BA038 Crew get BA safety Medal
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Firstly, I have the greatest of respect for all the crew of the BA38 and especially wish the Captain all the very best in his future career - this is in no way to be interpreted as in any way as a slur on him.
Your comments have no logic - the logical conclusion of what you have just said is that a safety conscious company, with history of flight safety issues should employ people with crashes/incidents in their flying history.
It seems an eminently sensible corporate policy to exclude such people, and the CV stage would be the place to do this. Corporate policy is not there to say things like "No pilots with an incident/accident or accident in their history shall be employed, except for those whom other pilots think are good eggs." The lawyers would laugh themselves all the way to the bank.
what a joke,kal turning someone down on safety concerns.how quickly they forget the DL report
It seems an eminently sensible corporate policy to exclude such people, and the CV stage would be the place to do this. Corporate policy is not there to say things like "No pilots with an incident/accident or accident in their history shall be employed, except for those whom other pilots think are good eggs." The lawyers would laugh themselves all the way to the bank.
except for those whom other pilots think are good eggs
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It seems an eminently sensible corporate policy to exclude such people, and the CV stage would be the place to do this. Corporate policy is not there to say things like "No pilots with an incident/accident or accident in their history shall be employed, except for those whom other pilots think are good eggs." The lawyers would laugh themselves all the way to the bank.
So Captain Sullenberger and First Officer Skiles, who would also presumably be precluded on the same basis, should also be prejudiced in this manner for being involved in a ancident where they were not at fault and their actions resulted in massive savings for their employers and in turn for their insurance underwriters. These insurers would likely underwrite airframes for many airlines all around the world, and should be down on bended knees applauding the actions and results of these individuals skills and performance.
Accidents and incidents do not mean that the victims are the perpetrators or the cause or the fault. Only the timid and blinkered would be so myopic. A myopia and paranoia no doubt enhanced by sad and sorry images of airframes that came to grief on runways and hillsides where their own training and corporate culture was woefully lacking.
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This BA pilot can do much better than the likes of Korean Airlines, with requirements they must obey, it sounds like part of the T's and C's from the insurance company they use.
Having met Capt. Sullenberger a few months ago, who received the highest medal of honour from Prince Philip, these pilots who save lots of lives and show extra professionalism, deserve more than praise itself. ... things that some individuals just don't obviously understand.
I'm sure he'll move onto something better
Having met Capt. Sullenberger a few months ago, who received the highest medal of honour from Prince Philip, these pilots who save lots of lives and show extra professionalism, deserve more than praise itself. ... things that some individuals just don't obviously understand.
I'm sure he'll move onto something better
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Policies of this nature are not written with the specific in mind. They are there to cover the general and as such may well sweep up and adversly affect such luminaries as Captains Burkhill and Sullenberger.
They still protect the company from having to make judgements on often politically driven accident investiagtions. How many findings of an accident are contentious with one company or manufacturer or pilot or families of pilots contested in some fashion.
I would be honoured to sit next to either of the pilots mentioned above, but that is going into the specific and not the general.
They still protect the company from having to make judgements on often politically driven accident investiagtions. How many findings of an accident are contentious with one company or manufacturer or pilot or families of pilots contested in some fashion.
I would be honoured to sit next to either of the pilots mentioned above, but that is going into the specific and not the general.
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You make a good point Juan Tugoh.
The problem is that although some aviation authorities encourage the whistle-blowing philosophy where incidents are openly reported for the benefit of aviation safety worldwide, this is not acknowledged by the accountants who run companies these days.
The problem is that although some aviation authorities encourage the whistle-blowing philosophy where incidents are openly reported for the benefit of aviation safety worldwide, this is not acknowledged by the accountants who run companies these days.
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Aaib Report
At the risk of a little thread drift WHEN and if is the aaib report coming out???. British airline on british soil with british engines !!! Dont tell me i'm the only one who sees cover up?? Posted here cos the BA 038 thread is now a spool
Controversial, moi?
Dont tell me i'm the only one who sees cover up??
Do you think they should publish before they are finished to satisfy your impatience?
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thinkingpilot - whatever you are thinking of it is almost certainly the wrong thing. Your comments about the AAIB and a suggested cover-up involving a 'British airline on british soil with british engines' are woefully ignorant of the UK accident investigation process. You may indeed smell a cover up - this is not India and that is not how things work in aviation here. The AAIB can publish anything they want and are not subject to interference from the UK government, any airline or any manifacturer. I appreciate you do not know how our accident investigation works, but it may be best to remain silent before revealing your ignorance to the world.
Regarding KAL, they have one of the worst safety records of any airline in modern times. It is entirely in keeping with that record to ban people who have been involved in an accident rather than people who were blameworthy in an accident. Yet another poor decision from an airline who have consistently done for flight safety what lockjaw does for conversation.
Regarding KAL, they have one of the worst safety records of any airline in modern times. It is entirely in keeping with that record to ban people who have been involved in an accident rather than people who were blameworthy in an accident. Yet another poor decision from an airline who have consistently done for flight safety what lockjaw does for conversation.
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I hope you meant "blameless". Norm?!
Regarding KAL, they have one of the worst safety records of any airline in modern times. It is entirely in keeping with that record to ban people who have been involved in an accident rather than people who were blameworthy in an accident.
To ban people who have been "involved" as opposed to being "blameworthy" strikes of an action taken that is not considerate of "Cause and Effect" or the difference between proximity and culpability.
That kind of thinking (or lack of) would surely contribute to a poor safety record, or a worsening one
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SLF point of view
AS a SLF it is apparent from all the information available that the cause of the "incident" was a technical fault and no way "pilot error"....
That said all pilots Captains Burkhill and Sullenberger included (plus the many other un recognized ones) have not only learned with how to deal with such emergencies, but have also taught the aviation world on how to.
God forbid if any such incident were to ever occur in an aircraft I am in I would be overjoyed to have Captains Burkhill and Sullenberger in control as their reaction time would be even better this time around and odds stacked in my favor.
Sad i don't run an airline as I would be lining up to hire these guys!
That said all pilots Captains Burkhill and Sullenberger included (plus the many other un recognized ones) have not only learned with how to deal with such emergencies, but have also taught the aviation world on how to.
God forbid if any such incident were to ever occur in an aircraft I am in I would be overjoyed to have Captains Burkhill and Sullenberger in control as their reaction time would be even better this time around and odds stacked in my favor.
Sad i don't run an airline as I would be lining up to hire these guys!
The AAIB are not immune from political influence in their investigations.To believe otherwise is naive.My dealings with KAL have been frustrating and not aligned with evolved thinking if I may be diplomatic.
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Unfortunately, this is being spun by some of the gainsayers at Cranebank that Capt Burkill was dismised by BA for incompetence, and that Korean won't employ him because of it.
History will finally show what an incredible job Peter and his crew did on the day, and how his leadership and CRM led to a 777 with no power crashing at the busiest international airport in the world and had all his customers walk away with barely a scratch.
For some constituencies at BA, this is too much to bear. Pilot hating is deeply entrenched, and hence the whispering campaign against Peter. The report will not come out until it contains enough euphamisms to keep everyone smelling of roses.
Unacceptable? Welcome to the new culture that pervades the UK.
History will finally show what an incredible job Peter and his crew did on the day, and how his leadership and CRM led to a 777 with no power crashing at the busiest international airport in the world and had all his customers walk away with barely a scratch.
For some constituencies at BA, this is too much to bear. Pilot hating is deeply entrenched, and hence the whispering campaign against Peter. The report will not come out until it contains enough euphamisms to keep everyone smelling of roses.
Unacceptable? Welcome to the new culture that pervades the UK.
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Quote from Mick Stability:
"Unfortunately, this is being spun by some of the gainsayers at Cranebank that Capt Burkill was dismised by BA for incompetence"
Thanks for letting me know this one!!
I never thought I'd read or hear people thinking that! I would rather know the negative stuff being spouted than stumble across it at a later date.
I'm seething over the fact that anyone in BA would think this; maybe it goes to show that some people speculate wrongly because they cannot understand why I decided to leave the LHS of a big airline.
Yes the truth will come out, but these sort of words hurt and stay hurt because I will always know that not everyone gets to hear the truth and even if they do hear it they choose not to understand and stand by the rumours they heard months/years before because those are more entrenched in their minds, so must be true!
I am trying to stay loyal to BA, they gave me a good career and I am not in a position in which I want to slag them off. I don't want to get into a slanging match of who/whats and whys but it is these sort of hurtful comments that contribute to the decision making process when a person questions where they should spend the next 15yrs of their career.
When 'The Sun' found out that I was leaving BA, both BA and I confirmed I was taking VR. Why would they say this if they had dismissed me?
"Unfortunately, this is being spun by some of the gainsayers at Cranebank that Capt Burkill was dismised by BA for incompetence"
Thanks for letting me know this one!!
I never thought I'd read or hear people thinking that! I would rather know the negative stuff being spouted than stumble across it at a later date.
I'm seething over the fact that anyone in BA would think this; maybe it goes to show that some people speculate wrongly because they cannot understand why I decided to leave the LHS of a big airline.
Yes the truth will come out, but these sort of words hurt and stay hurt because I will always know that not everyone gets to hear the truth and even if they do hear it they choose not to understand and stand by the rumours they heard months/years before because those are more entrenched in their minds, so must be true!
I am trying to stay loyal to BA, they gave me a good career and I am not in a position in which I want to slag them off. I don't want to get into a slanging match of who/whats and whys but it is these sort of hurtful comments that contribute to the decision making process when a person questions where they should spend the next 15yrs of their career.
When 'The Sun' found out that I was leaving BA, both BA and I confirmed I was taking VR. Why would they say this if they had dismissed me?
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Pete
We spoke a few months back outside T5, and as a fellow 78er can I just re-iterate that you know that those who really matter hold you in the highest regard, and that the morons elsewhere in BA are just bitter and twisted and a waste of space and beneath contempt.
Please try to hold your head high - you have earned the right to sneer at them.
We spoke a few months back outside T5, and as a fellow 78er can I just re-iterate that you know that those who really matter hold you in the highest regard, and that the morons elsewhere in BA are just bitter and twisted and a waste of space and beneath contempt.
Please try to hold your head high - you have earned the right to sneer at them.