
Actually, Alpine Skier, you clearly are not an airline Captain, therefore, your comments are totally without merit.
Why am I not surprised?
Case closed.
There seem to be a surprising number of respondents who feel total unrestrained powers are/should be in order
They absolutely are, for the Captain, whilst airbourne, make no mistake.
The regulatory authorities have so said, in air navigation regulations.
However, they are subject to critical review, afterwords.
And afterwords, better have ducks lined up, properly.
No?
Expect repercussions.
Again...
Quote:
There seem to be a surprising number of respondents who feel total unrestrained powers are/should be in order.
Actually, Alpine Skier, you clearly are not an airline Captain, therefore, your comments are totally without merit.
Why am I not surprised?
Case closed.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Mutt - it matters not who was 'operating' - the point I was making that there can be no question of merely 'considering' a diversion with a drunk, brawling crew and by implication not doing it. The flight had become illegal, having insufficient or incapable crew. It could not continue unless it was a matter of extreme urgency. There appears to be zero correlation with this bizarre event.
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Diverting a fligth to offload someone that has become a danger to the flight is one thing. But diverting the flight to offload the purser for "disrespecting" the captain by shoving paperwork underneat the door is something quite different.
As has been said before, I hope there is more to this story that we do not know, because if there isn't, it is truly a pathetic display of "authority"
As has been said before, I hope there is more to this story that we do not know, because if there isn't, it is truly a pathetic display of "authority"
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Of course there is a question wether to divert to or not when you fly a longhaul aircraft and diversion can be as close as destination on extended overwater flights. I looked at your profile BOAC and saw that you fly 737's so I can leave give your comments the credit they deserve on the subject. (Sounds familiar eh, types current on added on profile for BOAC).
Registered User **
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This is why I love Freight!!! I feel like a lesser person for reading this drama. My bet the "drama queen" was probably the captain just to perpetuate this ****e.
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Non USA pilots
the thing most of you foreign pilots dont understand is that we do not have young subservient cabin crew at the american legacy carriers. We cant even call them 'cabin crew' -they are "Flight Attendants!" At Delta we have 500+ over 70yrs old. United is worse. And the old obnoxious ones are on these international flights. It's not hard to figure out why Singapore, Cathay, etc are always the favorites among passengers. -I'm afraid to even ask our flight attendants for a coffee. Thank god there are still captains who will stand up to them (and their cats)!
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These are the FACTS!!!
I was a crew member on this flight. Some of your postings are quite amusing while some are not only neanderthal in thought but scarey in reality. FYI: United Airlines is backing the Purser (a female...NOT a male) 110% as are crew (flight attendants) and the other 2 pilots on the flight. The captain did not request but demanded the CREW DECS not the GEN DECS. The Purser had completed the Gen Decs immediately after take off and passed them to the cockpit when the "bunkie" came out for his break. In fact the "bunkie" had stated that this had been the longest 4 day trip of his career. An example of what he and fellow F/O had to deal with was, they could not call this captain by his name but had to address as "Sir" or "Captain." She asked if she could send them up to the cockpit with the first round of meals (they were being cooked at the time) as she was helping in another cabin and also it was one less time to open cockpit door. Figuring we still had over 10 hours of flight time left and crew decs. are only used by us after landing to go through customs and take approx. 30 seconds to fill out...providing you can read! The captain demanded them right then. She was gathering them up to give to them when he called again (less than 1 minute after the last exchange) and screamed he wanted them NOW!! She said she was getting them. She slide them under the door and timed that they were not picked up by anyone in the cockpit for 37 minutes. She then assisted with security for 2 cockpit bathroom breaks later in the flight w/o problem and no interaction or conversation with the captain. Then while on her break, 6 hours later she was notified that the plane was landing in Miami in 40 minutes and she was being removed. The Customs Agents that met the flight were stunned that the captain diverted because he didn't get his crew decs 30 minutes after take off. We (the crew) heard the lead agent directly ask the captain, "if he realized the seriousness of landing the aircraft for such an "inane reason" and "if he couldn't have possibly handled this situation with a better solution." The captain lost it and said the Purser was looking at jail time. Well, the captain made a GRAVE error. He has been relieved of his position at United Airlines. They will NEVER trust him with a multimillion dollar aircraft and passengers again....ever. His license has been suspended by the FAA, pending further investagation. While he might have temporairly relieved the Purser of her duties, he relieved himself permanetly of his career. The Purser has not only her position, but the support of United Airlines, fellow crew members (flight attendants & pilots alike) as well as industry wide flight attendants and pilots.To those of you pilots who think that teamwork approach is a waste of time and that you should be treated like "Kings," are not only over indulged with ego but out of touch and dangerous. To begin with, respect is earned...not a given, the days of thinking fellow crew members are below you are OVER...deal with it. You're a dime a dozen...you're no more special than John Doe on the street. This Purser was not a safety threat, no FARS were violated. She has flown for 30+ years with United and is known for a spotless reputation and top notch in her position. This was a case of a Captain who wasn't fit to fly. This was his first trip back from a 4 month leave for knee surgery. He had a pronounced limp. He was more of a threat to this flight than anyone. Makes one wonder if he might have been "under the influence" while flying...one thing is for sure ...he was not psychologically or physically stable.If you still have questions email me. but deal in fact...not rumor or wishful thinking.
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You bet case closed...the captains case is closed and he lost. Looks like YOUR opinion is moot as are your attutudes and expectations.
411a is an idiot and dangerous!!!
411a seems to think more of himself than anyone and is his own biggest fan. His sense of self importance is as bizarre as the United captain. I am an airline person and captains or any other pilot with this attitude should be grounded for life! Ego's like his get people killed...
Says who??? Says the FAA!
"We are, they ain't." What are you, one of the Clampetts??
We, the crew told the Purser that we indeed wanted to walk off with her for several reason. Support, loyalty and we did not feel safe with a captain who made such a poor judgement call and was displaying such erratic behavior. Thanks to our Purser who displayed concern for our welfare and showed us what professionalism truly is, she asked us to continue on to ORD as the plane had to get there, the passengers needed to get there and she did not want us to suffer any potential negative repercussions. She was concerned about the passengers and crew alike...unlike the captain, who basically needed to feed his ego. Hope he enjoyed it as it cost him his career!!
411a is an idiot and dangerous!!!
411a seems to think more of himself than anyone and is his own biggest fan. His sense of self importance is as bizarre as the United captain. I am an airline person and captains or any other pilot with this attitude should be grounded for life! Ego's like his get people killed...
Says who??? Says the FAA!
"We are, they ain't." What are you, one of the Clampetts??
We, the crew told the Purser that we indeed wanted to walk off with her for several reason. Support, loyalty and we did not feel safe with a captain who made such a poor judgement call and was displaying such erratic behavior. Thanks to our Purser who displayed concern for our welfare and showed us what professionalism truly is, she asked us to continue on to ORD as the plane had to get there, the passengers needed to get there and she did not want us to suffer any potential negative repercussions. She was concerned about the passengers and crew alike...unlike the captain, who basically needed to feed his ego. Hope he enjoyed it as it cost him his career!!