Ryanair: approach incidents in the news
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Ryanair: approach incidents in the news
From Press Association:
An airline is threatening to sack pilots who fail to abide by its safety
regulations in the wake of a series of dangerous approaches to airports.
Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary has issued a memo to pilots warning
that they will be demoted the first time they make a dangerous approach, and
sacked for a second offence.
The warning follows three serious incidents in less than a year, and the
fourth in two years, involving a Ryanair jet approaching an airport too fast or
at the wrong height and being forced to abort landing.
In the latest incident to emerge, an aircraft flew so low over rooftops that
it triggered two warnings in the cockpit and sixteen complaints from alarmed
residents.
All Ryanair staff are under pressure to meet turnaround times of only 25
minutes, the tightest in the industry, and pilot unions say this can lead to
mistakes.
The memo, dated September 25 2006, a copy of which has been obtained by The
Times, states that a new disciplinary procedure is being introduced in response
to a series of "high energy approach incidents over the past two years".
It adds: "From 25th September 2006, any event involving any of our aircraft
passing the 500ft landing-gate incorrectly configured or at excessive speed... -
and which does not perform a go-around - will automatically lead to both crew
members being demoted in the case of their first transgression of this policy.
"In the event of a second transgression of this policy, the relevant crew
member will be automatically dismissed."
Pilot unions fear the memo will force the problem underground, with pilots too
frightened of losing their jobs to co-operate with efforts to find out why the
incidents were happening.
A Ryanair spokeswoman told PA: "The board of Ryanair takes safety extremely
seriously.
"Safety is Ryanair's number one priority. Our safety instruction to all
pilots is if in doubt you must perform a go-around - that is, a second approach
of the airport.
"We expect all of our pilots to follow this safety guidance at all times.
"This memo underlines the commitment of Ryanair and its pilots to passenger
safety."
end
An airline is threatening to sack pilots who fail to abide by its safety
regulations in the wake of a series of dangerous approaches to airports.
Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary has issued a memo to pilots warning
that they will be demoted the first time they make a dangerous approach, and
sacked for a second offence.
The warning follows three serious incidents in less than a year, and the
fourth in two years, involving a Ryanair jet approaching an airport too fast or
at the wrong height and being forced to abort landing.
In the latest incident to emerge, an aircraft flew so low over rooftops that
it triggered two warnings in the cockpit and sixteen complaints from alarmed
residents.
All Ryanair staff are under pressure to meet turnaround times of only 25
minutes, the tightest in the industry, and pilot unions say this can lead to
mistakes.
The memo, dated September 25 2006, a copy of which has been obtained by The
Times, states that a new disciplinary procedure is being introduced in response
to a series of "high energy approach incidents over the past two years".
It adds: "From 25th September 2006, any event involving any of our aircraft
passing the 500ft landing-gate incorrectly configured or at excessive speed... -
and which does not perform a go-around - will automatically lead to both crew
members being demoted in the case of their first transgression of this policy.
"In the event of a second transgression of this policy, the relevant crew
member will be automatically dismissed."
Pilot unions fear the memo will force the problem underground, with pilots too
frightened of losing their jobs to co-operate with efforts to find out why the
incidents were happening.
A Ryanair spokeswoman told PA: "The board of Ryanair takes safety extremely
seriously.
"Safety is Ryanair's number one priority. Our safety instruction to all
pilots is if in doubt you must perform a go-around - that is, a second approach
of the airport.
"We expect all of our pilots to follow this safety guidance at all times.
"This memo underlines the commitment of Ryanair and its pilots to passenger
safety."
end
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Good urban myth, but there's nothing remotely amusing about a hull loss for anyone concerned. The rationale for avoiding one might be slightly different from a management versus a pilot's point of view, but the final goal (safety = no losses) is always the same. If you think a go-around hits the bottom line, wait until you try a smoking hole.
All Ryanair staff are under pressure to meet turnaround times of only 25
minutes, the tightest in the industry, and pilot unions say this can lead to
mistakes.
minutes, the tightest in the industry, and pilot unions say this can lead to
mistakes.
The hardest thing to do is to fly SOPs in a correct way and have the discipline not to set uo traps for yourself...
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M'OL really doesn't have a clue.
Be fully configured at 100 miles out would seem to be an appropriate response; Wouldn't want to accidentally bust that gate, after-all.
Be fully configured at 100 miles out would seem to be an appropriate response; Wouldn't want to accidentally bust that gate, after-all.
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Turn around times
It seems crazy to me to try to turn around in 25 minutes from scheduled landing time. You fellows up front should ignore the scheduled landing time (certainly an item not under your full control) and let the appropriate staff turn the aircraft around in 25 minutes from doors open. Safety for everyone then.
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Joe, as much as I object to some of the behaviour of a certain CEO, the co has suffered very public incidents and can not be seen to bury this in the sand as if nothing happened....hence the verbose.
Basically what they are saying is what would happen in most airlines. 1 big screw up your demoted, next one your out.....the second would happening in the RHS?
I am also concerned at their continuous expansion....bremen....dusseldorf bases now. They are the doyen of the stockmarket but it just takes one smoking hole to screw it up. cia, knock, cork and the fast approach in the baltic were not pretty.
Basically what they are saying is what would happen in most airlines. 1 big screw up your demoted, next one your out.....the second would happening in the RHS?
I am also concerned at their continuous expansion....bremen....dusseldorf bases now. They are the doyen of the stockmarket but it just takes one smoking hole to screw it up. cia, knock, cork and the fast approach in the baltic were not pretty.
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How difficult is it to just go-around if you do not meet the stabilized criterea at 500 ft?
I would be interested to see to what extend untable approaches have actually contributed to the events mentioned!
I think MOL is just expressing his meaningless opinion again when it comes to safety.
Some questiones for LEO: How come thet FR needs such a memo to prevent the increased risk of unstable approaches? Does this not mean that the safety culture in FR is failing in all it's purposes?
Just a quick reminder here culture is the collective achievement characteristic of a comunity, therefore you cannot force it on somebody (many dictators have tried this and failed miserable)
Good luck to all you FR pilots in dealing with this dictator!
I would be interested to see to what extend untable approaches have actually contributed to the events mentioned!
I think MOL is just expressing his meaningless opinion again when it comes to safety.
Some questiones for LEO: How come thet FR needs such a memo to prevent the increased risk of unstable approaches? Does this not mean that the safety culture in FR is failing in all it's purposes?
Just a quick reminder here culture is the collective achievement characteristic of a comunity, therefore you cannot force it on somebody (many dictators have tried this and failed miserable)
Good luck to all you FR pilots in dealing with this dictator!
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I notice that Flights talks of 3 incident fruther to the Cork one, including Knock, Rome what was the other one, and didn't they have a Hard Pull Up in Reus a while ago?
What happened in the Baltic incident?
What happened in the Baltic incident?
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"This memo underlines the commitment of Ryanair and its pilots to passenger safety."
Infact most of the unaware public just want to see a public hanging in case somebody screws-up airplanes operations, if it is a pilot is better.
Also many in this forum (pilots or else) follow the same path.
Unfortunately this culture goes against all the last 30 years studies in aeronautical safety, that can only be enhanced by a non-blame environment.
Fast and unstabilized approaches are for sure encouraged in FR, even if not overtly, otherways I cannot see a reason for FR pilots to shoot them.
The result of this memo will be that everybody screwing an approach will try to hide it without looking further at the causes that lead to the mishap.
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So what happens when you get a little positive windshear at 550 feet and the autothrust brings you quietly back to idle for a second or two?? With O'Leary and his understanding of these things, I can see either many crew being demoted or many unecessary go-arounds in the future!
I am not suprised that RYR's chosen line of attack in an attempt to improve safety is to issue crew with strong angry threats. MOL clearly has no clue how Human Factors works.
Threat to demote or sack if you refuse to fly extra sectors at the end of your day.
Threat to demote or sack if you make an error of judgement during your flight.
Hmmmmm....
I am not suprised that RYR's chosen line of attack in an attempt to improve safety is to issue crew with strong angry threats. MOL clearly has no clue how Human Factors works.
Threat to demote or sack if you refuse to fly extra sectors at the end of your day.
Threat to demote or sack if you make an error of judgement during your flight.
Hmmmmm....
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Bearcat; I dont think anyone is suggesting that RYR should remain silent, (well I certainly wasn't) - But that to have such a huge penalty imposed on a gate which under some circumstances you can be unaware you have busted (eg 160 to 4, then tailwind/gust - then with prompt action; back to stable Vref) - It sends a powerful message that goofs of all sorts will be severely punished and if possible, it would be far better to cover them up and hope management dont notice.
The same goes for reporting deficiencies you spot in other parts of the operation - Can you imagine reporting a problem knowing the person responsible for it is likely to lose his or her job?
The same goes for reporting deficiencies you spot in other parts of the operation - Can you imagine reporting a problem knowing the person responsible for it is likely to lose his or her job?
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I'm sure we can all recognise that there may be occasions when we are suddenly aware that we might miss the gate by a fraction, but on taking the big picture into account (such as busy airspace with Spanish ATC!!!) it will be seen to be safer to continue.
(Head down while waiting for firing squad.....
)
Bearcat, this is not a public message. As I understand it, it was issued almost 5 months ago and has only just leaked out now.
(Head down while waiting for firing squad.....
)Bearcat, this is not a public message. As I understand it, it was issued almost 5 months ago and has only just leaked out now.
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I notice that Flights talks of 3 incident fruther to the Cork one, including Knock, Rome what was the other one, and didn't they have a Hard Pull Up in Reus a while ago?
this will force the reporting of incidents underground
Could demotion be another way for MOL to save money?