Monarch on TV
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Rugby UK
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I`m sure that old bat at the interveiw said that the young lady (leeann) i think her name was, had all the qualifications but the photos showing her having a good time had let her down. Does this mean if she had been a misrable cow she would have got the job. What a sad world we live in. I wish her luck and hope that a airline has spotted her and gives her a chance.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unwell Raptor
It is worth remembering that the punters you describe with prejudice in your post are the source of income for many of us and they are not all bad. Many are honest, hardworking people and families who want a value for money holiday and are very pleasant. Often when air rage incidents have occurred, other passengers have stepped in to help.
Overall, the louts and troublemakers are in the minority. My relatives and friends travel charter and one has just phoned me having read this post. Her impression of pilots is now that we are a bunch of arrogant snobs. She has recently travelled charter and is the daughter of a Spanish Countess (not that she advertises the fact, it's not her style).
It's also worth bearing in mind that our potential customers have access to this forum, and I hope that after reading your post they read this one so they are not left with the inpression that when they fly with us (assuming they haven't now been put off) we are thinking they are inferior beings who belong in the cargo bay. Some are, I know, but TV companies tend not to show footage of nice, normal folk who just want to have a break from their work.
It's all a question of a balanced view IMHO and your post needed a reply from someone with less pre-conceived opinions.
It is worth remembering that the punters you describe with prejudice in your post are the source of income for many of us and they are not all bad. Many are honest, hardworking people and families who want a value for money holiday and are very pleasant. Often when air rage incidents have occurred, other passengers have stepped in to help.
Overall, the louts and troublemakers are in the minority. My relatives and friends travel charter and one has just phoned me having read this post. Her impression of pilots is now that we are a bunch of arrogant snobs. She has recently travelled charter and is the daughter of a Spanish Countess (not that she advertises the fact, it's not her style).
It's also worth bearing in mind that our potential customers have access to this forum, and I hope that after reading your post they read this one so they are not left with the inpression that when they fly with us (assuming they haven't now been put off) we are thinking they are inferior beings who belong in the cargo bay. Some are, I know, but TV companies tend not to show footage of nice, normal folk who just want to have a break from their work.
It's all a question of a balanced view IMHO and your post needed a reply from someone with less pre-conceived opinions.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having flown scheduled and charter over the past few years I can assure you that there were far more problems with pax on the scheduled side than I have ever seen on the charter side.
Bit of a misconception this about scheduled v. charter.
Totally agree with Mowgli.
Bit of a misconception this about scheduled v. charter.
Totally agree with Mowgli.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, my balanced view on pax is that wheras charter pax are often confused and stressed that is mainly because they only take that one flight a year. Still, the vast majority are sweet and most often comply with the instructions given to them by CC. Not quite so for the seasoned business traveller who, it seems to me, likes nothing better than pointing his (nearly always a he) finger at something totally stupid "I want to sit in seat 1A, I always sit there" or "I only drink Chardonnay cooled to 14.7 deg C". They always have a tendency to show up late since "they won't offload me I've checked in a bag" and on and on.
Went on charter week before last to CHQ and yes, the cattle transporter was full of nice, happy folks eager for a holiday in the sun. No sour faces here, and no one making a fuss at all.
And finally to whoem ever said that we as pilots should have a presence when hiring CC "because they are there for safety reasons". Yes they are, but luckily modern air travel rarely calls for their safety training. On the other hand, on each and every flight they are the frontline staff, and it is their performance that decides to large extent whether passengers will enjoy the flight or not. No, pilots should not participate in this or most other managerial tasks. We are hired to drive the aircraft safely from A to B and that's it. Leave Human Resources to the experts and likewise with management, sales, IT and what have you. I for one would not like to have a HR presence in the cockpit, and surely HR wouldn't want a pilot to hire CC.
Went on charter week before last to CHQ and yes, the cattle transporter was full of nice, happy folks eager for a holiday in the sun. No sour faces here, and no one making a fuss at all.
And finally to whoem ever said that we as pilots should have a presence when hiring CC "because they are there for safety reasons". Yes they are, but luckily modern air travel rarely calls for their safety training. On the other hand, on each and every flight they are the frontline staff, and it is their performance that decides to large extent whether passengers will enjoy the flight or not. No, pilots should not participate in this or most other managerial tasks. We are hired to drive the aircraft safely from A to B and that's it. Leave Human Resources to the experts and likewise with management, sales, IT and what have you. I for one would not like to have a HR presence in the cockpit, and surely HR wouldn't want a pilot to hire CC.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Charter airlines and "Low Cost" airlines fly scum to the sun. The fact that these people cause chaos is no surprise. It should therefore be no surprise that the latest generation of "entertainment" TV producers have chosen to exploit this. Unfortunately the scum have more of a voice than the entire aviation industry that gets them there and back safely.
Unfortunately, the world is now run by the scum………… ask any Casualty Doctor in East London or Fireman in Bradford. The answer they would give is – “we can’t touch them or we’ll be in court”. The same applies to aviation – but the problem is aggravated a 100 fold in the confines of an aircraft.
There is however one “professional” that benefits from this new world order – the lawyer.
Thank God for 1st Class.
[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: Augustus Finknottle ]
Unfortunately, the world is now run by the scum………… ask any Casualty Doctor in East London or Fireman in Bradford. The answer they would give is – “we can’t touch them or we’ll be in court”. The same applies to aviation – but the problem is aggravated a 100 fold in the confines of an aircraft.
There is however one “professional” that benefits from this new world order – the lawyer.
Thank God for 1st Class.
[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: Augustus Finknottle ]
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Psycho, how can you use the words 'Human Resources' and 'experts' in the same sentence? 
Joking aside, I have found HR types, to a man (or woman god forbid), utterly useless and inept at anything other than spouting their own existance.
Joking aside, I have found HR types, to a man (or woman god forbid), utterly useless and inept at anything other than spouting their own existance.
Rainbow Chaser
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: At home, mostly!
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the issue is about expectation... the vast majority of the Brit travelling public, who use charter because the prices are most affordable, just want a time abroad in the sunshine, away from work and stresses of life BUT actually getting to the airport, affording the holiday and flying itself cause stresses. The majority do not fly everyday, every month..for many the first flight EVER is their vacation flight. Delays cause stress to everyone, explanation as to why things are happening lessens that stress. On the show if ONCE the Cosmos reps had said to pax, there are no coaches because of strike action, we need to get you to the airport and the only way is by taxi and because there are so many of you we have to start now then I doubt there would have been a problem. At no time in the show was an explanation given - and yes, words of one syllable are needed in such a circumstance!! for anyone!!
I still believe the British travelling public for the most part is decent and not wishing to cause disruption. Sure you will find a%*holes in business travel (just ask, next time, how many servants the complaining biz passenger has at home!!) and the occasional disruptive in vacation travel but I really do believe that most people just want things to work, to be on time and to have explanation if things are not working to plan ...am I wrong?
I still believe the British travelling public for the most part is decent and not wishing to cause disruption. Sure you will find a%*holes in business travel (just ask, next time, how many servants the complaining biz passenger has at home!!) and the occasional disruptive in vacation travel but I really do believe that most people just want things to work, to be on time and to have explanation if things are not working to plan ...am I wrong?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: France & UK
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Psycho,
Cabin crew : "Cpt, I have a problem, this PAX keeps swearing & calling us silly cows"
Cpt : "Sorry, can't help U : pilots are hired to drive the a/c safely from A to B & that's it"
Ops Director : "Cpt, as a pilot, what suggestions would U make to reduce costs ?"
Cpt : "Sorry, can't help U : pilots are hired to drive the a/c safely from A to B & that's it".
How can U possibly make a statement like that ? Whether they like it or not, pilots are involved in a number of things besides the flying itself. & that's precisely why I like the idea of a pilot being involved in the CC recruitment process, as well as a CC being part of the pilots interview board. Having worked as both a CC & a pilot, & having hired CCs as I stated above, I found this method was by far the best, if U want a fair estimate of a candidate's potential.
Aviation is all about customer service, & that's one thing that most HR people (& apparently some pilots) know nothing about.
MF
[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: Manflex55 ]
Cabin crew : "Cpt, I have a problem, this PAX keeps swearing & calling us silly cows"
Cpt : "Sorry, can't help U : pilots are hired to drive the a/c safely from A to B & that's it"
Ops Director : "Cpt, as a pilot, what suggestions would U make to reduce costs ?"
Cpt : "Sorry, can't help U : pilots are hired to drive the a/c safely from A to B & that's it".
How can U possibly make a statement like that ? Whether they like it or not, pilots are involved in a number of things besides the flying itself. & that's precisely why I like the idea of a pilot being involved in the CC recruitment process, as well as a CC being part of the pilots interview board. Having worked as both a CC & a pilot, & having hired CCs as I stated above, I found this method was by far the best, if U want a fair estimate of a candidate's potential.
Aviation is all about customer service, & that's one thing that most HR people (& apparently some pilots) know nothing about.
MF
[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: Manflex55 ]
Those of you who have described the "Old Recruiting bat" know nothing of the high quality of Lads and Lasses that get selected by the Spotty M. I have flown with said bat many times, and find it offensive that anyone here has chosen such a term. She is a highly Professional person who i like working with.
Someone said first impressions aren't important, what complete rubbish, they set up a days work,or when you meet a person for the first time, first impressions count..
She may have been a totty, the lass who didn't get in, but one wonders why many other airlines had rejected her as well...
I'm looking forward to seeing my Fleet manager swearing on live TV etc, etc.. top hard working bloke BTW..
Someone said first impressions aren't important, what complete rubbish, they set up a days work,or when you meet a person for the first time, first impressions count..
She may have been a totty, the lass who didn't get in, but one wonders why many other airlines had rejected her as well...
I'm looking forward to seeing my Fleet manager swearing on live TV etc, etc.. top hard working bloke BTW..
Grandpa Aerotart
I agree, pilots should pick the trolley dollies 
.
Back in about 1988 while based in Lae with Talair(PNG) we were allowed to recruit the girlies(Lord knows why??? ) for the Twin Otters and Bandits......found some REALLY cute girls too.
Some years later, while Captaining a Bandit from Rabaul to Buka, I spied one of our young blokes in an Islander ahead on climb out. Well I went past him several wingspans to one side and 4/10s of a second later Glenda, one of the chosen in Lae, arrived in my cockpit with an astonished look on her face.
"Captain Chuck how did he do that!!!?"
"How did he do what Glenda?"
"How did he make the Islander fly backwards?"
Not sure how she would have gone in an emergency evac but she was always fun to fly with .
Chuck.
. Back in about 1988 while based in Lae with Talair(PNG) we were allowed to recruit the girlies(Lord knows why???
) for the Twin Otters and Bandits......found some REALLY cute girls too.Some years later, while Captaining a Bandit from Rabaul to Buka, I spied one of our young blokes in an Islander ahead on climb out. Well I went past him several wingspans to one side and 4/10s of a second later Glenda, one of the chosen in Lae, arrived in my cockpit with an astonished look on her face.
"Captain Chuck how did he do that!!!?"
"How did he do what Glenda?"
"How did he make the Islander fly backwards?"
Not sure how she would have gone in an emergency evac but she was always fun to fly with
.Chuck.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Augustus F, harsh words, "charter & low cost airlines fly scum to the sun" "Thank god for first class"!. 98% of the average public some scum bags majority not use charter flights to go on holiday. Obviously you don;t I wonder if you pay to go first class, or the airline you fly for provides you with freebie seats, we all know the answer.
Try living in the real world nobody likes a snob.
Try living in the real world nobody likes a snob.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Manflex,
The two examples you give are both situations that in my opinion falls under the term "flying the aircraft" or more precisely "managing a flight".
I think you misunderstood me, so allow me to clarify. Airlines should in my humble opinion not be run by pilots or any other group of employees except for the ones that are selling and developing the product. Part of selling the product involves operating well maintained machines which departs and arrives on time. Numeorous groups involved here, far too many to list. Should pilots have a say when the airline is hiring a mechanic, a loader or an IT specialist ? Another, and perhaps the most important, aspect is the onboard service. Please let me know how the training we recive as pilots qualifies us to evaluate the abilities of cabin staff to make our passengers feel good and want to come back. Never been part of my syllabus but then again I don't fly the heavy iron. Part of a heavy jet conversion course maybe ? I think not.
However, it is obvious that the captain has a say on all matters pertaining to his specific flight. Be it unruly pax or performance enhancing techniques. But we should not participate in hiring cabin staff or engineers because of that.
Island Air,
Well to some it is know as Human Remains
but out in the real world someone did manage to hire both you and me, so they can't be that bad right ?
The two examples you give are both situations that in my opinion falls under the term "flying the aircraft" or more precisely "managing a flight".
I think you misunderstood me, so allow me to clarify. Airlines should in my humble opinion not be run by pilots or any other group of employees except for the ones that are selling and developing the product. Part of selling the product involves operating well maintained machines which departs and arrives on time. Numeorous groups involved here, far too many to list. Should pilots have a say when the airline is hiring a mechanic, a loader or an IT specialist ? Another, and perhaps the most important, aspect is the onboard service. Please let me know how the training we recive as pilots qualifies us to evaluate the abilities of cabin staff to make our passengers feel good and want to come back. Never been part of my syllabus but then again I don't fly the heavy iron. Part of a heavy jet conversion course maybe ? I think not.
However, it is obvious that the captain has a say on all matters pertaining to his specific flight. Be it unruly pax or performance enhancing techniques. But we should not participate in hiring cabin staff or engineers because of that.
Island Air,
Well to some it is know as Human Remains
but out in the real world someone did manage to hire both you and me, so they can't be that bad right ?
