Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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Links to US Airways 1549 Crew CBS interview
Part 1 "I was sure I could do it"
"I Was Sure I Could Do It" Video - CBSNews.com
Part 2 Saving 155 lives
Saving 155 Lives Video - CBSNews.com
Part 3 The Reunion
An Emotional Reunion Video - CBSNews.com
"I Was Sure I Could Do It" Video - CBSNews.com
Part 2 Saving 155 lives
Saving 155 Lives Video - CBSNews.com
Part 3 The Reunion
An Emotional Reunion Video - CBSNews.com
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I agree with Fincaptain..
"I listened to the interview and what struck me most was the lack of we".
This was my thought too. But most of this is probably rehearsed by US-Air PR department..
WeŽll see!
This was my thought too. But most of this is probably rehearsed by US-Air PR department..
WeŽll see!
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I hope this hasn't been posted before.
AWE1549 US AIRWAYS RADIUS OF "GLIDE" WITHIN LAGUARDIA AND TETERBORO. "Glide" down to 300 ft ASL from 2000 ft ASL turn point. 17.77km "glide".
Airports near markers 3 and 5.
.
AWE1549 US AIRWAYS RADIUS OF "GLIDE" WITHIN LAGUARDIA AND TETERBORO. "Glide" down to 300 ft ASL from 2000 ft ASL turn point. 17.77km "glide".
Airports near markers 3 and 5.
.
Last edited by alph2z; 9th Feb 2009 at 19:00.
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Keys to NYC
The crew of 1549 received keys to New York City today.
According to reports, "During the event with the mayor, Sullenberger emphasized that while he's gotten a lot of the credit for the emergency landing, it was a team effort, and he praised the crew, passengers and first responders."
According to reports, "During the event with the mayor, Sullenberger emphasized that while he's gotten a lot of the credit for the emergency landing, it was a team effort, and he praised the crew, passengers and first responders."
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alph2z - From your point showing 1200' and 194 kts 4.5 n.m. to RWY 13 at LGA.
Airbus supposedly states you can glide 2.5-2.7 n.m. per thousand feet. Boeing gives about 3 n.m. per thousand.
Using that as an example you could go 3.6 n.m.'s, no wind, from the 1200'/194 kts position. Unfortunately the runway's 4.5 nm away.
It's interesting to see if they could have made it, but even if they'd started at the 2000'/202 kts position it's exactly 6 n.m. to RWY 13, which given the glide information provided would be the exact distance required to make the runway.
That's not considering wind or the loss in distance made good due to the 90 degrees of heading change needed to make LGA Rwy 13.
Airbus supposedly states you can glide 2.5-2.7 n.m. per thousand feet. Boeing gives about 3 n.m. per thousand.
Using that as an example you could go 3.6 n.m.'s, no wind, from the 1200'/194 kts position. Unfortunately the runway's 4.5 nm away.
It's interesting to see if they could have made it, but even if they'd started at the 2000'/202 kts position it's exactly 6 n.m. to RWY 13, which given the glide information provided would be the exact distance required to make the runway.
That's not considering wind or the loss in distance made good due to the 90 degrees of heading change needed to make LGA Rwy 13.
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fascinating.
the gliding distance chart above is fascinating...from the 1600' spot, it would seem that a modified straight in to runway 24 at TEB might have been possible...one could follow interstate 80 (freeway) and land there if miscalculations...cutting short the half circle on I80.
one must always ask of the sure thing...hudson was the sure thing...this chart/diagram may be wrong...funny how after the 1200 foot mark, it goes up to 1300 feet!!!!!!!!!
oh well
one must always ask of the sure thing...hudson was the sure thing...this chart/diagram may be wrong...funny how after the 1200 foot mark, it goes up to 1300 feet!!!!!!!!!
oh well
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Since we appear to be about to get into another "could they have made it to a runway" discussion, has anyone else noticed that the radar-reported positions of the aircraft are wrong? The video of the splashdown from the camera on the west bank clearly shows them coming down upstream of the Intrepid, which comes into view some seconds later as they drift down the current. But at this point the radar plot shows them somewhere between 400 and 300 ft up, suggesting a touchdown about a mile further on.
My point is that the achievable glide range was less than the radar plot suggests.
Superb job by all involved!
My point is that the achievable glide range was less than the radar plot suggests.
Superb job by all involved!
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From his 1300 ft position, there is no way he makes TEB without some really serious turns, which will cost altitude. Maybe he could make LGA IF he has RWY 13, which he did not. They had shut down departures on RWY 4, but I did not hear any request from ATC to stop arrivals, so RWY 31 was still being used. Even if they gave him RWY 13, he still has to make another 90 degree turn, fly over some of the highest terrain in Manhattan, the Tri Borough Bridge, the Northeast Rail Corridor bridge, drop his gear, and hit a 7,000' runway dead on. If he comes up short and lands in the East River, the currents at that point of the river are some of the worst you can encounter. And there are no ferries in the area. His decision was by far the smartest and lowest risk possible. 2nd guessing what he did makes no sense at all, because all of the other choices were much higher risk.
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atc doesn't give you a runway...YOU TAKE IT
I've seen too many posts about atc giving someone a runway...clearing someone for that runway
I remind you all that the FAR's say that an aircraft in distress has the right of way over all other aircraft.
YOU take the runway YOU need when YOU are in trouble...letting ATC know your choice makes it easier for them to send others around or delay takeoff
I remind you all that the FAR's say that an aircraft in distress has the right of way over all other aircraft.
YOU take the runway YOU need when YOU are in trouble...letting ATC know your choice makes it easier for them to send others around or delay takeoff
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airnav
airnav.com has a method of getting approach plates for TEB...there is a VOR24 apch and an ILS 6 apch that might prove interesting...of course the ILS is for runway 6, but it shows obstacles along the centerline of 6/24...so too the VOR apch
now, some clever guy might superimpose it on the above glide chart for some interesting results.
now, some clever guy might superimpose it on the above glide chart for some interesting results.
Bottom line on glide: Making either LGA or TEB would have been an "experiment" with no bailout option if things began to look bad at 500 feet and at least 155 lives at stake, not counting unfortunate souls beneath the glide path (or lack thereof).
And would have ended in a touchdown with zero reverse thrust available (and maybe no spoilers/speedbrakes) on not especially long runways with perhaps more than normal speed and less than normal flaps. (Someone will haul out the book here and 'prove' that a 320 can stop in x-many feet with no reverse. Fine. Willing to bet your life?)
Bottom line on "heroes": The crew were simply doing their jobs, competently.
But after a decade of extremely public incompetence in many walks of life, people simply doing their jobs competently looks pretty heroic.
And would have ended in a touchdown with zero reverse thrust available (and maybe no spoilers/speedbrakes) on not especially long runways with perhaps more than normal speed and less than normal flaps. (Someone will haul out the book here and 'prove' that a 320 can stop in x-many feet with no reverse. Fine. Willing to bet your life?)
Bottom line on "heroes": The crew were simply doing their jobs, competently.
But after a decade of extremely public incompetence in many walks of life, people simply doing their jobs competently looks pretty heroic.
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alph2z - From your point showing 1200' and 194 kts 4.5 n.m. to RWY 13 at LGA.
Airbus supposedly states you can glide 2.5-2.7 n.m. per thousand feet. Boeing gives about 3 n.m. per thousand.
Using that as an example you could go 3.6 n.m.'s, no wind, from the 1200'/194 kts position. Unfortunately the runway's 4.5 nm away.
It's interesting to see if they could have made it, but even if they'd started at the 2000'/202 kts position it's exactly 6 n.m. to RWY 13, which given the glide information provided would be the exact distance required to make the runway.
That's not considering wind or the loss in distance made good due to the 90 degrees of heading change needed to make LGA Rwy 13.
Airbus supposedly states you can glide 2.5-2.7 n.m. per thousand feet. Boeing gives about 3 n.m. per thousand.
Using that as an example you could go 3.6 n.m.'s, no wind, from the 1200'/194 kts position. Unfortunately the runway's 4.5 nm away.
It's interesting to see if they could have made it, but even if they'd started at the 2000'/202 kts position it's exactly 6 n.m. to RWY 13, which given the glide information provided would be the exact distance required to make the runway.
That's not considering wind or the loss in distance made good due to the 90 degrees of heading change needed to make LGA Rwy 13.
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I hope this hasn't been posted before
AWE1549 US AIRWAYS RADIUS OF "GLIDE" WITHIN LAGUARDIA AND TETERBORO
AWE1549 US AIRWAYS RADIUS OF "GLIDE" WITHIN LAGUARDIA AND TETERBORO
Nobody has yet ventured to suggest quite "how" the crew could have made a successful landing there, "what training / procedures / drills" they had to do so, or "why" they would have seriously considered it
NoD
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some of the stuff you read
reverse thrust would not be needed for a landing at either TEB or LGA...indeed, the great majority of stopping power on a dry runway is wheel brakes.
I recall doing power off glides in simulator training and landing on runway 33 at DCA.
As far as bailout options for going to TEB, interstate 80 approximates a left base all the way to the runway and could be used for landing.
This all doesn't mean that the hudson wasn't a good option...but it should make us all aware that we may have to make a tough decision and not to sit to dumb fat and happy all the time.
By the way, one could land gear up at TEB if the glide didn't permit gear extension.
I recall doing power off glides in simulator training and landing on runway 33 at DCA.
As far as bailout options for going to TEB, interstate 80 approximates a left base all the way to the runway and could be used for landing.
This all doesn't mean that the hudson wasn't a good option...but it should make us all aware that we may have to make a tough decision and not to sit to dumb fat and happy all the time.
By the way, one could land gear up at TEB if the glide didn't permit gear extension.
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Interesting 60 minutes to a certain extent
I was happy to watch 60 minutes but to a certain extent I felt the personal stories (passengers, flight attendents) were more interesting than the 'technical account' of the landing. I think that the only two things that are now confirmed from the pilot from his account is that he turned on the APU (I remember a little debate on this in earlier parts of this thread) and that he did say the mayday mayday mayday. The rest was the usual heroic accounts that TV programs love to make for us. I really disliked the woman doing the interview and as others have said earlier, who knows how this thing was edited !
I think the next valuable step would be a "technical" interview of Sully and his copilot in a serious aviation mag, with real questions... Could that happen soon ? Even not being a pro, I would love to read it.
KS
I think the next valuable step would be a "technical" interview of Sully and his copilot in a serious aviation mag, with real questions... Could that happen soon ? Even not being a pro, I would love to read it.
KS
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Sullenberger, Skiles, & crew were on NBC Nightly News tonight; and Sully was explicitly crediting the whole crew with the success of the mission. No absence of "we" in this interview.
And while I have no great love affair with NBC, I thought they handled the story much more credibly than did Katie and the CBS "60 Minutes" gang.
And while I have no great love affair with NBC, I thought they handled the story much more credibly than did Katie and the CBS "60 Minutes" gang.
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I have no belief Sully didn't look at landing downwind at LGA but from his view it was too risky so took the Hudon river. He saved himself and 154 other people by doing what he did. Plan 2 may have cost them their lives.
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NigelOnDraft - Nobody has yet ventured to suggest quite "how" the crew could have made a successful landing there, "what training / procedures / drills" they had to do so, or "why" they would have seriously considered it.
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How? Exactly how they reached the runway, fly/glide there. In this case they could have extended the gear on short final if they had enough energy.
What training/procedures/drills they had to do? Same as on every other landing - aimpoint, airspeed, drag management. Dead stick landings have gotten so routinue, and boring, that it's been a long time since anyone's been interested in doing one with leftover simulator time.
Why? Walk away vs. relying on ferry boats.
Unfortunately at 1530 the highways were starting to fill with afternoon traffic. It will be interesting to see if CA Sullenberger mentions traffic on the highways reducing that as an option.
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How? Exactly how they reached the runway, fly/glide there. In this case they could have extended the gear on short final if they had enough energy.
What training/procedures/drills they had to do? Same as on every other landing - aimpoint, airspeed, drag management. Dead stick landings have gotten so routinue, and boring, that it's been a long time since anyone's been interested in doing one with leftover simulator time.
Why? Walk away vs. relying on ferry boats.
Unfortunately at 1530 the highways were starting to fill with afternoon traffic. It will be interesting to see if CA Sullenberger mentions traffic on the highways reducing that as an option.
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60 Minutes: The aft F/As statement that a Pax opened one of the aft doors (even though she said not to) was interesting. The pax did not assess the exit, yet just opened the door. Water then started into the aft cabin, and they could not shut the door (no surprise there). This is another item for me to think about.
Teterboro: I operated out of TEB for 3 years before going to an airline. A small error in glidepath while gliding into TEB would be...well...not good at all.
Geese: I see Geese in a formation of 30+ often during the flyway months (fall and spring). I would not be surprised to learn that the formation that day had 50+ Geese. If I see this while flying, I will more than likely make a PIREP...something I might not have done previously.
Teterboro: I operated out of TEB for 3 years before going to an airline. A small error in glidepath while gliding into TEB would be...well...not good at all.
Geese: I see Geese in a formation of 30+ often during the flyway months (fall and spring). I would not be surprised to learn that the formation that day had 50+ Geese. If I see this while flying, I will more than likely make a PIREP...something I might not have done previously.