Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
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Seen this many times myself - security appear to exempt from security. I've taken to logging these and reporting them to my older's and better's. I'd recommend you all do as well.
And this highlights why I ask what level of vetting has taken place.
Paarmo - still waiting for an answer to my humourless and ironic questions.
And this highlights why I ask what level of vetting has taken place.
Paarmo - still waiting for an answer to my humourless and ironic questions.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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On a similar subject, a few months ago I left my local airport via one of the staff gates and was asked by security if I could retrieve their golf ball for them
They had been playing with it during a quiet spell and it had rolled about 15 feet (still in their view) out of the RZ...... and they didn't want to retrieve it because one of their number would have to pass back through security again
S78
They had been playing with it during a quiet spell and it had rolled about 15 feet (still in their view) out of the RZ...... and they didn't want to retrieve it because one of their number would have to pass back through security again
S78
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Not all people contributing to this post have been pilots. Some are described simply as aircrew. Please define aircrew and why after two weeks training and a verified work history which is not always checked with the thoroughness which the public think that it is they are deemed to be in a position to bypass the checks which have so far prevented another 9/11 or similar.
I thought I was on everyone's ignore button so why are you all circling like sharks waiting for your turn to bite ?.
I thought I was on everyone's ignore button so why are you all circling like sharks waiting for your turn to bite ?.
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paarmo:
are you being deliberately obtuse or just can't grasp the concept of the facts posted.
paarmo:
ahh! so you are just chumming the water!
so you are not calling it win?
Please define aircrew and why after two weeks training and a verified work history which is not always checked with the thoroughness which the public think that it is they are deemed to be in a position to bypass the checks which have so far prevented another 9/11 or similar.
paarmo:
I thought I was on everyone's ignore button so why are you all circling like sharks waiting for your turn to bite ?.
No mention of the central question and withdrawing from the debate.
I think I'll call that a win.
Goodnight and Goodbye.
I think I'll call that a win.
Goodnight and Goodbye.
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Paarmo said
'to bypass the checks which have so far prevented another 9/11 or similar.'
I really must take issue with this.
Absolute twaddle Paarmo - I'd like you to tell us the details of the plots/attacks you are referring to. Private operatives have prevented nothing - HM security forces do that work not a barrier technician. I concede that there have been such occurances in the Middle East but these do not relate to anything in an airport based scenario.
When will you understand Paarmo that UK based private operatives contribute nothing to the The War Against Terror. I feel no affinity with those who do this work at an airport - I see them as a barrier to effective engagement across the airside community.
The acronym for this war is T.W.A.T I believe Paarmo.
'to bypass the checks which have so far prevented another 9/11 or similar.'
I really must take issue with this.
Absolute twaddle Paarmo - I'd like you to tell us the details of the plots/attacks you are referring to. Private operatives have prevented nothing - HM security forces do that work not a barrier technician. I concede that there have been such occurances in the Middle East but these do not relate to anything in an airport based scenario.
When will you understand Paarmo that UK based private operatives contribute nothing to the The War Against Terror. I feel no affinity with those who do this work at an airport - I see them as a barrier to effective engagement across the airside community.
The acronym for this war is T.W.A.T I believe Paarmo.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Oh dear
A few months ago l left an aircraft on stand (as operating flight deck crew) and had to position as a pax to continue duty elsewhere.
Plainly in uniform.
ln security l was seen holding a boarding card and instructed to remove my l.D. since l was now a passenger ( l can only assume that l was allowed the clothes because the alternative would be too gruesome to contemplate )
There were three channels in use and l noticed that no one was required to remove their shoes.
" Belt and shoes off " no please, but ok.
On getting dressed a business type siddled over to ask why l was the only one required to do that.
"Because they are t@@ts" l said," but if l told them that l would get arrested "
He walked off muttering " l thought so "
From my point of view that is a major problem in the UK, l`ve not seen it anywhere else.
ln fact l regard the self stoking, rapidly expanding security industry as a hindrance to flight safety, but that`s another story.
Plainly in uniform.
ln security l was seen holding a boarding card and instructed to remove my l.D. since l was now a passenger ( l can only assume that l was allowed the clothes because the alternative would be too gruesome to contemplate )
There were three channels in use and l noticed that no one was required to remove their shoes.
" Belt and shoes off " no please, but ok.
On getting dressed a business type siddled over to ask why l was the only one required to do that.
"Because they are t@@ts" l said," but if l told them that l would get arrested "
He walked off muttering " l thought so "
From my point of view that is a major problem in the UK, l`ve not seen it anywhere else.
ln fact l regard the self stoking, rapidly expanding security industry as a hindrance to flight safety, but that`s another story.
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Now l know this is probably unfair but . .
In the wake of 9/11 l made a uk internal flight carrying an overnight bag with nothing checked in, l suppose you could call it a flying visit.
My toilet bag was extracted and embarrassment started, how stupid could l be forgetting to check the contents ? l did feel bad.
First out was the electric toothbrush with it`s one inch hardened spike, the polite and efficient security officer looked at it then at me and recognising my " 30 quid down the bog" expression, bless him, put it back.
He brightened with his next find, the nail clippers with that little filey thing hiding under the handle. As he had to, into the bin it went.
l do not blame him.
l replaced it from the chemist 20yds inside security.
An odd thing, l believe l am right in saying that no American airline banned metal cutlery at any time after 9/11. And booze for commercial profit in glass bottles has always been available airside.
Now, l am getting on a bit, but is it me ? Have l missed something ?
Ps, has anybody else coughed at waiting for airside shop stocks of water to go through the x-ray machine whilst their cheaper but still sealed bottle is binned.
lt must be me.
Pps. My Steward accidentally left his passport on board during a day stop in France this week. On return the expected glitch ( despite ID and plainly crew membership) resulted in a slight delay and police presence to the aircraft. The armed one had the grace to smile when l stopped him entering to check HIS credentials.
Ah, it is me.
My toilet bag was extracted and embarrassment started, how stupid could l be forgetting to check the contents ? l did feel bad.
First out was the electric toothbrush with it`s one inch hardened spike, the polite and efficient security officer looked at it then at me and recognising my " 30 quid down the bog" expression, bless him, put it back.
He brightened with his next find, the nail clippers with that little filey thing hiding under the handle. As he had to, into the bin it went.
l do not blame him.
l replaced it from the chemist 20yds inside security.
An odd thing, l believe l am right in saying that no American airline banned metal cutlery at any time after 9/11. And booze for commercial profit in glass bottles has always been available airside.
Now, l am getting on a bit, but is it me ? Have l missed something ?
Ps, has anybody else coughed at waiting for airside shop stocks of water to go through the x-ray machine whilst their cheaper but still sealed bottle is binned.
lt must be me.
Pps. My Steward accidentally left his passport on board during a day stop in France this week. On return the expected glitch ( despite ID and plainly crew membership) resulted in a slight delay and police presence to the aircraft. The armed one had the grace to smile when l stopped him entering to check HIS credentials.
Ah, it is me.
Last edited by non iron; 9th Aug 2008 at 02:46. Reason: ps
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my two cents.
i have been reading the thread for a while now and as a few have said, there are some muppets on here.
let me tell you a bit about myself. i work in security.
now before you all start pulling crash axes out for me, i work in night clubs but with many of the same people who do day work at heathrow or any other of the main UK airports. oh, and im also a pilot albiet still in training (hopefully in 3 weeks have my IR done).
there are alot of people who ive worked with every weekend when im in the clubs that are smart well educated guys who run their own business or are in some form of skilled job. these range from IT consultants, actors trying to get onto tv, to even one guy who works on the trading floor of a finance bank within the square mile. lets call this group 1
there are also alot of people who work the clubs during the nights, then are in day security. they eat sleep and talk security and all they know about is their SIA badge. they could be event staff, static guards, site security or even airport security. lets call this group 2
ive been working in clubs for about four and a half years now. two and a half years in management and two years as door staff, so have worked with a good few people. there is a HUGE difference in attitudes door staff show customers, depending which group they come out from.
Group 1 door staff are generaly more polite, relaxed and make better judgements about customers either coming in or if we have to remove them. they use their head and make a good decission and will let some stuff slip inorder to keep the peace. at the end of the day the guys on the front door dont want an ear ache just because someone tripped up on the stairs and doorstaff think they are hammered when they are not.
Group 2 door staff just see black and white. everything has to be either or. there is no grey area as this is what they have be told/ trained. when something happens out of the normal they are the ones screaming down the radios sounding like they have never seen a fight before. they are the ones who talk down to customers and basicaly wind them up, they are the ones who normaly get complaints (plenty of experiance of this when i was management and all for stupid little things), they are the ones who tend to cause more trouble than two guys fighting over a knocked over drink.
and guess what. at the end of the night when having a meeting or a drink, group 1 door staff talk together and group 2 door staff are on the other sofa. ofcourse its not fully seperate but one can feel the attitudes in the air. they all get on well but at the end of the day there is a different intelectual level in the conversations you can have between one group and another.
i agree with what pilots have to say about security as i do believe there is way too much stupidity and way too little common sence used. policies have been issued on knee jerk reactions by people who dont have a clue what they are talking about and just want to look like they are doing somthing in the public eye. the same policies are then inforced by people who cannot comprehend anything that falls inbetween the lines.
thats my two cents anyway. however if anyone out there is looking for a fresh young pilot any time soon give me a shout!!!
let me tell you a bit about myself. i work in security.
now before you all start pulling crash axes out for me, i work in night clubs but with many of the same people who do day work at heathrow or any other of the main UK airports. oh, and im also a pilot albiet still in training (hopefully in 3 weeks have my IR done).
there are alot of people who ive worked with every weekend when im in the clubs that are smart well educated guys who run their own business or are in some form of skilled job. these range from IT consultants, actors trying to get onto tv, to even one guy who works on the trading floor of a finance bank within the square mile. lets call this group 1
there are also alot of people who work the clubs during the nights, then are in day security. they eat sleep and talk security and all they know about is their SIA badge. they could be event staff, static guards, site security or even airport security. lets call this group 2
ive been working in clubs for about four and a half years now. two and a half years in management and two years as door staff, so have worked with a good few people. there is a HUGE difference in attitudes door staff show customers, depending which group they come out from.
Group 1 door staff are generaly more polite, relaxed and make better judgements about customers either coming in or if we have to remove them. they use their head and make a good decission and will let some stuff slip inorder to keep the peace. at the end of the day the guys on the front door dont want an ear ache just because someone tripped up on the stairs and doorstaff think they are hammered when they are not.
Group 2 door staff just see black and white. everything has to be either or. there is no grey area as this is what they have be told/ trained. when something happens out of the normal they are the ones screaming down the radios sounding like they have never seen a fight before. they are the ones who talk down to customers and basicaly wind them up, they are the ones who normaly get complaints (plenty of experiance of this when i was management and all for stupid little things), they are the ones who tend to cause more trouble than two guys fighting over a knocked over drink.
and guess what. at the end of the night when having a meeting or a drink, group 1 door staff talk together and group 2 door staff are on the other sofa. ofcourse its not fully seperate but one can feel the attitudes in the air. they all get on well but at the end of the day there is a different intelectual level in the conversations you can have between one group and another.
i agree with what pilots have to say about security as i do believe there is way too much stupidity and way too little common sence used. policies have been issued on knee jerk reactions by people who dont have a clue what they are talking about and just want to look like they are doing somthing in the public eye. the same policies are then inforced by people who cannot comprehend anything that falls inbetween the lines.
thats my two cents anyway. however if anyone out there is looking for a fresh young pilot any time soon give me a shout!!!
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Nashes
With the best will in the world mate flight crew are not customers.
Somebody buys a ticket and they ( we ) action it.
It`s the poo in between that needs sorting.
Are you related to that posh bloke with the fiddle who gives it "gor blimey guv", Nigel Kennedy ?
You know nothing.
As bad as the trolls. What`s worse l bit, l feel embarrassed after reading your previous posts.
Time for bed.
Somebody buys a ticket and they ( we ) action it.
It`s the poo in between that needs sorting.
Are you related to that posh bloke with the fiddle who gives it "gor blimey guv", Nigel Kennedy ?
You know nothing.
As bad as the trolls. What`s worse l bit, l feel embarrassed after reading your previous posts.
Time for bed.
Last edited by non iron; 9th Aug 2008 at 06:23. Reason: l`ve read Nashes previous.
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Ladusvala
Well all I can say to you is that your not often right but your wrong again. Control authorities ie, police, customs and immigration officers are not exempt security screening procedures. They are subject to the normal screening as passengers and of course pilots and aircrew. The only exception to this is an armed police officer carrying a weapon, asp or gas cannister. So, in future before putting your thoughts to pen please make sure you know what your talking about. Oh by the way, I am one of those dreaded security officers at my local airport and have searched many of our fine uniformed friends without any drama.
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non iron
Im afraid I cant agree with your comments about Nashers as I can draw the analogy from previous experience. In a previous life I was a licensee and thus worked very closely with door-staff. From there I moved into professional aviation via security management.
In the pubs it was easy to get a high quality door person as there is a certain alure of having a free night out and socialising whilst being paid. The intellect of these individuals was higher than the static officers we recruited when I was a security manager. The reason being that no one really wants to work in a drab job with very few development possibilities. I believe this is the same problem now faced by you guys in the UK.
On the face of it you have some rather draconian rules made as a knee jerk reaction, being implemented by a percentage of operatives who have no ability to conduct themselves interpersonally. Said individuals are underpaid, under-developed and as thus are at the very bottom of the job market food chain. I dont think I would be sweetness and light if I were in their shoes either.
What I truly believe is needed is nationwide accountability and audit of airport security. There should be a level playing field with sensible measures for both public and flight crew (with flight crew not being prevented from going to work in the manner that they would be able to were they not an airside worker (i.e. with a packed lunch or overnight toiletries)).
RIX
In the pubs it was easy to get a high quality door person as there is a certain alure of having a free night out and socialising whilst being paid. The intellect of these individuals was higher than the static officers we recruited when I was a security manager. The reason being that no one really wants to work in a drab job with very few development possibilities. I believe this is the same problem now faced by you guys in the UK.
On the face of it you have some rather draconian rules made as a knee jerk reaction, being implemented by a percentage of operatives who have no ability to conduct themselves interpersonally. Said individuals are underpaid, under-developed and as thus are at the very bottom of the job market food chain. I dont think I would be sweetness and light if I were in their shoes either.
What I truly believe is needed is nationwide accountability and audit of airport security. There should be a level playing field with sensible measures for both public and flight crew (with flight crew not being prevented from going to work in the manner that they would be able to were they not an airside worker (i.e. with a packed lunch or overnight toiletries)).
RIX
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whilst they were in the process of removing several areas of seating in MAN T3 to install a Boots; i had was in the queue behind several of the workmen. They were putting panel saws, screwdrivers and chisels and everyother item you would normally need to build with through the x-ray machine. (quite why they needed to x-ray a saw is beyond me though- what did they expect to find?). Anyway i passed through straight after in uniform and promptly had my bottled water nicked that i had forgotten about form last flight.
I couldn't help but think something was drastically wrong when several builder types with all kinds of dangerous tools were alowed through whilst i had some water pinched.
I couldn't help but think something was drastically wrong when several builder types with all kinds of dangerous tools were alowed through whilst i had some water pinched.
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I also have been reading this thread for a while, and thought I would add my piece. I was passing through xxx airport in the northern part of a large island on the western extremity of the British Isles a few months ago as positioning flight deck crew in uniform. My Parker pen had run out on the previous sector, so I bought a pack of refills at WH Smiths at the airport. They only sold packs of two. I put one in my pen and the other in my flight bag. Well, security searched my bag and told me that the refill in my bag was not permitted as it was deemed that it could be used as a weapon. I was however allowed to take the one that I had just put in my pen!!!! Another incident was whilst travelling as a passenger with my family. My 18 month old daughters favourite fork was removed as it was deemed also to be a lethal weapon. Having passed security ( a fork down) we ate at the airside restaurant where metal knifes and forks were in abundance. I took a knife and fork back down to security to try and show them how ridiculous the whole situation was, and reclaim daughters miniscule plastic/metal fork. You guessed it...they could not see how stupid the whole situation was and threatened to have me taken off my flight. I ceded after my wife told me to leave it alone as we would miss our flight.
Muppets...
Muppets...
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3Greens
was in the queue behind several of the workmen. They were putting panel saws, screwdrivers and chisels and everyother item you would normally need to build with through the x-ray machine
I am reminded of a story Peter Ustinov's told about passing through Cairo Airport when he was making Murder on the Nile. The UK had just donated a large sum to improve security at the airport. While P.U was waiting in line to be screened he noticed the wire to the (silent) screening wand was not plugged into the wall socket. When his turn came to be processed he turned his head away and did an imitation of a high pitched beep. The security guard jumped back in amazement and stared at his wand in disbelief ! Not a lot has changed since then . . . . has it?