Ryanair on grass in Poland - Taxi incident
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shady,
I'm so used to people all over the world slagging off the airline I work for, that it goes in one ear and out the other. The point of my post was not to slag off ryr but to point out the rude tone and content that some of the posters used.
I can't bear bad customer service, whether it's in a shop, on a train, plane or wherever. When crew from an airline post as these people have, that indicates to me that :
1. They're possibly not in the right job
2. Their customer service skills must be vastly improved
I of course know that they are humans, that's why I haven't actually posted exactly what I wanted to say, as that would be thought of as antagonising and provoking them.
Gg
I'm so used to people all over the world slagging off the airline I work for, that it goes in one ear and out the other. The point of my post was not to slag off ryr but to point out the rude tone and content that some of the posters used.
I can't bear bad customer service, whether it's in a shop, on a train, plane or wherever. When crew from an airline post as these people have, that indicates to me that :
1. They're possibly not in the right job
2. Their customer service skills must be vastly improved
I of course know that they are humans, that's why I haven't actually posted exactly what I wanted to say, as that would be thought of as antagonising and provoking them.
Gg
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Biased Mods
Three or four of these posts would have been deleted if the company concerned was BA. I wonder why the Mods are happy to let RYR get trashed on a regular basis but any criticism of BA is 'disappeared'?
I expect I will get banned for writing this innocuous post!
I expect I will get banned for writing this innocuous post!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is somewhat disappointing that people like Countdown and Beagle are allowed to get away with quite outrageous statements without so much as a hint of apology, other than having their posts deleted.
Regrettably, we saw what they had to say and if it irritates the Mods enough to delete the offending post, it certainly has some effect on mere mortals who are the intended targets.
Bar room chat etc I can take, but I really do find it offensive to be called a monkey. Perhaps a Mod could explain why the post by Countdown was removed and how I, and my colleagues at FR, can expect an apology?
Regrettably, we saw what they had to say and if it irritates the Mods enough to delete the offending post, it certainly has some effect on mere mortals who are the intended targets.
Bar room chat etc I can take, but I really do find it offensive to be called a monkey. Perhaps a Mod could explain why the post by Countdown was removed and how I, and my colleagues at FR, can expect an apology?
Guest
Posts: n/a
As I'm in good mood......................
The last time the mods were criticised for allowing condemnation of a company was ooooooooh yesterday, in relation to several BA threads. Criticism of BA, RYR or indeed any company is NOT removed for the sake of it but only where it is deemed irrelevant to the subject or spurious (take note those of you who have registered multiple usernames and posted in this thread under more than one name).
Yes, mods are deleting posts from this and other threads. This is a deliberate effort to reinforce the 'Professional' aspect of PPRuNe and a drive to keep threads on track and reduce background noise.
For apologies those who feel sleighted may either PM the perceived offender and/or make use of the 'report post' function.
Duck
The last time the mods were criticised for allowing condemnation of a company was ooooooooh yesterday, in relation to several BA threads. Criticism of BA, RYR or indeed any company is NOT removed for the sake of it but only where it is deemed irrelevant to the subject or spurious (take note those of you who have registered multiple usernames and posted in this thread under more than one name).
Yes, mods are deleting posts from this and other threads. This is a deliberate effort to reinforce the 'Professional' aspect of PPRuNe and a drive to keep threads on track and reduce background noise.
For apologies those who feel sleighted may either PM the perceived offender and/or make use of the 'report post' function.
Duck
Yet again you have used somewhat draconian powers to stifle comment, Rogers.
I don't care whose airline was involved, but I seriously question anyone who asserts that this was a 'hey, could happen to anyone' event.
That is not an acceptable attitude towards airline safety.
I don't care whose airline was involved, but I seriously question anyone who asserts that this was a 'hey, could happen to anyone' event.
That is not an acceptable attitude towards airline safety.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And you would know?
Care to share with us your " airline" background 35 Sqn man?
Oops.
Before some Mod gets on his / her high horse 35 was a Bomber Sqn, not an airline, and 101 was a Tanker Sqn, not an airline.
This man's airline experience is purely as a passenger.
Care to share with us your " airline" background 35 Sqn man?
Oops.
Before some Mod gets on his / her high horse 35 was a Bomber Sqn, not an airline, and 101 was a Tanker Sqn, not an airline.
This man's airline experience is purely as a passenger.
OK then 'flight' safety. Happier now?
I am critical of those who brush off taxiing 'incidents' in the way WWW did on this thread. The specific airline is of absolutely no consequence, but if there is a growing "Hey, could have happened to anyone" culture in air transport operations these days about such avoidable events, then I'm going by train!
I am critical of those who brush off taxiing 'incidents' in the way WWW did on this thread. The specific airline is of absolutely no consequence, but if there is a growing "Hey, could have happened to anyone" culture in air transport operations these days about such avoidable events, then I'm going by train!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt ted,
what a nice man you are. I critisized you and you came back with a very proffesional answer . have you read the diatraibe of the last few pages? our conversation really has been lost!! I've been off flying a 737 so happily i didn't get involved with the diatribe.
Anyway, lets put this into perspective. A 737 turned around on an area not capable of supporting said machine. No one was hurt, the aircraft certainly was not damaged (i've had a cadet hit the nose at 140kts so a bit of sand at 5kts did nothing for sure) so i am stuggling to find the issue here. Looks great on Youtube et al, but thats it...a non event!!
Now ted, if you said the pilots were great i would probably argue they weren't. But you said they made a mistake and i am taking up the job of devils advocate, im always up for a good argument!!
We have been told by a poster (probably a laywer...hehe) that the toda versus rwy lenght gave us a clue there was no turning pad. Well, as a 73 captain i can tell you that i would not be including that kinda deatail in my brief unless i wanted to bore the fo to slahshing his wrists. I looked at another posters link to the airports plates. There is no "light grey" area depicted after the runway. which of course we all know indicates areas you cannot taxi on....dont we folks? (hehe lost a few there). So one piece of mathematical info says there is no turning pad and another says there is no area that you cannot taxi in. Now, one laywer will say he made a mistake and another will say he didn't, but come on, a bit of reality, when you back track you look out the window to taxi, not at some mathemathical model. If there are no visual clues then you can hardly call it a mistake by the pilot...may be a mistake by the airport operator.
Half of the airports i fly to have turning pads and the other half don't. I expect an area to be marked off if i can't taxi on it. The reality is....if this guy/gal taxied onto it then i could probably have done the same thing. If all you lawyer pilots think you wouldn't make this "mistake" then i have have one simple piece of advice........wait for 40 years of flying then come back and tell me the same thing again.
To answer your question ted....ERROR is the word in CRM world. And error does not imply guilt. But in my twisted mind..."mistake" does. Error is something which happens to us all (every 3 minutes according to airbus) and is something we just have to deal with. generally it is a result of a chain of events. (am i clutching at straws here.......ok mistake was probably ok)
This was a non event guys. Best wishes to the the guys and gals on board. even ryanair couldn't have a problem with this "error"
what a nice man you are. I critisized you and you came back with a very proffesional answer . have you read the diatraibe of the last few pages? our conversation really has been lost!! I've been off flying a 737 so happily i didn't get involved with the diatribe.
Anyway, lets put this into perspective. A 737 turned around on an area not capable of supporting said machine. No one was hurt, the aircraft certainly was not damaged (i've had a cadet hit the nose at 140kts so a bit of sand at 5kts did nothing for sure) so i am stuggling to find the issue here. Looks great on Youtube et al, but thats it...a non event!!
Now ted, if you said the pilots were great i would probably argue they weren't. But you said they made a mistake and i am taking up the job of devils advocate, im always up for a good argument!!
We have been told by a poster (probably a laywer...hehe) that the toda versus rwy lenght gave us a clue there was no turning pad. Well, as a 73 captain i can tell you that i would not be including that kinda deatail in my brief unless i wanted to bore the fo to slahshing his wrists. I looked at another posters link to the airports plates. There is no "light grey" area depicted after the runway. which of course we all know indicates areas you cannot taxi on....dont we folks? (hehe lost a few there). So one piece of mathematical info says there is no turning pad and another says there is no area that you cannot taxi in. Now, one laywer will say he made a mistake and another will say he didn't, but come on, a bit of reality, when you back track you look out the window to taxi, not at some mathemathical model. If there are no visual clues then you can hardly call it a mistake by the pilot...may be a mistake by the airport operator.
Half of the airports i fly to have turning pads and the other half don't. I expect an area to be marked off if i can't taxi on it. The reality is....if this guy/gal taxied onto it then i could probably have done the same thing. If all you lawyer pilots think you wouldn't make this "mistake" then i have have one simple piece of advice........wait for 40 years of flying then come back and tell me the same thing again.
To answer your question ted....ERROR is the word in CRM world. And error does not imply guilt. But in my twisted mind..."mistake" does. Error is something which happens to us all (every 3 minutes according to airbus) and is something we just have to deal with. generally it is a result of a chain of events. (am i clutching at straws here.......ok mistake was probably ok)
This was a non event guys. Best wishes to the the guys and gals on board. even ryanair couldn't have a problem with this "error"
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: craggy island parochial house
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
error,bad judgement not "mistake"
bomber,
ok i will agree with you then but as english is not my first language error and bad judgement probably dont sound as harsh as mistake.
i liked your bit about the airbus,having let the 737 last year am now trying to understand what the hell the electric death jet is doing,what a shame it is not voice activated it would be so much easier.i have circa 700 hours multiplied by 3.......oops that is 2100 mistakes in the last year alone
what annoys me regarding this EPISODE is that it should not have happened (touch wood it never happens to me),if the capt is who i think it is and i hope its not, has ooddlleess of experience!!!!! i have flown for the ryans for 7 good fun filled years ex stn and dub the two biggest bases incident free in that time (again luck of the IRISH and not skill). we operated into most of the airports in the fr network,what i am getting at is that ema has an infinitely smaller number of aircraft therefore an infinitely smaller number of airports that it operates into. how many times have this crew been into lodz if fr only operates a number of routes from ema by ema crew??????
to the guys and gals from fr,people will bash fr because it is fr, best thing to do is let it flow over you,these people have not worked there before and are in no position to comment on life on the inside,remember that!!!!!
dobre rano moj kamarad
čau pro ted' 
spinkat
couldnt sleep was have moist dreams of flying the 737 again
slim you need to put down the computer and go get laid,it should round those edgy surfaces aiiiiiit!!!!
ok i will agree with you then but as english is not my first language error and bad judgement probably dont sound as harsh as mistake.
i liked your bit about the airbus,having let the 737 last year am now trying to understand what the hell the electric death jet is doing,what a shame it is not voice activated it would be so much easier.i have circa 700 hours multiplied by 3.......oops that is 2100 mistakes in the last year alone
what annoys me regarding this EPISODE is that it should not have happened (touch wood it never happens to me),if the capt is who i think it is and i hope its not, has ooddlleess of experience!!!!! i have flown for the ryans for 7 good fun filled years ex stn and dub the two biggest bases incident free in that time (again luck of the IRISH and not skill). we operated into most of the airports in the fr network,what i am getting at is that ema has an infinitely smaller number of aircraft therefore an infinitely smaller number of airports that it operates into. how many times have this crew been into lodz if fr only operates a number of routes from ema by ema crew??????
to the guys and gals from fr,people will bash fr because it is fr, best thing to do is let it flow over you,these people have not worked there before and are in no position to comment on life on the inside,remember that!!!!!
dobre rano moj kamarad
čau pro ted' spinkatcouldnt sleep was have moist dreams of flying the 737 again
slim you need to put down the computer and go get laid,it should round those edgy surfaces aiiiiiit!!!!
Last edited by Capt Ted Crilly; 30th Apr 2008 at 06:23.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: southwest
Age: 78
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I presume that after this there'll be no more threads whingeing about pilots' Ts & Cs going downhill.
By slagging each other off in public you're reinforcing the view that it's not a respected profession.
Anyone want to re-write this public thread changing the characters from pilots to surgeons? Unthinkable.
By slagging each other off in public you're reinforcing the view that it's not a respected profession.
Anyone want to re-write this public thread changing the characters from pilots to surgeons? Unthinkable.
Last edited by Dysag; 30th Apr 2008 at 07:33.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dysag:
...this is a typical reaction.
Shooo, shooo, sweep it under the carpet, look away...
And what about the "Just Culture" ???
What about the airlines fulfilling all the safety rules,
going down due to the unfair competition from other companies,
whose pilots "land at any conditions" ???
...this is a typical reaction.
Shooo, shooo, sweep it under the carpet, look away...
And what about the "Just Culture" ???
What about the airlines fulfilling all the safety rules,
going down due to the unfair competition from other companies,
whose pilots "land at any conditions" ???
On a slightly different tack ......
What does this say about the effectiveness of arrestor beds?
It appears that the only signifcant retardation came after the nosewheel was turned as it's only then it dug into the surface.
The mains still appear to be on the surface and no tracks visible prior to the nose wheel sinking.
How useful would this arrestor bed have been for an aircraft in a straight line (allbeit probably braking)??
What does this say about the effectiveness of arrestor beds?
It appears that the only signifcant retardation came after the nosewheel was turned as it's only then it dug into the surface.
The mains still appear to be on the surface and no tracks visible prior to the nose wheel sinking.
How useful would this arrestor bed have been for an aircraft in a straight line (allbeit probably braking)??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why am I not surprised that this accident has happened?? I worked at FR for a while and one would often see crews in Dublin lining up on RWY 28 and in the process, virtually run over the RWY end lights and almost taxi onto the grass just so they dont waste a few meters. Seriously, its just a 737-800 (just a bike really), so wake up guys, its not that CRITICAL and line up allowance is taken into account with perf calcs anyhow.
I remeber my idiot Training Captain who had 7000 hrs less than me getting stuck into me for not using this line up method at DUB. Its pretty simple really, don't hit any red cones and never go beyond the white lines, no need to because not 10 minutes earlier, everyone on the flight deck has agreed that the performance figures are acceptable for the available runway length. Trying to be smart can make one look very dumb ha!!
I remeber my idiot Training Captain who had 7000 hrs less than me getting stuck into me for not using this line up method at DUB. Its pretty simple really, don't hit any red cones and never go beyond the white lines, no need to because not 10 minutes earlier, everyone on the flight deck has agreed that the performance figures are acceptable for the available runway length. Trying to be smart can make one look very dumb ha!!
Last edited by 00seven; 30th Apr 2008 at 08:52.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In my seat
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ptkay,
On what proof do you claim that FR is busting minima/ weather limitations?!
I think that people forget that FR is now BY FAR the biggest European International airline, operating into some of Europe's more challenging airports (that can handle B737.800).
I am not flying for Ryanair, but get really annoyed by all these idiots whose only objective is ryanairbashing and not trying to find out cause and consequence, like professionals with Safety in mind would.
On what proof do you claim that FR is busting minima/ weather limitations?!
I think that people forget that FR is now BY FAR the biggest European International airline, operating into some of Europe's more challenging airports (that can handle B737.800).
I am not flying for Ryanair, but get really annoyed by all these idiots whose only objective is ryanairbashing and not trying to find out cause and consequence, like professionals with Safety in mind would.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Now at Home
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
according to the picture @33zz33 for me it does not loook like a "turn" problem, because the groove of the NW looks very straight. 
Probabely it was an overrrun for whatsoever reason and not just an "taxi incident" during line-up
Doesn't make me wonder seeing the "FR-way" to "explain" all their incidents happend in the past
Probabely it was an overrrun for whatsoever reason and not just an "taxi incident" during line-up
Doesn't make me wonder seeing the "FR-way" to "explain" all their incidents happend in the past
Why on earth did they go past that VERY solid white line depicting the end of the runway??
2500M of runway when they would need, 1500 tops? Why try and claw an extra couple of metres?
2500M of runway when they would need, 1500 tops? Why try and claw an extra couple of metres?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dre's mum's house
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airbus a321.....get back in your box and close the lid.
The aircraft was turning to line up for departure; the surface bore the weight until the nosewheel turned: check the mainwheels which didn't sink in to the surface.
The aircraft was turning to line up for departure; the surface bore the weight until the nosewheel turned: check the mainwheels which didn't sink in to the surface.