Ryanair: approach incidents in the news
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I am so glad i dont fly for this airline,in the airline i work for there is something called air safety report,if sth goes wrong,we come unstabilised and go around for example we give this report and we dont lose our jobs. Safety is always first,if you are flying fast to get the turnaround thats not safe guys.From one point the ceo tells the guys to be perfectly balanced and do the best approach or else they lose their job,on the other hand they must be there asap so as to reach the goal of a turnaround 25 minutes.Thats ridiculous.If i was a ryanair pilot i would be fully stabilised 50 miles out,i would never have to do a goaround since if i do one and i dont give a really great reason why i did that i would lose my job!!
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OK, before some of the usual Muppets get their knickers in a twist and start frothing at the mouth (keyboard) with indignation at the merest mention of Ryanair, this thread is not going to be open season for some of the obviously less educated and almost certainly inexperienced pilots out there, never mind the wannabes and enthusiasts. Some of you can't even keep a civil head yet try to come across as though you are experienced in airline operations and have had some sort of education that is higher than gutter level.
To begin with, whilst Ryanair are not necessarily the best of friends with PPRuNe, that does not excuse some of the posters on this and other Ryanair threads from their foul mouthed and uncouth expressions that have been making regular appearances on here. Add to the above, statements and comments that are obviously from supposed 'pilots' that show a total ignorance of the realities of day to day airline operations on a modern jet, only lead me to suspect that there are too many Flight Sim 'experts' and enthusuiast/fantasists under the misapprehension that the rest of us really care what they think.
Anyone who doesn't understand the concept of a stabilised approach and the 1500', 1000 and 500' "gateways" (dependant on IMC or VMC ops) and voices off on here about it, isn't a professional pilot or else is a cowboy working for a gash operator! Just because MOL has put his name to the memo and thereby adding to the perception of his bullying management style, doesn't mean that the directive isn't a positive and safety related one. Normally, this kind of memo is issued by the flight operations department by a chief pilot for example.
The point here, is that there needs to be some analysis of why Ryanair has been highlighted for the reported string of unstable approaches. Does the bullying style of management have a human factors influence on the pressures to have such short turnaround times which are, in effect, in some cases, having a knock-on effect on some pilots willingness to lower their own safety standards by ignoring some company SOP's?
Ryanair has been around for 22 years. Whilst it went through a massive transformation after deregulation in 1997, it as had a long time to develop a flight safety culture. The fact that MOL likes free publicity, it is a double edged sword and in instances such as the ones in the article that started this thread, can come back to haunt them.
The one thing that Ryanair will give no quarter over is their insistence that safety is one area where they will not compromise on. Most of us have no doubt that that it true. However, the scepticism that is often shown on these forums is almost certainly a product of the conflict between the management style of their leader, his lieutenants and the that of the flight operations management where flight safety, as in all other major airlines, is a priority.
If there is already a written criteria that all approaches whether in IMC or VMC conditions and whether precision, non-precision or visual, that they should be in a particular configuration by the "gateways" and if not then a mandatory go-around or missed approach should be carried out, then that is what all their pilots should be practising. Because there have been so many reports of unstabilised approaches highlighted then one needs to look at the human factors that led to these flight crews willingness to compromise their flight safety.
Unfortunately, the willingness of the regulators to study the relationship between management style or culture and flight safety is somewhat lacking. No one is saying that it is easy to define the precise links that may be behind some of the thinking that led to the breaches of flight safety in the reported unstabilised approaches. However, there is no shortage of discussion on here with speculation from a few of the more experienced and educated pilots who are able to articulate the reasons in a polite and reasonable manner. Sadly, it is the hoards of unthinking and inexperienced posters who are the ones that get PPRuNe into trouble on a fairly regular basis with comment and speculation that bears no resemblance to reality or experience.
To begin with, whilst Ryanair are not necessarily the best of friends with PPRuNe, that does not excuse some of the posters on this and other Ryanair threads from their foul mouthed and uncouth expressions that have been making regular appearances on here. Add to the above, statements and comments that are obviously from supposed 'pilots' that show a total ignorance of the realities of day to day airline operations on a modern jet, only lead me to suspect that there are too many Flight Sim 'experts' and enthusuiast/fantasists under the misapprehension that the rest of us really care what they think.
Anyone who doesn't understand the concept of a stabilised approach and the 1500', 1000 and 500' "gateways" (dependant on IMC or VMC ops) and voices off on here about it, isn't a professional pilot or else is a cowboy working for a gash operator! Just because MOL has put his name to the memo and thereby adding to the perception of his bullying management style, doesn't mean that the directive isn't a positive and safety related one. Normally, this kind of memo is issued by the flight operations department by a chief pilot for example.
The point here, is that there needs to be some analysis of why Ryanair has been highlighted for the reported string of unstable approaches. Does the bullying style of management have a human factors influence on the pressures to have such short turnaround times which are, in effect, in some cases, having a knock-on effect on some pilots willingness to lower their own safety standards by ignoring some company SOP's?
Ryanair has been around for 22 years. Whilst it went through a massive transformation after deregulation in 1997, it as had a long time to develop a flight safety culture. The fact that MOL likes free publicity, it is a double edged sword and in instances such as the ones in the article that started this thread, can come back to haunt them.
The one thing that Ryanair will give no quarter over is their insistence that safety is one area where they will not compromise on. Most of us have no doubt that that it true. However, the scepticism that is often shown on these forums is almost certainly a product of the conflict between the management style of their leader, his lieutenants and the that of the flight operations management where flight safety, as in all other major airlines, is a priority.
If there is already a written criteria that all approaches whether in IMC or VMC conditions and whether precision, non-precision or visual, that they should be in a particular configuration by the "gateways" and if not then a mandatory go-around or missed approach should be carried out, then that is what all their pilots should be practising. Because there have been so many reports of unstabilised approaches highlighted then one needs to look at the human factors that led to these flight crews willingness to compromise their flight safety.
Unfortunately, the willingness of the regulators to study the relationship between management style or culture and flight safety is somewhat lacking. No one is saying that it is easy to define the precise links that may be behind some of the thinking that led to the breaches of flight safety in the reported unstabilised approaches. However, there is no shortage of discussion on here with speculation from a few of the more experienced and educated pilots who are able to articulate the reasons in a polite and reasonable manner. Sadly, it is the hoards of unthinking and inexperienced posters who are the ones that get PPRuNe into trouble on a fairly regular basis with comment and speculation that bears no resemblance to reality or experience.
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High energy approaches, speed gates, short turnrounds.....
Will the yellow (and red) cards also be issued for the "high energy approaches to the gate" that I frequently experience AFTER we have landed?
Will the yellow (and red) cards also be issued for the "high energy approaches to the gate" that I frequently experience AFTER we have landed?
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"The one thing that Ryanair will give no quarter over is their insistence that safety is one area where they will not compromise on. Most of us have no doubt that that it true"
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
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Again, turnaround times do NOT affect approach speeds!
I work for a famous LoCo. We also have 25 minutes turnaround times and speed gates!
Turnaround is not from touchdown to take off, it's chocks on to off! How could this affect any approach is beyond me.
I work for a famous LoCo. We also have 25 minutes turnaround times and speed gates!
Turnaround is not from touchdown to take off, it's chocks on to off! How could this affect any approach is beyond me.
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Danny,
Do you mean that most of us have no doubt about their insistence or have no dount that they actually will not compromise on safety?
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/02/06/211921/ryanair-approaches-probed-again.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/02/06/211913/probe-into-ryanairs-april-series-of-possible-stansted-fog-rule-breaches-hits-buffer-as-irish.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/12/12/211032/ryanair-737-nearly-crashed.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/12/07/210977/ryanair-and-jeppesen-take-irish-air-accident-investigators-rap-over-march-aborted-high-speed.html
The one thing that Ryanair will give no quarter over is their insistence that safety is one area where they will not compromise on. Most of us have no doubt that that it true
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/02/06/211921/ryanair-approaches-probed-again.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/02/06/211913/probe-into-ryanairs-april-series-of-possible-stansted-fog-rule-breaches-hits-buffer-as-irish.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/12/12/211032/ryanair-737-nearly-crashed.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/12/07/210977/ryanair-and-jeppesen-take-irish-air-accident-investigators-rap-over-march-aborted-high-speed.html
aka Capt PPRuNe
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What some of you are misunderstanding is the difference between the flight operations department and the SOP's that are there for safety reasons and the the fact that some pilots, a tiny fraction of the whole Ryanair pilot workforce, have breached those SOP's and caused incidents that have been highlighted.
What needs to be understood are the reasons that those pilots ignored those safety related SOP's. I have no doubt it is not because there is a lack of safety culture within Ryanairs Flight Ops department. It is highly probably that there is an underlying link between the corporate management style which was recently lambasted by an Irish high court judge and the repercussions that pilots could face without independent representation.
As for the lack of a connection between 25 minute turn-arounds and rushed approaches, I think the emphasis is more on the rush to keep to the schedule rather than just the turn-around itself. What are the pressures on the commanders if there is an inherent atmosphere of intimidation or bullying from the corporate management for delays that cannot be satisfactorily explained or is there a leak of the bullying management style over into the flight ops department?
What needs to be understood are the reasons that those pilots ignored those safety related SOP's. I have no doubt it is not because there is a lack of safety culture within Ryanairs Flight Ops department. It is highly probably that there is an underlying link between the corporate management style which was recently lambasted by an Irish high court judge and the repercussions that pilots could face without independent representation.
As for the lack of a connection between 25 minute turn-arounds and rushed approaches, I think the emphasis is more on the rush to keep to the schedule rather than just the turn-around itself. What are the pressures on the commanders if there is an inherent atmosphere of intimidation or bullying from the corporate management for delays that cannot be satisfactorily explained or is there a leak of the bullying management style over into the flight ops department?
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Danny,
I couldn't agree more. It is preprogrammed in just about every pilots brain to operate safely (Hence the fact that people get so heated over discussions like these). Flight Ops in any company will have the same lean. It is entirely inappropriate to point the finger of blame at RYR's pilots or individual Ops departments.
What must be recognised is that the company culture is moving us all back in time. People must realise that corporate decisions which seem miles removed from day to day operations can have the most discreet yet signifcant effects on how people perform their tasks. RYR management do not appear to be willing or perhaps even capable of accepting that a dictatorial management style, while it will keep shareholders very happy for a while, can push the whole operation closer and closer to the edge.
As I said in another forum on a similar topic: If you stretch 50 pieces of metal to their theoretical limits, some will be fine, some will be at breaking point and some will have broken already. In the past, companies have used margins in all areas of their operations to maintain a high level of safety. The closer you get to the limits, the smaller your margins, the closer you are to disaster.
A boss that says his airline can withstand 2 hull losses, obviously has looked at safety as nothing more than a financial tool. He has seen that he can reduce the margin in order to save money and increase profits while calculating that the increased risk is still financially and economically manageable. It is a backwards trend. Not modern, forward thinking management.
I couldn't agree more. It is preprogrammed in just about every pilots brain to operate safely (Hence the fact that people get so heated over discussions like these). Flight Ops in any company will have the same lean. It is entirely inappropriate to point the finger of blame at RYR's pilots or individual Ops departments.
What must be recognised is that the company culture is moving us all back in time. People must realise that corporate decisions which seem miles removed from day to day operations can have the most discreet yet signifcant effects on how people perform their tasks. RYR management do not appear to be willing or perhaps even capable of accepting that a dictatorial management style, while it will keep shareholders very happy for a while, can push the whole operation closer and closer to the edge.
As I said in another forum on a similar topic: If you stretch 50 pieces of metal to their theoretical limits, some will be fine, some will be at breaking point and some will have broken already. In the past, companies have used margins in all areas of their operations to maintain a high level of safety. The closer you get to the limits, the smaller your margins, the closer you are to disaster.
A boss that says his airline can withstand 2 hull losses, obviously has looked at safety as nothing more than a financial tool. He has seen that he can reduce the margin in order to save money and increase profits while calculating that the increased risk is still financially and economically manageable. It is a backwards trend. Not modern, forward thinking management.
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Safety culture within No-Frills Airlines
Re: today's warning of disciplinary action against Ryanair pilots: I read in the Times (London) that Capt Evan Cullen from the Irish Airline Pilots Association is concerned about the pressure Ryanair (and presumably the other no-frills brigade) puts on staff to meet the 25min turnaround target.
I'm wondering: does this lead to corners being cut? Are pilots and crews under too much pressure? any specific incidents come to mind?
I'm a journalist working for the BBC's Radio Investigations Unit. Any replies naturally treated in strictest confidence, and don't worry about staying anonymous.
Best wishes
Ian Shoesmith
[email protected]
I'm wondering: does this lead to corners being cut? Are pilots and crews under too much pressure? any specific incidents come to mind?
I'm a journalist working for the BBC's Radio Investigations Unit. Any replies naturally treated in strictest confidence, and don't worry about staying anonymous.
Best wishes
Ian Shoesmith
[email protected]
Warning Toxic!
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Ian, instead of always just asking the questions, how about you answer some? Tell us, do you ever have days when you make an error- something that on reflection you wouldn't do again if you could re-run the events and avoid? Do you feel anyone should have the latitude to rarely do things not quite as well as they would have liked without getting totally crucified for it? Have you ever made a professional mistake and found you had journalists sniffing around for a bit of blood, despite the fact that nobody got hurt and nothing was broken?
You might resolve your investigations into justification that you are furthering the cause of safety. Believe it or not, you are not really achieving anything. The safety system is acting now to investigate how and why this happened, and that is the reason that you are aware of the incident. Being an airline pilot is always a job of fine judgement of working as close to the safety line as possible within reason. Sometimes that line isn't readily visible, and occasional minor misjudgements occur. But overall, the safety system is working fine, and will be resolved without your input, but of course you want an exciting story of death on the high seas!
You might resolve your investigations into justification that you are furthering the cause of safety. Believe it or not, you are not really achieving anything. The safety system is acting now to investigate how and why this happened, and that is the reason that you are aware of the incident. Being an airline pilot is always a job of fine judgement of working as close to the safety line as possible within reason. Sometimes that line isn't readily visible, and occasional minor misjudgements occur. But overall, the safety system is working fine, and will be resolved without your input, but of course you want an exciting story of death on the high seas!
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your post
hi there
of course I make mistakes, as my colleagues would testify. But in our daily post-programme meetings the phrase "it didn't work, x cocked something up, but at least nobody died". I'm very glad to say that's the case for us, but not always the case for pilots!
my point / purpose of my email is not to target pilots. Rather it is to examine the possibility that pilots are being put under undue pressure to meet the tough targets which (especially the lowcosts???) airlines set their flight crews.
I'm by no means a specialist in aviation matters, and I genuinely don't know the answers. That's why I'm asking, since it's surely a matter of public interest and safety?
best wishes
Ian
of course I make mistakes, as my colleagues would testify. But in our daily post-programme meetings the phrase "it didn't work, x cocked something up, but at least nobody died". I'm very glad to say that's the case for us, but not always the case for pilots!
my point / purpose of my email is not to target pilots. Rather it is to examine the possibility that pilots are being put under undue pressure to meet the tough targets which (especially the lowcosts???) airlines set their flight crews.
I'm by no means a specialist in aviation matters, and I genuinely don't know the answers. That's why I'm asking, since it's surely a matter of public interest and safety?
best wishes
Ian
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Ah Rainboe! Go easy on the poor chap!
It will suffice to say that aviation is a complicated industry with it's own built in safeguards. However, it is difficult to defend an industry and in particular an authority such as the IAA which takes over 7 months to report on the apparent breach of rules by RYR at Stansted. How can you honestly say that the system is working fine?
I would like to see would be pressure on the authorities to ensure that incidents are investigated thouroughly and objectively. Yes, the public are only aware of the RYR incidents because of the safety system investigating. But, isn't that also the point? Aviation is a closed industry. We rely completely on one or two bodies not just to investigate what happened, but also to tell us that something has happened at all. In the case of Stansted, the public are still unaware as to what actually occured.
Ian, in terms of pressure on RYR or other LoCo operators, the one thing I would love to see happen in public is the removal of O'Learys mantra that RYR pilots only work 18 hours a week and therefore can't complain. This number is based on the maximum allowed FLIGHT TIME per year of 900 hours divided by 52 weeks. It is an entirely and deliberately false indication of real life:
RYR Pilots report 45 minutes before first STD.
They also have 25 minutes between each flight for turnarounds.
And are then off duty I presume something like 30 minutes after last STA.
For a 6 sector day that means almost 3 1/2 hours on duty while on the ground.
Alowing 900 hours flying over an average of 200 days work a year makes 4.5 hours duty while actually flying per day.
Total then is 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. More than the average worker anywhere. Add in occasional delays and you get a decent picture of the way things are. MOL simply uses the understandable lack of knowledge of the general public to his advantage by putting the 18 hours a week thing into every single discussion to try to make his pilots look like moaning babies.
It will suffice to say that aviation is a complicated industry with it's own built in safeguards. However, it is difficult to defend an industry and in particular an authority such as the IAA which takes over 7 months to report on the apparent breach of rules by RYR at Stansted. How can you honestly say that the system is working fine?
I would like to see would be pressure on the authorities to ensure that incidents are investigated thouroughly and objectively. Yes, the public are only aware of the RYR incidents because of the safety system investigating. But, isn't that also the point? Aviation is a closed industry. We rely completely on one or two bodies not just to investigate what happened, but also to tell us that something has happened at all. In the case of Stansted, the public are still unaware as to what actually occured.
Ian, in terms of pressure on RYR or other LoCo operators, the one thing I would love to see happen in public is the removal of O'Learys mantra that RYR pilots only work 18 hours a week and therefore can't complain. This number is based on the maximum allowed FLIGHT TIME per year of 900 hours divided by 52 weeks. It is an entirely and deliberately false indication of real life:
RYR Pilots report 45 minutes before first STD.
They also have 25 minutes between each flight for turnarounds.
And are then off duty I presume something like 30 minutes after last STA.
For a 6 sector day that means almost 3 1/2 hours on duty while on the ground.
Alowing 900 hours flying over an average of 200 days work a year makes 4.5 hours duty while actually flying per day.
Total then is 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. More than the average worker anywhere. Add in occasional delays and you get a decent picture of the way things are. MOL simply uses the understandable lack of knowledge of the general public to his advantage by putting the 18 hours a week thing into every single discussion to try to make his pilots look like moaning babies.
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Ian good afternoon,
look at what Danny said in "Ryanair Approaches"
"What some of you are misunderstanding is the difference between the flight operations department and the SOP's that are there for safety reasons and the the fact that some pilots, a tiny fraction of the whole Ryanair pilot workforce, have breached those SOP's and caused incidents that have been highlighted.
What needs to be understood are the reasons that those pilots ignored those safety related SOP's. I have no doubt it is not because there is a lack of safety culture within Ryanairs Flight Ops department. It is highly probably that there is an underlying link between the corporate management style which was recently lambasted by an Irish high court judge and the repercussions that pilots could face without independent representation.
As for the lack of a connection between 25 minute turn-arounds and rushed approaches, I think the emphasis is more on the rush to keep to the schedule rather than just the turn-around itself. What are the pressures on the commanders if there is an inherent atmosphere of intimidation or bullying from the corporate management for delays that cannot be satisfactorily explained or is there a leak of the bullying management style over into the flight ops department?"
Also what Captainpaddy says in the same topic;
"I couldn't agree more. It is preprogrammed in just about every pilots brain to operate safely (Hence the fact that people get so heated over discussions like these). Flight Ops in any company will have the same lean. It is entirely inappropriate to point the finger of blame at RYR's pilots or individual Ops departments.
What must be recognised is that the company culture is moving us all back in time. People must realise that corporate decisions which seem miles removed from day to day operations can have the most discreet yet signifcant effects on how people perform their tasks. RYR management do not appear to be willing or perhaps even capable of accepting that a dictatorial management style, while it will keep shareholders very happy for a while, can push the whole operation closer and closer to the edge.
As I said in another forum on a similar topic: If you stretch 50 pieces of metal to their theoretical limits, some will be fine, some will be at breaking point and some will have broken already. In the past, companies have used margins in all areas of their operations to maintain a high level of safety. The closer you get to the limits, the smaller your margins, the closer you are to disaster.
A boss that says his airline can withstand 2 hull losses, obviously has looked at safety as nothing more than a financial tool. He has seen that he can reduce the margin in order to save money and increase profits while calculating that the increased risk is still financially and economically manageable. It is a backwards trend. Not modern, forward thinking management."
I would also read this thread, "Ireland: Ryanair Fears €20m Pilot Hit"
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258282
That is what many people see as the problems in Ryanair!
look at what Danny said in "Ryanair Approaches"
"What some of you are misunderstanding is the difference between the flight operations department and the SOP's that are there for safety reasons and the the fact that some pilots, a tiny fraction of the whole Ryanair pilot workforce, have breached those SOP's and caused incidents that have been highlighted.
What needs to be understood are the reasons that those pilots ignored those safety related SOP's. I have no doubt it is not because there is a lack of safety culture within Ryanairs Flight Ops department. It is highly probably that there is an underlying link between the corporate management style which was recently lambasted by an Irish high court judge and the repercussions that pilots could face without independent representation.
As for the lack of a connection between 25 minute turn-arounds and rushed approaches, I think the emphasis is more on the rush to keep to the schedule rather than just the turn-around itself. What are the pressures on the commanders if there is an inherent atmosphere of intimidation or bullying from the corporate management for delays that cannot be satisfactorily explained or is there a leak of the bullying management style over into the flight ops department?"
Also what Captainpaddy says in the same topic;
"I couldn't agree more. It is preprogrammed in just about every pilots brain to operate safely (Hence the fact that people get so heated over discussions like these). Flight Ops in any company will have the same lean. It is entirely inappropriate to point the finger of blame at RYR's pilots or individual Ops departments.
What must be recognised is that the company culture is moving us all back in time. People must realise that corporate decisions which seem miles removed from day to day operations can have the most discreet yet signifcant effects on how people perform their tasks. RYR management do not appear to be willing or perhaps even capable of accepting that a dictatorial management style, while it will keep shareholders very happy for a while, can push the whole operation closer and closer to the edge.
As I said in another forum on a similar topic: If you stretch 50 pieces of metal to their theoretical limits, some will be fine, some will be at breaking point and some will have broken already. In the past, companies have used margins in all areas of their operations to maintain a high level of safety. The closer you get to the limits, the smaller your margins, the closer you are to disaster.
A boss that says his airline can withstand 2 hull losses, obviously has looked at safety as nothing more than a financial tool. He has seen that he can reduce the margin in order to save money and increase profits while calculating that the increased risk is still financially and economically manageable. It is a backwards trend. Not modern, forward thinking management."
I would also read this thread, "Ireland: Ryanair Fears €20m Pilot Hit"
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258282
That is what many people see as the problems in Ryanair!
Last edited by alibaba; 7th Feb 2007 at 13:40.
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Rainboe, speaking as a humble SLF, can I say I think the journalist-bashing in these forums is excessive. Yes, of course there's plenty of uninformed drivel written about the industry and splashed in full colour in the newspapers, and of course much of this nonsense is very frustrating reading for industry professionals, and so fair dibs for those who vent their frustration on these forums. But surely you accept that you are happy to live in a free country where press enquiry has very few limits, and where you as a citizen and a consumer regularly benefit from the work carried out by investigative journalists? What would you have said if Ian had been a journalist investigating Farepak a year ago and you were a professional in the consumer finance industry at that time - would you have said that the industry self-regulation was going well, with precious few negative incidents, and therefore journalists should simply keep out? As George Orwell said, "journalism is a profession not to be despised", however much it rummages in the gutter.
As to Ian's question itself, I think it is a perfectly respectable one, although the positive safety record of Southwest Airlines over many years seems to suggest at least anecdotal evidence that there is no correlation between short turnarounds and safety. Whether Ryanair or any specific carrier has a good safety culture is anyone's guess, although as a pax I've always suspected it's the legacy carriers who fly closer to the safety line - but then again what do I know?
As to Ian's question itself, I think it is a perfectly respectable one, although the positive safety record of Southwest Airlines over many years seems to suggest at least anecdotal evidence that there is no correlation between short turnarounds and safety. Whether Ryanair or any specific carrier has a good safety culture is anyone's guess, although as a pax I've always suspected it's the legacy carriers who fly closer to the safety line - but then again what do I know?
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mobiles, yahoo etc
hiya
reason's very boring really ... I'm spending half of my working week in TV Centre in London, and half in the Manchester office, hence mobile is easier to get me on / ditto email - but for the record it's [email protected]!
Ian
reason's very boring really ... I'm spending half of my working week in TV Centre in London, and half in the Manchester office, hence mobile is easier to get me on / ditto email - but for the record it's [email protected]!
Ian
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the pressure Ryanair (and presumably the other no-frills brigade)
You need to differentiate between each individual airline and their own safety cultures. You also need to appreciate that they have different controlling authorities, Ryanair, Irish Aviation Authority, easyJet, BIMI baby etc on the British CAA.
I will happily fly on any airline that has an AOC from the UK CAA.
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J Class,
So what is wrong with venting our frustrations? no one that I've seen is advocating censorship of the free press.
As this isn't a financial services website/forum I would suggest that your comparison is worthless, after all, we are talking about airline safety standards
Well J class, rather than suspecting, speculating, or indeed insinuating, perhaps a quick scan through some of these forums and taking on-board the informed comment that many of us who work in the industry take the time to put forward...you could formulate or more informed opinion.
Ian, regrettably members of your professional body have less than pure motivations, when it comes to getting the story. I suspect your request for more info will be met with suspicion.
Yes, of course there's plenty of uninformed drivel written about the industry and splashed in full colour in the newspapers, and of course much of this nonsense is very frustrating reading for industry professionals, and so fair dibs for those who vent their frustration on these forums.
What would you have said if Ian had been a journalist investigating Farepak a year ago and you were a professional in the consumer finance industry at that time - would you have said that the industry self-regulation was going well, with precious few negative incidents, and therefore journalists should simply keep out?
Whether Ryanair or any specific carrier has a good safety culture is anyone's guess, although as a pax I've always suspected it's the legacy carriers who fly closer to the safety line - but then again what do I know?
Ian, regrettably members of your professional body have less than pure motivations, when it comes to getting the story. I suspect your request for more info will be met with suspicion.