Body found in landing gear bay on BA B744 @ LAX
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FAA time...
given the FAAs massive over-reaction to the 3 engine BA 744 at LAX, I wonder whether the pencil pushers are licking their lips at the thought of having another go. I bet they'll peek at the wheel well's of some 2 engine Boeing products, and if this seems like a solely 744 issue then they'll be pushing for extensive wheel well checks with stepladders and all at every stop......
nothing like helping the local team...
S
nothing like helping the local team...
S
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A friend visited Cuba a couple of years ago. The crew made mention of the 4 x 4 that parked nearby to observe the aircraft's taxi and departure - so that no stowaways could make a run for it.
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Gatwick Xmas 2003 incident
The 777 had come in from Cuba. Notes found there showed the 2 stowaways intended to get to Florida; they probably chose the wrong aircraft.
It appeared from investigations that the stowaways had been hiding in long grass, avoided the security vehicle's lights (night departure) and climbed up the gear leg into the wheel-bay after it left the holding point and was turning slowly onto the runway - all under the eyes of two airport security guards whose job it was to make sure that didn't happen, or to stop the take-off if necessary.
As the pros will know, a 777’s wheel-bay doors open during gear operation and then close again with the gear down leaving a small gap around the leg – big enough for agile youngsters to use. Presumably, they lodged themselves securely in the wheel-well so they wouldn’t fall out when the doors opened to retract the gear.
BA had its own security around the aircraft the entire time it was at the gate from landing to departure, in addition to what the airport describes as its security. BA had repeatedly complained about airport security and, in particular, holes in the perimeter fence. BA's request to have its own vehicle/personnel follow the aircraft from the gate had been refused, but the airport arranged for a security vehicle to do so and to wait at the holding point until it departed.
If I recall correctly, the first body fell out on approach to LGW. It was thought that the second body defrosted and dislodged while the aircraft was at LGW overnight and fell into the bottom of the ‘U’ shape made by the closed doors. It wouldn't be visible during external checks.
It fell out when the gear was raised after take-off for Mexico the next day.
It is impossible to see down into the wheel-well from the ground. I checked during the course of preparing for the Inquest.
In theory, the doors could be cycled on the ground but that has its own risks. Doing so at an airport where there is no engineering support in the event of a problem during recycling isn’t a practical option.
The 777 had come in from Cuba. Notes found there showed the 2 stowaways intended to get to Florida; they probably chose the wrong aircraft.
It appeared from investigations that the stowaways had been hiding in long grass, avoided the security vehicle's lights (night departure) and climbed up the gear leg into the wheel-bay after it left the holding point and was turning slowly onto the runway - all under the eyes of two airport security guards whose job it was to make sure that didn't happen, or to stop the take-off if necessary.
As the pros will know, a 777’s wheel-bay doors open during gear operation and then close again with the gear down leaving a small gap around the leg – big enough for agile youngsters to use. Presumably, they lodged themselves securely in the wheel-well so they wouldn’t fall out when the doors opened to retract the gear.
BA had its own security around the aircraft the entire time it was at the gate from landing to departure, in addition to what the airport describes as its security. BA had repeatedly complained about airport security and, in particular, holes in the perimeter fence. BA's request to have its own vehicle/personnel follow the aircraft from the gate had been refused, but the airport arranged for a security vehicle to do so and to wait at the holding point until it departed.
If I recall correctly, the first body fell out on approach to LGW. It was thought that the second body defrosted and dislodged while the aircraft was at LGW overnight and fell into the bottom of the ‘U’ shape made by the closed doors. It wouldn't be visible during external checks.
It fell out when the gear was raised after take-off for Mexico the next day.
It is impossible to see down into the wheel-well from the ground. I checked during the course of preparing for the Inquest.
In theory, the doors could be cycled on the ground but that has its own risks. Doing so at an airport where there is no engineering support in the event of a problem during recycling isn’t a practical option.
Well, the simple answer then is to get some engineering support. Get the job done properly as some airlines already do.
EG USAIR A330. All landing gear doors are extended each layover check for a thorough inspection. No risk as long as you have engineering personel (who know what they're doing) to carry out and certify the task.
The 747 body gear bay, by the way, is clearly visible with a good torch and an average size person standing on the wheel rim. The wing gear is another story.
EG USAIR A330. All landing gear doors are extended each layover check for a thorough inspection. No risk as long as you have engineering personel (who know what they're doing) to carry out and certify the task.
The 747 body gear bay, by the way, is clearly visible with a good torch and an average size person standing on the wheel rim. The wing gear is another story.
Why not post lighted stickers in several languages in the well stating "you will die from suffocation and freezing or crush injury if you remain here after takeoff" in this area in a few locations?
I'm not trying to be silly, this is very sad.
I'm not trying to be silly, this is very sad.
Paxing All Over The World
Pax speaking
Turin
As I understand it, these problems have occurred after a turn-around, not a layover? That is, interpreting 'layover' as being one that involves very specific engineering checks when the a/c is at a base, rather than a two or three hour turn down line, such as JNB or NBO.
PA. You think that the stowaway will be able to read and that, even if they can, having got that far they are going to jump out again?
galacticosh As a Probationary PPRuNer, you should either learn some manners or you are being deliberately stupid.
Turin
All landing gear doors are extended each layover check for a thorough inspection.
PA. You think that the stowaway will be able to read and that, even if they can, having got that far they are going to jump out again?
galacticosh As a Probationary PPRuNer, you should either learn some manners or you are being deliberately stupid.
Combine Operations
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Why not post lighted stickers in several languages in the well stating "you will die from suffocation and freezing or crush injury if you remain here after takeoff" in this area in a few locations?
Not being silly, or sarcastic, but I've no doubt it would have the same effect.
I agree, very sad.
Chocks Away!
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You would think that perhaps they could modify the design of the well so that it is somehow 'filled' when the wheels are down (be it an inflatable bladder, a flap, plunger - it could even be a cheap disposable system that is changed per flight) . Another idea may be to put a simple sensor in the well to detect the presence of a person or object (microswitches, PIR, strain gauges).
It's a terrible sad event, and the more that can be done to prevent it would be welcomed.
It's a terrible sad event, and the more that can be done to prevent it would be welcomed.
Paxing All Over The World
As I recall, the last time this subject was discussed in PPRuNe, there were suggestions of mini cameras and lights in the wheel wells. All of that will bring these questions from the operator: Who will pay? (and) Whose fault is it if people break through security fences and climb inside our a/c?
Getting information back to the countries where they try their luck is needed. With photographs of what they look like at the other end.
Getting information back to the countries where they try their luck is needed. With photographs of what they look like at the other end.
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I hate to be cynical, but....
These people mostly can't read....
Stickers in the wheel well would be too dark to see, and would be ignored.
Photos? These people don't read newspapers.
Put photos up at the airports, and on the fences? They would be torn down in no time by the intermediaries in this business, and by the security guards, that are getting paid for looking the other way, knowing full well there will never be any come-back from their clients.
I wish I had an answer.... barbed wire? Anti-bird netting in the wheel well? A campaign with leaflets in the right places with two photos... "don't try this" / "or you'll end up like this" ?
And to be pragmatic...
Hundreds die in small boats trying to get to the Canaries, or across the Mediterranean.
Let's put our efforts in trying to solve that first......
These people mostly can't read....
Stickers in the wheel well would be too dark to see, and would be ignored.
Photos? These people don't read newspapers.
Put photos up at the airports, and on the fences? They would be torn down in no time by the intermediaries in this business, and by the security guards, that are getting paid for looking the other way, knowing full well there will never be any come-back from their clients.
I wish I had an answer.... barbed wire? Anti-bird netting in the wheel well? A campaign with leaflets in the right places with two photos... "don't try this" / "or you'll end up like this" ?
And to be pragmatic...
Hundreds die in small boats trying to get to the Canaries, or across the Mediterranean.
Let's put our efforts in trying to solve that first......
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Perhaps you may recall another stowaway incident at LAX. It had occurred on an inbound Air Pacific 744 flight from Fiji just a few years ago. The ground crew were in shock as they witnessed the lucky stowaway climb out of the left main body gear well, and sprint away across the tarmac. Though he was captured, it is still a mystery on how he had survived the 11 hr trans Pacific flight!
It was theorized that he had stayed warm while huddled to the pac ducting, and that also perhaps the airtight gear door seals had saved him.
It was theorized that he had stayed warm while huddled to the pac ducting, and that also perhaps the airtight gear door seals had saved him.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Tigger!
This is demented! Are you seriously believing any of this garbage is even worth considering? 'Inflatable bladders'? If you don't know what a wheel well looks like, keep out of this discussion! 'Flap'? What, like an undercarriage door? 'Plunger'? What sort of 'plunger'? Like for cleaning toilets? A 'cheap disposable system that is changed per flight'. Do us a favour........zip it!
You would think that perhaps they could modify the design of the well so that it is somehow 'filled' when the wheels are down (be it an inflatable bladder, a flap, plunger - it could even be a cheap disposable system that is changed per flight)
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Contrary to popular belief this is not that uncommon!
I have personally been involved with 2 incidents, one hopeful in a B747 WW & another in an A300.
the former being MH747 from Kuala Lumpur arriving in JNB & latter EK from JNB/Comoros arriving in DXB!
The second idiot apparently did a few sectors as well, prior to discovery!!!
Hence the now present procedure to open landing gear doors for inspection on every Daily check, however only on the airbus 330 & 310
as some people still believe this cannot occur on a B777 or A340!!!
HAWK21- one can practically see the entire areas of the B747 wheel wells from the ground with a flashlight or the lights switched on, by standing inboard of the aft body gears axles looking forward, especially where one "in the know" could easily position himself to be clear of the gears coming in! However, there is the temperature penalty & then the loss of oxygen so ones chances in any flight greater than 30mins are zero!
If you're really short it would require a jump or two or standing on the wheel rim!
I take particular time to inspect wheel wells especially of flights from certain parts of the world, looking for stowaway hopefuls, or whats left of them!
The damage to aircraft parts or systems would be my priority.
PA- I like your sense of humour!
Reminds me of the decal on the B777 #2 cockpit window, which alerts flying crew to the fact that his window is open when slid back!!!
Tigggermoth- You have to be kidding Man?
Aircraft are designed for minimum weight & for the operation of "reasonably intelligent" individuals. Idiots or the ignorant who get too close to them are only putting their lives & others around them in grave danger.
Paxboy- in full agreement. Pictures of blood & guts & dismembered bodies hanging out of wheel wells, displayed around airports in these 3rd world outfits would be the only effective solution.
I cant say I find this at all SAD, other than the stupidity of the individual involved! And then there's the Movies...... Sorry!
I have personally been involved with 2 incidents, one hopeful in a B747 WW & another in an A300.
the former being MH747 from Kuala Lumpur arriving in JNB & latter EK from JNB/Comoros arriving in DXB!
The second idiot apparently did a few sectors as well, prior to discovery!!!
Hence the now present procedure to open landing gear doors for inspection on every Daily check, however only on the airbus 330 & 310
as some people still believe this cannot occur on a B777 or A340!!!HAWK21- one can practically see the entire areas of the B747 wheel wells from the ground with a flashlight or the lights switched on, by standing inboard of the aft body gears axles looking forward, especially where one "in the know" could easily position himself to be clear of the gears coming in! However, there is the temperature penalty & then the loss of oxygen so ones chances in any flight greater than 30mins are zero!
If you're really short it would require a jump or two or standing on the wheel rim!
I take particular time to inspect wheel wells especially of flights from certain parts of the world, looking for stowaway hopefuls, or whats left of them!
The damage to aircraft parts or systems would be my priority.
PA- I like your sense of humour!
Reminds me of the decal on the B777 #2 cockpit window, which alerts flying crew to the fact that his window is open when slid back!!!
Tigggermoth- You have to be kidding Man?
Aircraft are designed for minimum weight & for the operation of "reasonably intelligent" individuals. Idiots or the ignorant who get too close to them are only putting their lives & others around them in grave danger.
Paxboy- in full agreement. Pictures of blood & guts & dismembered bodies hanging out of wheel wells, displayed around airports in these 3rd world outfits would be the only effective solution.
I cant say I find this at all SAD, other than the stupidity of the individual involved! And then there's the Movies...... Sorry!
None but a blockhead
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I think the incident reported at the end of the LA Time's coverage of the incident says a great deal about the state of mind of those who try...
Little is known about stowaways' motivations because so few survive. Many hail from impoverished nations and board planes bound for North America or Europe, presumably seeking better lives.
That was the case of two 14-year-old boys whose bodies were found in the wheel well of a plane in Brussels after a flight from their West African home country of Guinea. In that case, a letter was found in one of the boys' pockets. Signed by both boys, it said they wished to bring attention to the suffering of children in Africa. Written in French, the letter explained: "If you see that we have sacrificed and risked our lives, it is because there is too much suffering in Africa and we need you to struggle against poverty and put an end to war in Africa. Nevertheless, we want to study and we ask you to help us in Africa to study to be like you."
That was the case of two 14-year-old boys whose bodies were found in the wheel well of a plane in Brussels after a flight from their West African home country of Guinea. In that case, a letter was found in one of the boys' pockets. Signed by both boys, it said they wished to bring attention to the suffering of children in Africa. Written in French, the letter explained: "If you see that we have sacrificed and risked our lives, it is because there is too much suffering in Africa and we need you to struggle against poverty and put an end to war in Africa. Nevertheless, we want to study and we ask you to help us in Africa to study to be like you."
N4790P
Rainboe,
Are you not being a tad unkind about these poor individuals?
It is their ignorance of aircraft and most likely $$$ to the local ‘security’ staff that is killing them, but garbage!
Are you not being a tad unkind about these poor individuals?
It is their ignorance of aircraft and most likely $$$ to the local ‘security’ staff that is killing them, but garbage!
Well , at least thats one less individual on welfare that my taxes go to.Or perhaps he landed at LHR,looked out and saw it was more third world than were he had come from and decided to continue his journey! Will l have to bring a stepladder to work as well as a torch to inspect the wheelwell bays? Wont that be construed as tradesmans tools and banned from taking it through security?
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Can just see it.....pre-departure inspection, just prior to push back (or why not on the threshold).....release landing gear doors to inspect bays.....oh dear forgot the 747 doors hit the ground when the aircraft is fueled....oh well back to the ramp for new doors....
If the silly bu....rs want to stow away thats their risk...what ever you do they will try....at least we didn't get sadled with another freeloading imigrant for the tax payers to support....
If the silly bu....rs want to stow away thats their risk...what ever you do they will try....at least we didn't get sadled with another freeloading imigrant for the tax payers to support....
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NWT,
My thinking is more what someone could carry in.
There are, unfortunately, some who consider that dying for a cause is the way to go and so might see this as something to exploit. For them, the outcome is the same; it's what they might carry with them, which concerns me.
My thinking is more what someone could carry in.
There are, unfortunately, some who consider that dying for a cause is the way to go and so might see this as something to exploit. For them, the outcome is the same; it's what they might carry with them, which concerns me.
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Stickers in the wheel well would be too dark to see
But there's no point in the sticker idea. If people want to stow away, they'll do it anyway.