BA038 Crew get BA safety Medal
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Peter,
Why don't you write a book or go on the lecture circuit for a short spell. Hasn't Moody been coining it in for decades over the Volcanic ash incident? You could replace him as sky's aviation expert whenever there is an accident. How hard can it be?
All you need is a jacket and tie and a list of stock phrases including long complicated acronyms and finish by saying " we shall have to wait until the black box is found before we really know"
Seriously though, I wish you all the best. Whenever your event is discussed in flightdecks i've been on, I've heard nothing but the highest regard for you by your fellow pilots.
Good Luck.
Why don't you write a book or go on the lecture circuit for a short spell. Hasn't Moody been coining it in for decades over the Volcanic ash incident? You could replace him as sky's aviation expert whenever there is an accident. How hard can it be?
All you need is a jacket and tie and a list of stock phrases including long complicated acronyms and finish by saying " we shall have to wait until the black box is found before we really know"
Seriously though, I wish you all the best. Whenever your event is discussed in flightdecks i've been on, I've heard nothing but the highest regard for you by your fellow pilots.
Good Luck.
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Captain,
BA is a big organisation, statistically there will always be a few uninformed morons. However please note there are lots of your ex colleagues in many departments including me, who have the highest regard for you and your actions.
I salute you. Good luck for the future!
Currock Base
BA is a big organisation, statistically there will always be a few uninformed morons. However please note there are lots of your ex colleagues in many departments including me, who have the highest regard for you and your actions.
I salute you. Good luck for the future!
Currock Base
Second Law
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Complete expletive contempt for the naysayers here.
Let them be tested at the end of a long stint in the saddle and see how they perform in less than 60 seconds in that situation.
Do they seriously think that they make themselves one iota more important by attempting to knock real people who did real things and really did save (hundreds of?) lives that day.
Very best wishes sir, total respect.
CW
Let them be tested at the end of a long stint in the saddle and see how they perform in less than 60 seconds in that situation.
Do they seriously think that they make themselves one iota more important by attempting to knock real people who did real things and really did save (hundreds of?) lives that day.
Very best wishes sir, total respect.
CW
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justify
M MOUSE , it has been 18 months plus . the lockerbie report by the aaib took about the same amount of time and THAT was terrorism.
harryman, try to remember that this is a proffessional forum and justify
your comments rather than behaving like a 5 year old.
norman stan fletcher , as above my compliments on trying to come to the defense of your country's board but try to talk as a proffessional rather than bringing india into your irrellevant comments . Concentrate on the issue rather than revealing your bias.Try to explain how in a little while this investigation will overtake lockerbie in time taken . Also if you think any institution is TOTALLY above pressure I hope you dont hold any position of responsibility.
btw for proffessional pilots unlike the jingoistic guys above please note that the aaib is looked upto by many all over the world which is what makes the time taken on this report all the more troubling when ALL the evidence was right there on day 1.
harryman, try to remember that this is a proffessional forum and justify
your comments rather than behaving like a 5 year old.
norman stan fletcher , as above my compliments on trying to come to the defense of your country's board but try to talk as a proffessional rather than bringing india into your irrellevant comments . Concentrate on the issue rather than revealing your bias.Try to explain how in a little while this investigation will overtake lockerbie in time taken . Also if you think any institution is TOTALLY above pressure I hope you dont hold any position of responsibility.
btw for proffessional pilots unlike the jingoistic guys above please note that the aaib is looked upto by many all over the world which is what makes the time taken on this report all the more troubling when ALL the evidence was right there on day 1.
Last edited by thinkingpilot; 27th Sep 2009 at 05:25. Reason: last para
I think you'll find that in the majority of accidents the "evidence is there from day one"...it's finding it and understanding it that takes the time...As someone who flys RR engined 777's I don't care if it takes the AAIB another 6 months to publish the full report as long as they get it "right".
Controversial, moi?
...the lockerbie report by the aaib took about the same amount of time and THAT was terrorism.
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Originally Posted by thinkingpilot
which is what makes the time taken on this report all the more troubling when ALL the evidence was right there on day 1.
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Pilots unfortunately can't create what the medical profession has created in order to safeguard itself.
A strong representation determines the number of ''crew'' required, always less of course which creates a shortage of skill, naturally by undertraining, which then chokes the system with waiting lists, then introduce a simple ''solution'' such as health insurance, and we have a system which benefits the chosen few.
Hence why surgeons remuneration in the west have outpaced inflation tenfold. Does this benefit the tax funded user?No.Has this helped reduce the mortality rates in the west?No to the contrary.
Solution, the Japanese system, a system that was created to benefit the end user only.
So long as we have the ''flexicrew'' system and its inceptors around our profession is doomed. Efficient market theory.
A strong representation determines the number of ''crew'' required, always less of course which creates a shortage of skill, naturally by undertraining, which then chokes the system with waiting lists, then introduce a simple ''solution'' such as health insurance, and we have a system which benefits the chosen few.
Hence why surgeons remuneration in the west have outpaced inflation tenfold. Does this benefit the tax funded user?No.Has this helped reduce the mortality rates in the west?No to the contrary.
Solution, the Japanese system, a system that was created to benefit the end user only.
So long as we have the ''flexicrew'' system and its inceptors around our profession is doomed. Efficient market theory.
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Congratulations, and well deserved, to the crew!
Yes, and many times over!
Brick Bats, (pls provide proper english term), to the Industry!
For not providing a safe altitude throughout the designated approach, to permit a reduced power gliding profile, to reach the desired runway, and pilot training in the control of kinetic energy in ground effect, during the landing phase.
Brick Bats, (pls provide proper english term), to the Industry!
For not providing a safe altitude throughout the designated approach, to permit a reduced power gliding profile, to reach the desired runway, and pilot training in the control of kinetic energy in ground effect, during the landing phase.
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From Wikipedia:
"The crew received various awards, including Her Majesty The Queen's Commendations for Valuable Service in the Air and medals from the British Air Line Pilots Association."
"The crew received various awards, including Her Majesty The Queen's Commendations for Valuable Service in the Air and medals from the British Air Line Pilots Association."
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Believable?
Mmmday 38, the man himself, very interesting to read what you had to say! I sincerely hope the final report vindicates you and your crew's actions. However I disagree with the medal awards and the BA propaganda press conference! We as pilots are there to do a job and shouldnt be treated as either heroes or villains when something goes wrong, the report should simply determine what happened and try and stop it happening again.
But from a PR point of view I think you have behaved naively to say the least. Of course resigning from the worlds favorite airline is bound to make it look like you were pushed, you shouldnt be surprised at that. You gave the reason as 'needing more time with your family' and then try and get a job with KAL in Korea?
But worst of all you claimed job seekers allowance when you no doubt received a very handsome payout from BA (not to mention the 6 figure pension you would have got had you stayed on). Knowing that everything you did would be closely scrutinised by the tabloids I dont think you can now complain about hurtful comments!
But from a PR point of view I think you have behaved naively to say the least. Of course resigning from the worlds favorite airline is bound to make it look like you were pushed, you shouldnt be surprised at that. You gave the reason as 'needing more time with your family' and then try and get a job with KAL in Korea?
But worst of all you claimed job seekers allowance when you no doubt received a very handsome payout from BA (not to mention the 6 figure pension you would have got had you stayed on). Knowing that everything you did would be closely scrutinised by the tabloids I dont think you can now complain about hurtful comments!
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All the best for the future Pete.
Of interest to this thread..
Saw this on youtube- a coherent overview of the AAIB investigation.
YouTube - British Airways 777 Crash Update March 2009
Of interest to this thread..
Saw this on youtube- a coherent overview of the AAIB investigation.
YouTube - British Airways 777 Crash Update March 2009
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I can't be bothered to drag through nine pages of postings on this so forgive me if I duplicate.
This crew ended up with a scenario not seen before in modern times with little time to assess the situation and resolve it. It ended up as a happy story partly through flying ability aided by more than a shovel full of luck.
A major event such as this is bound to concentrate the mind on life, the universe and everything so a change in career direction is to be expected.
Meanwhile the BA publicity machine is going to work flat out of making a near disaster into a PR bonus, and try to take the crew along with them. If the crew do not want to be made some sort of hero, which they probably do not, then they will be in opposition to company protocol. What would you do? Go along with the PR machine? Fall on your sword and be labelled a martyr? Just get the hell out of it and start again?
I think I would distance myself from the politics and get on with life.
This crew ended up with a scenario not seen before in modern times with little time to assess the situation and resolve it. It ended up as a happy story partly through flying ability aided by more than a shovel full of luck.
A major event such as this is bound to concentrate the mind on life, the universe and everything so a change in career direction is to be expected.
Meanwhile the BA publicity machine is going to work flat out of making a near disaster into a PR bonus, and try to take the crew along with them. If the crew do not want to be made some sort of hero, which they probably do not, then they will be in opposition to company protocol. What would you do? Go along with the PR machine? Fall on your sword and be labelled a martyr? Just get the hell out of it and start again?
I think I would distance myself from the politics and get on with life.
Controversial, moi?
cool guy, one comment which cannot be left unchallenged is your reference to a 6 figure pension. In the not so distant past pensions of that order were possible but nowadays very few will get anywhere near that figure. Knowing Peter's background I know he would not have done.
His decision to leave was made for reasons he alone truly knows.
His decision to leave was made for reasons he alone truly knows.
. . and now, some light relief: What did you think it was going to be?
Don't have an accreditation for cartoonist. If he/she sees this here I will accredit or remove as requested.
Don't have an accreditation for cartoonist. If he/she sees this here I will accredit or remove as requested.
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Coool Guy
I have spent too many months not being able to defend myself but I am going to try and defend myself to your post.
"Of course resigning from the worlds favorite airline is bound to make it look like you were pushed, you shouldnt be surprised at that. You gave the reason as 'needing more time with your family' and then try and get a job with KAL in Korea?
But worst of all you claimed job seekers allowance when you no doubt received a very handsome payout from BA (not to mention the 6 figure pension you would have got had you stayed on). Knowing that everything you did would be closely scrutinised by the tabloids I dont think you can now complain about hurtful comments"
The decision to leave BA was not one I took lightly. It was not based on one individual reason but rather a build up of varying issues from within and outside the company. No-one will ever fully be able to understand what the last 19 months have been like except for my wife and I. Even close friends cannot fully comprehend the impact the BA38 has had on us. If you had walked in my shoes over the last 19 months, and I hope you never do have to, you would understand that the choice to take the VR from BA was the right decision for my family and I. AND yes I am surprised to hear of rumours that suggest I was pushed out. That is disappointing as all the evidence shows that the BA38 was not pilot error, so why should I even think I would be portrayed as being pushed? To have people imply that I was pushed when it is common knowledge that I took VOLUNTARY redundancy is hurtful and there is no justification or fairness to it.
KAL was an option I looked into back in May which I had hoped to be able to use as an interim, as I was under the impression I had a job to go to with a certain airline once they started recruiting again. It was never going to be longterm and once I discovered that they do not accept an accident I knew I wouldn't be accepted by them anyway. You should never believe everything you read in the papers.
Yes I received 52 weeks basic pay for my VR. A nice figure and enough to last me a year. A 6 figure pension ... I wish! Those days went a long time ago!
Jobseekers allowance. From my 52 weeks VR payout I will pay approx £40k in tax (forget what I will have paid already this year). I have worked since I was 13 in small part time jobs, through Uni and then into BA for the last 20years. I have never claimed anything but probably just like you I have paid a lot into the pot. We get no help with childcare costs or housing costs. My son has a medical condition that in the future he will probably need an operation on his leg as they grow at different rates. Until he is close to maturity the Docs will not know how much length difference there will be between his legs. If there is a length difference in his legs of less than 4cm they will not operate unless I pay privately. So even in this instance I possibly would not be able to make use of medical facilities that my taxes would have helped with, yet if I don't pay privately my son would have one leg 4cm shorter than the other, with an operation possible but not availabe on the NHS.
By taking jobseekers allowance I will have my national pension contributions paid and NI paid for the next 6 months. Surely this is fair? Or am I supposed to lose out on these contributions? If you think that it is wrong for me to take £1664 (£64 week x 26 weeks, if I remain unemployed for 6 months) from the state after what I have paid in? does that mean that those people who haven't worked a day in their lives and don't expect to ever work should take any? We all know people who have no intention of working yet manage to claim all kinds of benefits.
His Dudeness
From Wikipedia:
"The crew received various awards, including Her Majesty The Queen's Commendations for Valuable Service in the Air and medals from the British Air Line Pilots Association."
I'd just like to point out for those who may confuse it with the title of this thread that this statement is for the BA009 and not the BA38. The BA38 were invited to a Queen's Garden Party last year.
I have spent too many months not being able to defend myself but I am going to try and defend myself to your post.
"Of course resigning from the worlds favorite airline is bound to make it look like you were pushed, you shouldnt be surprised at that. You gave the reason as 'needing more time with your family' and then try and get a job with KAL in Korea?
But worst of all you claimed job seekers allowance when you no doubt received a very handsome payout from BA (not to mention the 6 figure pension you would have got had you stayed on). Knowing that everything you did would be closely scrutinised by the tabloids I dont think you can now complain about hurtful comments"
The decision to leave BA was not one I took lightly. It was not based on one individual reason but rather a build up of varying issues from within and outside the company. No-one will ever fully be able to understand what the last 19 months have been like except for my wife and I. Even close friends cannot fully comprehend the impact the BA38 has had on us. If you had walked in my shoes over the last 19 months, and I hope you never do have to, you would understand that the choice to take the VR from BA was the right decision for my family and I. AND yes I am surprised to hear of rumours that suggest I was pushed out. That is disappointing as all the evidence shows that the BA38 was not pilot error, so why should I even think I would be portrayed as being pushed? To have people imply that I was pushed when it is common knowledge that I took VOLUNTARY redundancy is hurtful and there is no justification or fairness to it.
KAL was an option I looked into back in May which I had hoped to be able to use as an interim, as I was under the impression I had a job to go to with a certain airline once they started recruiting again. It was never going to be longterm and once I discovered that they do not accept an accident I knew I wouldn't be accepted by them anyway. You should never believe everything you read in the papers.
Yes I received 52 weeks basic pay for my VR. A nice figure and enough to last me a year. A 6 figure pension ... I wish! Those days went a long time ago!
Jobseekers allowance. From my 52 weeks VR payout I will pay approx £40k in tax (forget what I will have paid already this year). I have worked since I was 13 in small part time jobs, through Uni and then into BA for the last 20years. I have never claimed anything but probably just like you I have paid a lot into the pot. We get no help with childcare costs or housing costs. My son has a medical condition that in the future he will probably need an operation on his leg as they grow at different rates. Until he is close to maturity the Docs will not know how much length difference there will be between his legs. If there is a length difference in his legs of less than 4cm they will not operate unless I pay privately. So even in this instance I possibly would not be able to make use of medical facilities that my taxes would have helped with, yet if I don't pay privately my son would have one leg 4cm shorter than the other, with an operation possible but not availabe on the NHS.
By taking jobseekers allowance I will have my national pension contributions paid and NI paid for the next 6 months. Surely this is fair? Or am I supposed to lose out on these contributions? If you think that it is wrong for me to take £1664 (£64 week x 26 weeks, if I remain unemployed for 6 months) from the state after what I have paid in? does that mean that those people who haven't worked a day in their lives and don't expect to ever work should take any? We all know people who have no intention of working yet manage to claim all kinds of benefits.
His Dudeness
From Wikipedia:
"The crew received various awards, including Her Majesty The Queen's Commendations for Valuable Service in the Air and medals from the British Air Line Pilots Association."
I'd just like to point out for those who may confuse it with the title of this thread that this statement is for the BA009 and not the BA38. The BA38 were invited to a Queen's Garden Party last year.
Last edited by Mmmayday38; 19th Oct 2009 at 07:08. Reason: calculation error
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Mmmayday38
I have just read all of Coool guy's posts on Pprune (all 5 of them). 4 are on this thread. Just a cautionary note to be careful in case trolls are operating. The media has been known to lurk.
All the best to you and your family. You deserve respect and goodwill from all.
Best wishes
Paul.
I have just read all of Coool guy's posts on Pprune (all 5 of them). 4 are on this thread. Just a cautionary note to be careful in case trolls are operating. The media has been known to lurk.
All the best to you and your family. You deserve respect and goodwill from all.
Best wishes
Paul.