Ryanair: approach incidents in the news
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Such continued pious diatribes fail to excuse the increasing number of seriously mishandled aeroplanes. Please address your attitude and safety culture to prevent an incident that we will all regret.
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What would you say, I wonder, about the unsavoury spectacle of new entry cadets working through their line training, and new DEC’s alike, being lassoed, brainwashed and told to sign on the dotted line "or else" without so much as five minutes experience of the company to formulate their own points of view?
Leo Hairy-Camel If you can show me one, one, case of IALPA bullying or intimidating any such Pilots, I promise here and now infront of everyone I will surrender my Union Card and never have any further involvment in REPA or post again. Just one! Even for you that is impressive spin, I'll give you that....
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Mr Camel
You said: "Is it reasonable to consider 4 flights out of many hundreds of thousands as being suggestive of some as yet unprobed human factors aspect of the low cost operation that is worthy of further examination?"
The answer is: "Yes."
Regards
Stoic
The answer is: "Yes."
Regards
Stoic
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Leo, if you would re-read my post. For clarification, I will re-quote the bit you refer to here with some emphasis on the relevant bits:
You appear to have conveniently left out the question mark at the end of that bit. Now, I raised the question in light of the fact that it was an Irish High Court judge that found the management style to be repressive and bullying and inferred that there was an atmosphere of intimidation from within the Ryanair management. If, there is indeed an atmosphere of intimidation or bullying within the company, which you categorically deny, then that could be a factor that should be investigated by the relevant authority or regulator.
My own sources, current and ex-Ryanair pilots, are that there is indeed a problem with the management style which is filtered down from the very top of the company. I stand to be corrected if my assumptions are wrong. However, a flat denial by Leo Hairy Camel does not do it for me. Anyone with such a rabid anti-union stance and the inability to disassociate that stance from anything remotely connected with it leaves you with little, if any, credibility amongst your fellow colleagues and pilot brethren.
As I tried to point out in the thread that relates to the Minima busting approaches at STN last year, it was not only Ryanair that had a/c break the rules. If Leo's angst and kneejerk reaction is to jump to a defence when none is actually required, then perhaps he is feeling guilty. He doth protest too much.
We have already stated on this and other threads that Ryanair is going to be spotlighted more than others if only for the fact that they are bigger and operate more sectors than all the other LoCo's. That is going to be a burden that they have to bear, not just because of the managerial problems that surface due to their litigious nature but because statistically they are more likely to have an incident. The discussion on here and the reports in Flight International are just a product of those statistics.
Finally, for Leo to impugn the journalistic skills of David Learmount is a bit wide of the mark. At least he doesn't try to pretend he is above the rest of us with his knowledge of Latin!
Unfortunately for him, if as you suggest, he has been given unlimited access to the goings on within Ryanair, does that mean that he is therefore not supposed to say anything that might be detrimental to their management style? I think I detect a whiff of the undercurrent that that so many of Ryanairs pilots and other staff complain about and we are highlighting here and in Flight International. 
What are the pressures on the commanders if there is an inherent atmosphere of intimidation or bullying from the corporate management for delays that cannot be satisfactorily explained
My own sources, current and ex-Ryanair pilots, are that there is indeed a problem with the management style which is filtered down from the very top of the company. I stand to be corrected if my assumptions are wrong. However, a flat denial by Leo Hairy Camel does not do it for me. Anyone with such a rabid anti-union stance and the inability to disassociate that stance from anything remotely connected with it leaves you with little, if any, credibility amongst your fellow colleagues and pilot brethren.
As I tried to point out in the thread that relates to the Minima busting approaches at STN last year, it was not only Ryanair that had a/c break the rules. If Leo's angst and kneejerk reaction is to jump to a defence when none is actually required, then perhaps he is feeling guilty. He doth protest too much.
We have already stated on this and other threads that Ryanair is going to be spotlighted more than others if only for the fact that they are bigger and operate more sectors than all the other LoCo's. That is going to be a burden that they have to bear, not just because of the managerial problems that surface due to their litigious nature but because statistically they are more likely to have an incident. The discussion on here and the reports in Flight International are just a product of those statistics.
Finally, for Leo to impugn the journalistic skills of David Learmount is a bit wide of the mark. At least he doesn't try to pretend he is above the rest of us with his knowledge of Latin!
Unfortunately for him, if as you suggest, he has been given unlimited access to the goings on within Ryanair, does that mean that he is therefore not supposed to say anything that might be detrimental to their management style? I think I detect a whiff of the undercurrent that that so many of Ryanairs pilots and other staff complain about and we are highlighting here and in Flight International.
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Leo Hairly Camel – the man who claims to be a Ryanair captain, but who has never uttered a single word of criticism of ANY of the acts by Ryanair discussed on PPRuNe – is now presenting himself as a safety expert. But his post gives it all away. I think he understands little about air safety and may well not be a line captain at all. No surprise that he works for an airline which frequently cites its compliance with JAR minimums as being in itself a statement about compliance with “the highest European safety standards”.
This, as far as I can see this is Leo’s first serious effort to address safety issues. As he started by criticising my judgement and comments, I would like to take the time to address his arguments. I also note the absence of the normal vitriol, so maybe he is not quite in full ideological mode today ….
First and foremost: to claim that there is sufficient evidence to merit an investigation of something is not really radical if you are in the safety business. Airlines do it all the time. What is different about Ryanair is the nature of the corporate culture and the evident inability of the organisation to consider objectively undertaking such an exercise. The unwillingness to do so in the face of evidence is perverse and unwarranted. The effort to dismiss the events he discusses as some kind of aberration on the part of Flight is also evidence of “much missing of the point”.
My statement, as quoted, merely says
It should have been noted by Leo that I did not pre-judge the outcome. I merely said that there is evidence. And there is. There is evidence of late reporting of SERIOUS incidents. There is a consistent history now in Ryanair of “late” reporting of events - after they are "discovered". (Cynics might even refer to the possibility of “cover up”). The question must be, for a safety professional, why so?
There is evidence of other repeated characteristics in some of these events – including in Ryanair’s own admission that high energy approaches consistently followed the introduction of the B737-800 from Ryanair base to base, with a delay of a few months. A reflective airline with an open safety culture would have addressed that matter. Some people in Ryanair did identify the problem. But the airline did NOT address the issue until, in the very last base, Dublin, where it enjoys a tense relationship with its pilots, the notion of demotion became popular. (More questions of the form Why? arise here too). This was followed by the famous Board memorandum which introduced, as I read elsewhere, the notion of “safety management by threat” (which pretty well sums it up).
Leo the fact that you are a partisan commentator is demonstrated by your lack of reflection and desire to defend and protect (using that characteristic Ryanair technique called attack). David Learmount is now presented as an ungrateful traitor, rather than the understated professional that he clearly is. He only suggested rather basic investigatory steps.
Mature airlines, the kind you seem to utterly despise, are much more cautious on safety matters than Ryanair. There is nothing to fear from an open and independent investigation, especially if your airline is run properly. There is even the prospect of learning something to your advantage.
But even more to the point, your silly and tendentious efforts to link a Supreme Court finding with the publication by Flight of its articles is a complete giveaway. You clearly just don’t get it. This is real. It is not about managing public perceptions or some mad plot by the enemies of Ryanair to do you down. Some people, a LOT of people, including a very large number of your employees are genuinely convinced that something is seriously awry. They may be convinced and wrong - but that is a different matter. Are your claims of
intended as a reason or an excuse for this diversionary tactic? I am aware of lots events in Ryanair that should have seen the light of day and which occurred long before REPA and other Ryanair industrial problems surfaced.
What happened here is that a report by the Irish Accident Investigation Unit triggered the latest sequence of events. Anyone with a bit of objectivity can see that. Flight is making no accusations – it is, just as I am, marshalling the evidence and saying “maybe somebody should have a look at this rather interesting set of events?” and, even, the repeated evidence from your own pilots that all is not well. There is, quite simply, just TOO much of it to be written off as a plot by bad anti-Ryanair people.
There can be no such investigation in Ryanair because the Chief Executive will never permit it to take place. Why? Because he suspects that unpleasant truths might come out. These would be truths about his impact on all of these matters. He may not actually be the person who encourages an unsafe decision by a captain – who, of course, is personally responsible – but he is the person who creates the safety culture. (But.... that is the nub of what is at issue. Remember Zebrugge? ValueJet?).
I have the advantage of knowing many Ryanair pilots who have personally told me about their experiences. I think I know why Ryanair will fight this as a public relations matter and not as a safety matter. But, in the end, it won’t work Leo. It won’t work because there is an unpleasant logic to the situation in which Ryanair finds itself and, like the sea and gravity, it will not respond to public relations, orders, memoranda, vindictive acts or threats.
These matters can only be resolved by an independent, objective and comprehensive investigation by professionals. And you, despite your safety claims, will fight that tooth and nail.
In conclusion, and as a curtsy to your Latin predilections.: Quod erat demonstrandum est?
(Apologies to all about the length, but I think an effort should be made on this one occasion, given the seriousness of the subject. Congratulations to Stoic who managed to say the same thing in two sentences!).
This, as far as I can see this is Leo’s first serious effort to address safety issues. As he started by criticising my judgement and comments, I would like to take the time to address his arguments. I also note the absence of the normal vitriol, so maybe he is not quite in full ideological mode today ….
First and foremost: to claim that there is sufficient evidence to merit an investigation of something is not really radical if you are in the safety business. Airlines do it all the time. What is different about Ryanair is the nature of the corporate culture and the evident inability of the organisation to consider objectively undertaking such an exercise. The unwillingness to do so in the face of evidence is perverse and unwarranted. The effort to dismiss the events he discusses as some kind of aberration on the part of Flight is also evidence of “much missing of the point”.
My statement, as quoted, merely says
there are grounds for being very suspicious that all is not well with safety management in Ryanair. An appropriate investigation of the many, many signs and clues of dysfunction in Ryanair is long overdue.
There is evidence of other repeated characteristics in some of these events – including in Ryanair’s own admission that high energy approaches consistently followed the introduction of the B737-800 from Ryanair base to base, with a delay of a few months. A reflective airline with an open safety culture would have addressed that matter. Some people in Ryanair did identify the problem. But the airline did NOT address the issue until, in the very last base, Dublin, where it enjoys a tense relationship with its pilots, the notion of demotion became popular. (More questions of the form Why? arise here too). This was followed by the famous Board memorandum which introduced, as I read elsewhere, the notion of “safety management by threat” (which pretty well sums it up).
Leo the fact that you are a partisan commentator is demonstrated by your lack of reflection and desire to defend and protect (using that characteristic Ryanair technique called attack). David Learmount is now presented as an ungrateful traitor, rather than the understated professional that he clearly is. He only suggested rather basic investigatory steps.
Mature airlines, the kind you seem to utterly despise, are much more cautious on safety matters than Ryanair. There is nothing to fear from an open and independent investigation, especially if your airline is run properly. There is even the prospect of learning something to your advantage.
But even more to the point, your silly and tendentious efforts to link a Supreme Court finding with the publication by Flight of its articles is a complete giveaway. You clearly just don’t get it. This is real. It is not about managing public perceptions or some mad plot by the enemies of Ryanair to do you down. Some people, a LOT of people, including a very large number of your employees are genuinely convinced that something is seriously awry. They may be convinced and wrong - but that is a different matter. Are your claims of
such blatant union ballyhoo
What happened here is that a report by the Irish Accident Investigation Unit triggered the latest sequence of events. Anyone with a bit of objectivity can see that. Flight is making no accusations – it is, just as I am, marshalling the evidence and saying “maybe somebody should have a look at this rather interesting set of events?” and, even, the repeated evidence from your own pilots that all is not well. There is, quite simply, just TOO much of it to be written off as a plot by bad anti-Ryanair people.
There can be no such investigation in Ryanair because the Chief Executive will never permit it to take place. Why? Because he suspects that unpleasant truths might come out. These would be truths about his impact on all of these matters. He may not actually be the person who encourages an unsafe decision by a captain – who, of course, is personally responsible – but he is the person who creates the safety culture. (But.... that is the nub of what is at issue. Remember Zebrugge? ValueJet?).
I have the advantage of knowing many Ryanair pilots who have personally told me about their experiences. I think I know why Ryanair will fight this as a public relations matter and not as a safety matter. But, in the end, it won’t work Leo. It won’t work because there is an unpleasant logic to the situation in which Ryanair finds itself and, like the sea and gravity, it will not respond to public relations, orders, memoranda, vindictive acts or threats.
These matters can only be resolved by an independent, objective and comprehensive investigation by professionals. And you, despite your safety claims, will fight that tooth and nail.
In conclusion, and as a curtsy to your Latin predilections.: Quod erat demonstrandum est?
(Apologies to all about the length, but I think an effort should be made on this one occasion, given the seriousness of the subject. Congratulations to Stoic who managed to say the same thing in two sentences!).
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QED.
The question mark was omitted because your sentence wasn’t quoted in its entirety. Your use of the words “what” and “if”, so helpfully highlighted in this most recent version, renders the question mark redundant, I would have thought, but thanks anyway, I suppose.
How about this one, quoted in its entirety?
Not much room for guesswork here, and before you set out highlighting probably (sic) and could, I’ve done it for you in the interests of goodwill. I know how busy you must be.
Or what about this one?
How many, exactly? So many, Mr. Fine? Context? Relevance? Purpose?
As for:_
As determined by whom? You? Well, you’ve got me there, haven’t you! There’s no doubting you’re the biggest swingin’ dick in this coral, Hos, but since you’ve so obviously pinned your colours to the anti-Ryanair (with plausible denyablity) mast, you’ll forgive me if I take your comments under advisement.
Let me finish with something you’ve written that is quite beautiful in its simple honesty and cuts to the core of my purpose.
Clearly, not the only burden. I mean to point out, where I can, that there are alternate points of view to those that are popularly held, and to question the reasons why such errant views attract such popularity. Seeking to demean me in the process does you no service and adds, in my view, to the growing clamour of those who would so gleefully relish the muzzling and demise of a growing giant. A giant who, by the way, continues to transform our industry and the regions it serves in a profoundly positive way, creating opportunities for thousands of young pilots who would otherwise remain within the surly bonds of earth.
How about this one, quoted in its entirety?
It is highly probably that there is an underlying link between the corporate management style which was recently lambasted by an Irish high court judge and the repercussions that pilots could face without independent representation.
Or what about this one?
Because there have been so many reports of unstabilised approaches
As for:_
leaves you with little, if any, credibility amongst your fellow colleagues and pilot brethren.
Let me finish with something you’ve written that is quite beautiful in its simple honesty and cuts to the core of my purpose.
We have already stated on this and other threads that Ryanair is going to be spotlighted more than others if only for the fact that they are bigger and operate more sectors than all the other LoCo's. That is going to be a burden that they have to bear
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Seeking to demean me in the process does you no service
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The thred has lost all balance as has much of the reporting of this issue in Ryanair. As real pilots who fly actual commercial aircraft in mainline airlines know there are weekly issues - some serious and not so serious. But Ryanair sadly will be targeted not due to its size - but as "when you live by the sword you will die by the sword."
I asked a grumpy PB in STN on Friday about the rumour reported in the UK Times as a fact that "100 pilots had resigned in the last month". He laughed and shuffled a spreadsheet and said less than 10 Capts and a few more FOS were leaving in the next 12 weeks. I believe that.
The REPA people have run a brilliant campaign to discredit and spin to the UK and Irish media over the last 10 days with leaked memos and supposedly authoritative advice on FTL's and rosters.
I think we all fool ourselves on this. The public will still fly with Ryanair, the stockmarket will still support Ryanair, MOL will just have an even more entrenched view on pilots pay and the only people who will suffer in all this spin are the collective Ryanair pilot's reputations. I feel very bitter as as a Ryanair pilot that a small number of Aer Lingus Union Reps and their spin have caused me to get nasty questions and innuendo about me and my work at Ryanair during social functions over this past weekend.
I asked a grumpy PB in STN on Friday about the rumour reported in the UK Times as a fact that "100 pilots had resigned in the last month". He laughed and shuffled a spreadsheet and said less than 10 Capts and a few more FOS were leaving in the next 12 weeks. I believe that.
The REPA people have run a brilliant campaign to discredit and spin to the UK and Irish media over the last 10 days with leaked memos and supposedly authoritative advice on FTL's and rosters.
I think we all fool ourselves on this. The public will still fly with Ryanair, the stockmarket will still support Ryanair, MOL will just have an even more entrenched view on pilots pay and the only people who will suffer in all this spin are the collective Ryanair pilot's reputations. I feel very bitter as as a Ryanair pilot that a small number of Aer Lingus Union Reps and their spin have caused me to get nasty questions and innuendo about me and my work at Ryanair during social functions over this past weekend.
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Inveritas can you advise me where to find the stuff - leaked by anybody - over the past 10 days about FTLs and rosters? I think you are talking nonsense and attempting to divert attention away from this discussion. Where do I find it? The memorandum (that may or may not have been leaked over the past 10 days) which you are referring to is presumably the one which was discussed in "The Times". It has been in possession of around 1,500 pilots for many months now. How could you possibly know a union leaked it? If they were going to leak it, why was that not done months ago when it was posted by them on the REPA website (along with other stuff that has not seen the light of day)? Your approach to this safety discussion has exactly the same diversionary anti-union characteristics as Leo has shown.
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But Ryanair sadly will be targeted not due to its size - but as "when you live by the sword you will die by the sword."
I have to say that Aloue sums up very accurately your other comments
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If a lot of people are suggesting there is a problem and Flight suggests an investigation why would Ryanair not just do it? Should the IAA not figure somewhere in all of this too? Why do the two of them not act, even if only to shut off all the constant complaints about both organisations? If both are confident of their position surely it would be a lot easier to bring in the experts and put the matter to bed once and for all?
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Inveritas,
Perhaps I misunderstand your post.
"The public will still fly with Ryanair, the stockmarket will still support Ryanair, MOL will just have an even more entrenched view on pilots pay and the only people who will suffer in all this spin are the collective Ryanair pilot's reputations."
Do you suggest we stop, stand by and see what happens? I understand your bitterness. If I were a hard working, law abiding Ryanair pilot (I accept that most, if not all, are) I would also be bitter about the fact that many see the problem as lying with the individual pilot. I agree that much of the discussion on this forum (not just this thread) is misguided and uneseccarily directed at the pilots themselves. But these things need to be highlighted, albeit with careful discussion. The misinformed will self righteously point the finger at one pilot and say 'I would never have done that. I am better than he' but my understanding of the basic direction of this thread and many others like it is that the truth is more complex than that and more deeply rooted in the style of the hand that governs. Perhaps with regard your companys statement on their website you will realise that the hand that governs is responsible for the 'inuendo' and 'nasty questions' that you refer to, rather than union reps.
It may be in the future we will be forced to agree through evidence or time or both that all was not as bad as we originally thought, but surely you must agree that it is better to seek an answer and resolution now than to 'tut tut' about missed opportunities later on.
Leo,
Your press releases and particularly your wonderful spiel on your website seem to indicate that there were just four rogue, unskilled and incompetent pilots who were responsible for the investigated incidents. I presume it was likely the same four who were responsible for the approaches into STN? How can you be so obtuse as to believe that your management team have no possibility of earning a portion of the blame? If your pilots have any adverse reaction to the recent events, at least they know where it came from.
To anyone who thinks that this is not about an attempt to have the public believe what is most useful, regardless of the accuracy or element of truth, I quote from Ryanairs website:
"Ryanair’s computerised inflight data monitoring system provides the airline with details of the speed and altitude of every aircraft during every flight. It is Ryanair’s unique ability to identify these errors which has given rise to these reports."
Hopefully, one day, other airlines may have Flight Data Monitoring too.
This is a war of words. And Leo recognises the threat. Hence his presence here.
Perhaps I misunderstand your post.
"The public will still fly with Ryanair, the stockmarket will still support Ryanair, MOL will just have an even more entrenched view on pilots pay and the only people who will suffer in all this spin are the collective Ryanair pilot's reputations."
Do you suggest we stop, stand by and see what happens? I understand your bitterness. If I were a hard working, law abiding Ryanair pilot (I accept that most, if not all, are) I would also be bitter about the fact that many see the problem as lying with the individual pilot. I agree that much of the discussion on this forum (not just this thread) is misguided and uneseccarily directed at the pilots themselves. But these things need to be highlighted, albeit with careful discussion. The misinformed will self righteously point the finger at one pilot and say 'I would never have done that. I am better than he' but my understanding of the basic direction of this thread and many others like it is that the truth is more complex than that and more deeply rooted in the style of the hand that governs. Perhaps with regard your companys statement on their website you will realise that the hand that governs is responsible for the 'inuendo' and 'nasty questions' that you refer to, rather than union reps.
It may be in the future we will be forced to agree through evidence or time or both that all was not as bad as we originally thought, but surely you must agree that it is better to seek an answer and resolution now than to 'tut tut' about missed opportunities later on.
Leo,
Your press releases and particularly your wonderful spiel on your website seem to indicate that there were just four rogue, unskilled and incompetent pilots who were responsible for the investigated incidents. I presume it was likely the same four who were responsible for the approaches into STN? How can you be so obtuse as to believe that your management team have no possibility of earning a portion of the blame? If your pilots have any adverse reaction to the recent events, at least they know where it came from.
To anyone who thinks that this is not about an attempt to have the public believe what is most useful, regardless of the accuracy or element of truth, I quote from Ryanairs website:
"Ryanair’s computerised inflight data monitoring system provides the airline with details of the speed and altitude of every aircraft during every flight. It is Ryanair’s unique ability to identify these errors which has given rise to these reports."
Hopefully, one day, other airlines may have Flight Data Monitoring too.
This is a war of words. And Leo recognises the threat. Hence his presence here.
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"Ryanair’s computerised inflight data monitoring system provides the airline with details of the speed and altitude of every aircraft during every flight. It is Ryanair’s unique ability to identify these errors which has given rise to these reports."
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The only low-cost airline that is worth anything is Southwest.35 years and going from strength to strength.Share price always strong.Pilots never resign.Polite cabin/check-in.Free peanuts.Happy hour.Refunds when they overbook.Actually help you when you miss a flight.Great safety record.Low cost but professional.
In Europe,we get lumbered with Ryanair and easyjet.How not to do it.The IAA wont ever do anything to hamper Ryanair's operation,theres too much money involved.Perhaps the CAA isnt so cosy and they can actually do something to take the smile off this clown's face.
As an aside,Vueling is pretty good.I use them now whenever I fly to Spain.Too new to evaluate them on safety but they've got someone on their team who knows a thing or two about customer service.
In Europe,we get lumbered with Ryanair and easyjet.How not to do it.The IAA wont ever do anything to hamper Ryanair's operation,theres too much money involved.Perhaps the CAA isnt so cosy and they can actually do something to take the smile off this clown's face.
As an aside,Vueling is pretty good.I use them now whenever I fly to Spain.Too new to evaluate them on safety but they've got someone on their team who knows a thing or two about customer service.
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inveritas - pb has lied to you and you know it.the figures are 65 captains and 64 co-pilots leaving in the next 3 months.that is 10% of the pilot workforce.ask him to see the spreadsheet he has on his computer detailing who is leaving,the dates and the listed reasons why they are leaving.
you may be the one fooling yourself here.
shocked to hear that we ruined your social occasion,tell that to the co pilots who sleep in their cars and cannot afford to eat.
I am not a union rep and we are not a small number.
looks like LEO is getting a little sensitive and doesn't like to be demeaned.no problem ****ting on his colleagues though.such a boring loser.
you may be the one fooling yourself here.
shocked to hear that we ruined your social occasion,tell that to the co pilots who sleep in their cars and cannot afford to eat.
I am not a union rep and we are not a small number.
looks like LEO is getting a little sensitive and doesn't like to be demeaned.no problem ****ting on his colleagues though.such a boring loser.
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Leo I think Grim may well be 100% correct. While I have not seen it I believe that there is a copy of a memo out there with exactly the figures Grim provides (I heard those very figures before reading them here).
But this is all a diversion, as has been said, from the fact that you Leo who claims to be a seasoned and experienced Ryanair line captain just does not understand aviation safety and how it is pursued.
That, I presume, is why you did not condemn the Ryanair Board for the disgraceful memo blaming pilots - in fact you probably support it. How come the rest of the aviation industry has got it wrong about "no blame" or "just" culture while Ryanair have got it right? When you look at the suggestive evidence such a point of view just comes across as plain nuts.
If Ryanair run true to form there will now be a legal threat insisting that this topic be deleted from PPRUNE.
But this is all a diversion, as has been said, from the fact that you Leo who claims to be a seasoned and experienced Ryanair line captain just does not understand aviation safety and how it is pursued.
That, I presume, is why you did not condemn the Ryanair Board for the disgraceful memo blaming pilots - in fact you probably support it. How come the rest of the aviation industry has got it wrong about "no blame" or "just" culture while Ryanair have got it right? When you look at the suggestive evidence such a point of view just comes across as plain nuts.
If Ryanair run true to form there will now be a legal threat insisting that this topic be deleted from PPRUNE.
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Leo The fact remains. Ryanair have been reported for several cases of aircraft being flown in an unstable manner.
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What is more shocking, the IAA appear to be not interested. The perception is that the IAA are sitting on the fence waiting for someone to push them off. I personally wish someone would make a real issue out of all this. For the sake of aviation, the passengers, and those who take flying seriously, they (Ryanair) need to be seriously investigated.
I know for a fact, 2 years ago or so, Ryanair actually wanted an aircraft to operate into a French airfield with ZERO qualified ATC cover. I stress, it didn't happen on the day, but the fact remains, they wanted it to in order to keep the show on the road.
You Leo need to wake up and get into the real world. An accident IS only a matter of time away (god forbid).
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Stansted
Knock
What is more shocking, the IAA appear to be not interested. The perception is that the IAA are sitting on the fence waiting for someone to push them off. I personally wish someone would make a real issue out of all this. For the sake of aviation, the passengers, and those who take flying seriously, they (Ryanair) need to be seriously investigated.
I know for a fact, 2 years ago or so, Ryanair actually wanted an aircraft to operate into a French airfield with ZERO qualified ATC cover. I stress, it didn't happen on the day, but the fact remains, they wanted it to in order to keep the show on the road.
You Leo need to wake up and get into the real world. An accident IS only a matter of time away (god forbid).
Last edited by bacardi walla; 12th Feb 2007 at 09:46.
Plumbum Pendular
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Avionics Bay
Age: 55
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Isn't Flight Data Monitoring a legal requirement on all UK regiseterd aircraft anyway now?
Even if it isn't mandatory I can't think of any UK airline that doesnt have it.
"It is Ryanair’s unique ability to identify these errors which has given rise to these reports."
So is that why they went for so long being unreported to the IAA?
I think that Leo is trying to use smoke and mirrors to distract the journalists from what I am sure is about to be a massive media expose.
Even if it isn't mandatory I can't think of any UK airline that doesnt have it.
"It is Ryanair’s unique ability to identify these errors which has given rise to these reports."
So is that why they went for so long being unreported to the IAA?
I think that Leo is trying to use smoke and mirrors to distract the journalists from what I am sure is about to be a massive media expose.