BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat
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I can see why you think the results didnt make a strike worthwhile but you forget that the majority of ground staff are not on the very generous salary package that you are and an increase in pensionable pay and extra increments would make a big difference to their standard of living
As far as the pensions deal goes, we appear to be going round in circles.
All I can add is that flying crew were promised their pensions at 55 and you were promised yours at 60. Now we are both at 65. Both of these were part of our existing remuneration packages in the same way as pay & conditions are. Flying crew are having their package changed by more than ground staff, hence the 'sweetner' as you call it or 'transitional arrangement' as BA called it. As has been stated many times before, the trustees are happy with it and they have legal obligations to ensure fairness.
ATB
Last edited by Flying Fred; 1st Feb 2007 at 18:35.
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Jet II - I thought it was civil - just robust debate brought out by frustration at the inaccuracies being perpetrated by some - if you're offended, perhaps you should go elsewhere... 
Fred - no fear of me 'shouting' anyone down - they can all stand up for themselves But I take your point that a lot of crew have been kept in the dark by BASSA.
As M.Mouse says
Watching the BASSA spin unfold over this issue is like watching New Labour choosing a good day to bury bad news...
Fred - no fear of me 'shouting' anyone down - they can all stand up for themselves
But I take your point that a lot of crew have been kept in the dark by BASSA.As M.Mouse says
This is getting tedious.
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What about mainline staff affected in the regions
I think the cc unions have done a great job for everyone in cc,
but what about all those mainline ground staff around the regions who are about to lose their job due to the sale of BA connect, they are all dedicated staff some with 25 years or more service soon to be shown the door while BA ships a third party agent in to take our jobs over!
Maybe some of you lucky one can show some support for us ???
but what about all those mainline ground staff around the regions who are about to lose their job due to the sale of BA connect, they are all dedicated staff some with 25 years or more service soon to be shown the door while BA ships a third party agent in to take our jobs over!
Maybe some of you lucky one can show some support for us ???
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The company offered £15M P/A Transition Arrangement to offset the changes to flying staff for a period of 5 five years I think. (£9M-pilots,£6M-Cabin Crew)
.
My understanding is that this £15M will be forever and will increase each year as per normal pay rises.
.
My understanding of being Fair would be to give all ground staff a pensionable pay rise of 18.75% at a point 5 years into any new NAPs deal, to do anythink else is unFair.
.
A previous comment mentions pension changes have been set in stone as of the 4th Jan 2007, I also understand this is not the case.
.
Interesting times ahead
.
My understanding is that this £15M will be forever and will increase each year as per normal pay rises.
.
My understanding of being Fair would be to give all ground staff a pensionable pay rise of 18.75% at a point 5 years into any new NAPs deal, to do anythink else is unFair.
.
A previous comment mentions pension changes have been set in stone as of the 4th Jan 2007, I also understand this is not the case.
.
Interesting times ahead
Controversial, moi?
My understanding is that this £15M will be forever and will increase each year as per normal pay rises.
My understanding of being Fair would be to give all ground staff a pensionable pay rise of 18.75% at a point 5 years into any new NAPs deal, to do anythink else is unFair.
A previous comment mentions pension changes have been set in stone as of the 4th Jan 2007, I also understand this is not the case.
You seeem intent on continuing to post your unfounded assertions because you either do not understand what you are talking about or you are trolling.
Either way, you win, I give up.
Is n't that what BA management were saying about a year ago?
And another thing.
If the pay deal had been done in October then it would have been based on September's RPI (3.6%) not December's (4.4%).
Can't be bothered to do the numbers but have BASSA really got a good deal?? I don't think so.
And another thing.
If the pay deal had been done in October then it would have been based on September's RPI (3.6%) not December's (4.4%).
Can't be bothered to do the numbers but have BASSA really got a good deal?? I don't think so.
Geoff Hurst as BASSA Rep?
Bleedin Heck Guys, will this never stop? Imagine if 40+ years down the road people were still debating wether a World Cup Final goal was legitimate...l..oh hang on, they still are.
"....they think it's all over"...I wish it was
"....they think it's all over"...I wish it was
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Finally, there has been agreement on all sides
Hopefully now the septic comments and thoughts will stop, the industrial relationship can improve, and we can get on with the massive task of making BA the worlds favourite airline
Hopefully now the septic comments and thoughts will stop, the industrial relationship can improve, and we can get on with the massive task of making BA the worlds favourite airline
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It was a good agreement all round.
Both sides should be happy with the outcome, although ultimately it just looks like a pay-off.
If disputes can be settled by just throwing money at it, then it hardly strengthens BASSA's position for the future, does it?
Both sides should be happy with the outcome, although ultimately it just looks like a pay-off.
If disputes can be settled by just throwing money at it, then it hardly strengthens BASSA's position for the future, does it?
Controversial, moi?
From my understanding BASSA threw CC's own money at the 'problems'.
From the conversations with my crew yesterday realisation is starting to dawn that they have blindly followed an ultimately self-destructive course.
From the conversations with my crew yesterday realisation is starting to dawn that they have blindly followed an ultimately self-destructive course.
Paxing All Over The World
This in The Independent of Monday 5th Feb.
BA cabin crew accuse T&G union boss of 'selling out' over strike
By Michael Harrison, Business Editor
Published: 05 February 2007
The head of the Transport and General Workers' Union, Tony Woodley, is to face the wrath of British Airways cabin crew furious at the way they believe the union leadership "sold out" in last week's deal to avert a strike.
Mr Woodley, the union's general secretary, had been due to appear today before a mass meeting of cabin crew at a hotel near Heathrow to defend the settlement, but it has been delayed for a week in an attempt to allow tempers to cool.
http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...cle2237734.ece This link might time expire.
If this is correct, then the whole issue could 'mushroom' somewhere else. That is not to say in a strike but in a further decline of attitude and dedication. After all that has been said in this thread and the media, I am surprised that they do not appear to have understood the old phrase, "You are standing into danger".
BA cabin crew accuse T&G union boss of 'selling out' over strike
By Michael Harrison, Business Editor
Published: 05 February 2007
The head of the Transport and General Workers' Union, Tony Woodley, is to face the wrath of British Airways cabin crew furious at the way they believe the union leadership "sold out" in last week's deal to avert a strike.
Mr Woodley, the union's general secretary, had been due to appear today before a mass meeting of cabin crew at a hotel near Heathrow to defend the settlement, but it has been delayed for a week in an attempt to allow tempers to cool.
http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...cle2237734.ece This link might time expire.
If this is correct, then the whole issue could 'mushroom' somewhere else. That is not to say in a strike but in a further decline of attitude and dedication. After all that has been said in this thread and the media, I am surprised that they do not appear to have understood the old phrase, "You are standing into danger".
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What you need to understand is that the BASSA reps are desperately searching for a scapegoat to disguise the fact that they were never going to have their demands met and have failed to deliver. They are very keen to blame Tony Woodley, I believe going so far as to publish that article in thir forum. They are also fabricating a whole new scenario where the clever old BASSA reps had thought of a better solution to the pensions problem (pretty impressive given that they hadn't thought of it by the 5th of Jan) but it was vetoed by BALPA! I'd like to say you couldn't make it up, but they just did.
They also seem to regularly overlook the fact that 6 of their 9 union reps voted for this outcome. If they were being stitched up by TGWU then why didn't they all vote no?
They also seem to regularly overlook the fact that 6 of their 9 union reps voted for this outcome. If they were being stitched up by TGWU then why didn't they all vote no?
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For those of stamina who have been following this whole sorry saga the thread would not be complete without seeing how BASSA saved the day for everybody and are truly to be admired.
If anybody is puzzled where the CC anti - FC sentiments originate read the paragraphs on pensions if nothing else. The viciousness and gross lack of truth really says it all.
POST STRIKE UPDATE 05 February 2007
OVERVIEW
Since the amazing result announced at the Branch meeting on 15th January 2007, most of what you know by now is history, but we thought it prudent to share with you the actions taken.
In the following week after the meeting, BA's arrogance and contempt continued in various meetings that took place between ourselves, which still surprised us.
It was not until BA were served with the legal 7 days noticed that attitudes began to change, albeit incredibly slowly.
About halfway through the following week it was suggested that ****** and ***** meet with Willie Walsh and ******, in order to meet the face of BASSA and to have a no holds barred meeting, where firm views could be exchanged. This they did and on the first occasion met for just over 5 hours finishing just before midnight and again the following afternoon for a further 4 hours. In fact on the second meeting the 4 of them finalised the EG300 document that you see now.
Both sides agreed that the meetings had been useful, if frank.
The following day Tony Woodley, General Secretary of the TGWU, met Willie Walsh to thrash out the post '97 pay scales. The following day he called for a meeting with the 9 members of the BASSA Branch Committee to report back on his meeting. It was agreed that night to meet BA, for them to officially put their proposals forward to BASSA and then to continue in secret talks over the weekend, to see if an agreement could be reached to advert the strike. This as you know happened and at approx 1300 GMT on Monday 29th January 2007, the committee took a vote and the majority decided that the strikes should not go ahead.
In the decision making, everything that had happened in the past 14 days was taken in to consideration, including every meeting, every view, every comment and every possibility and the majority decided that if the strike went ahead that a better deal could not be reached and the deal that we had negotiated would possibly be off the table also.
The senior reps involved gave 101% of their time, energy, effort, commitment and concentration to study and argue for the best possible deal, taking EVERYTHING and EVERYONE in to consideration, regardless of grade, contract type or fleet.
All of them at the end of it were exhausted and believed they had aged 10 years!
Although we expected that some crew would be disappointed with the deal and that they didn't have their 2 days on the picket line, we would hope that they accept that the reps when making an incredibly difficult decision like they had, did so NOT lightly and did it taking in to account the WHOLE of the membership.
What transpired on the crew forum within hours of the announcement of the strike being called off, was although not surprising due to the tension of the situation, was unjustified in that a handful of crew were personally attacking and criticising individual reps. In our opinion with NO idea of the previous 14 days and its content, this criticism was untimely and unjustified. What was heartening though was the hundreds and hundreds of emails and private messages we received thanking us for our hard work and for the deal that had been negotiated, along with their amazement and disgust on some of the anonymous comments made.
As part of the negotiation and in the spirit of moving forward, Willie Walsh wants to personally meet ***** and ******, the two Convenors, starting this Tuesday 6th Feb and then every 3 months to avoid a repeat of the breakdown in relations and to raise any serious concerns or items that need addressing.
No other Chief Executive has ever offered this and we hope that this will be a positive step in the right direction for all parties concerned.
Some crew have asked 'was this the best deal that we could have done?' Pensions was a closed item, ***** and ***** confirmed this every time they tried to raise it, Willie would not budge. He had his deal with the mother TUs on 5th January and he was not letting go. (See the pension article)
Given the nature of the circumstances, the breakdown in industrial relations and trust, coupled with the above, some had hoped for more BUT considering what we were facing, we believe we have not only delivered a deal, but have also regained trust and respect for both you and BASSA. Yes two quality reps offered their resignation from the Branch Committee (but not as reps), we hope that when emotions die down, they will return to the Branch Committee and we can all move forward together, because that is what makes us stronger. No individuals are bigger than the membership, we are all here at your behest, and we should never forget that fact
EG300
Since BA's request in October 2005, for BASSA to 'take a leap of faith', the history behind EG300 has been well documented. After its introduction in October 2005, BASSA spent months trying to ensure that the policy took our unique working environment and lifestyle into consideration when crew entered into EG300. After many meetings, it was clear that the only place the 'leap of faith' had taken us, was towards the recent breakdown in industrial relations and our subsequent ballot.
All BASSA had ever wanted was an acknowledgement that cabin crew have to treat their health and fitness more harshly than those working on the ground and that this fact should be reflected in EG300.
Once our ballot result was announced, BA approached BASSA to begin negotiations on EG300, amongst other things. During the talks BA finally acknowledged that certain illnesses do stop crew from flying, this admission was a key part of any deal. Progress continued to be made during the negotiations, including the reinstatement of Flying Crew Orders and a list of various conditions that would exclude crew from being able to carry out their cabin crew duties.
In the new spirit of moving forward, these changes should hopefully work in ensuring that crew are treated in a fair and consistent way. The list includes the following:
Colds and Flu resulting in blocked ears
Diarrhoea & Vomiting
One-off life events (for example, surgery, broken limb, one-off injury, severe emotional trauma)
Down-route sickness (where reported to Global Lifeline). Information from the senior Cabin Crew member will also be taken into account.
Pregnancy related sickness
There is also recognition that an injury sustained whilst on BA premises will be dealt with under the industrial injury framework, which will be added to the cabin crew procedures document.
Arrangements for IVF will be handled within the Family Friendly Working Group.
Unlike before, once you report fit, the normal practice will be for an occasion of absence relating to one of these conditions to be discounted, however, the line manager will endeavour to look at all the circumstances when making this decision. Where applicable, discounting should take place prior to an ARI.
Also, where an individual has no occasions of absence in a 21 month period, the normal practice will be for the next occasion to be discounted, however, the line manager will endeavour to look at all the circumstances when making this decision.
The following texts will also be reinstated in Flying Crew Orders (FCO):
The grounds for declaring oneself unfit for duty are sickness, injury or fatigue:
Cabin Crew are expected to judge these matters more rigorously than ground staff because they have a prime responsibility for safety procedures as well as handling food and work at close quarters with passengers.
Many crew members will be away for a number of days after they report for work, so this means that a cold or other minor ailment should be taken seriously.
One of the other bug bears regarding EG300 was the procedure for reporting fit and the timescales involved in the decision making process and the timing of the ARI outcome. As part of the talks it was agreed that the process will be simplified, the outcome of your ARI should be sent within 48hrs of your meeting and the letters sent out to you regarding stages 1 and 2 will be rewritten in a more friendly, crew specific manner.
The procedures for reporting fit, the process and timings etc are as follows:
Go fit via the Operational Support Team (OST) on *******. During this call the OST will ask if you wish your period of absence to be considered for discounting.
The OST will then send an Email to the Attendance Unit (AU) including any relevant information that you gave and whether you wish the occasion to be discounted. If the AU has all the required information, they will aim to contact you within 2 days of reporting fit.
Where applicable, the AU will discount prior to an ARI.
If an ARI is necessary the following changes / options apply:
For WW crew it has been agreed that you can volunteer to have your ARI after your next trip or on an unusable day. This agreement only applies to EG300 / ARIs and is purely voluntary and does not enable a ground and air duty to be linked. Otherwise an appointment (e.g. UKM or de-roster) will be made within a reasonable timescale of 21 days. In the spirit of this commitment and our improved working relationship, BA have agreed to remove the 5 day & No ARI, no Fly rule.
For EF crew in addition to the above, ARIs can still be arranged when linked to a maximum 6 hour flying duty. The details of this can be found in the Eurofleet Industrial agreement.
In support of the changes that BA have made to EG300, and in the spirit of goodwill, BASSA have agreed that unless a crew member specifically wants to be accompanied, crew can now attend Stage 1 ARIs without representation. However, if an individual is concerned or unhappy with any aspect of the EG300 process, BASSA has negotiated an appeals procedure. The crew member should write to the manager of the AU within 21 days detailing their concerns. The manager of the AU will then respond to that letter within 21 days.
BASSA will of course continue to be available to help and support you at any stage during EG300.
The fundaments of this agreement is based on trust and an acknowledgement by BA of YOUR unique working environment. Please continue to keep us informed of any developments relating to EG300. YOU as always are our eyes and ears!
CSD X
Since the introduction of the CSD job framework in 1998, BASSA have been seeking to introduce some form of 'family' concept that would help crew.
For years now our job seems to have been looked at as a mystery, with a touch of glamour but it's not until you do the job that this is dispelled!
Also if you think of the role of cabin crew, what other job do people come to work, not knowing who they will be with for the next few days, instantly having to work as a team, sharing various personal conversations and probably at the end of the trip know more about others than their own families!
Only crew know what makes crew tick!
Why now?
With the demise of the B757/B767 fleet in EF, now seemed the right time to thrash this possibility out.
We also believe it is a win win for both sides.
Come T5 there will be less of a managerial presence, therefore who could crew turn to for advice and support? This would also now enable crew further promotion in EF above PSR.
For BA, having a manager with a ground/air link, this would provide a better and consistent way of communicating with the crew .
Bearing all of this in mind, we have agreed to pick up the discussions that had faltered last year.
These had stuck on what compensation CSD Xs would get whilst working on the ground.
This wasn't a case of throwing money at a problem nor did we want BA to pay peanuts, as both ways would attract the wrong sort of person.
We have agreed to a trial of the new role and if successful, which we hope it will be, will make both the role and numbers required permanent.
This will then benefit you for the future by having managers that understand the role much better and also giving you more promotional opportunities for the future.
We have at the same time committed, again if the role is successful, to reviewing the SCCM roles in EF on the B757/A321.
PS: Do you have a better name than CSD X?
FIXED LINKS
There is a split opinion on this one!
The plus side is obviously your stability to keep a trip and monies that you would have expected to earn.
In the previous trials this proved 99% successful, unless the aircraft went tech or the flight was cancelled.
Is it better to continue on the same aircraft rather than missing then next sector and ending up on the fantastic DME instead of being on a nightstop?
Also with LHR full to bursting, delays now seem more likely.
Our view was if you can do LHR-MAD-LHR, why can we not consider this to be done in reverse?
The negative side, was crew's ability to eat/drink, have a break and phone home.
In the previous trial the intent from the manager involved to resolve the above was non -existent, thankfully she is no longer here and we trust these can now be resolved.
We have therefore committed in agreeing to a trial, the details have still to be agreed, but of course we shall be using our knowledge of the previous trials and will monitor these rigorously. A crucial factor of us agreeing to a trial, is that BA have committed that fixed links will NOT be imposed.
We will only commit to day 2 of a 3 day trip e.g. : DUS-LHR-NCE and you WILL receive a STR payment for operating a fixed link.
POST 97 PAYSCALES
From the outset, BASSA was determined to try and get the 2 pay scales linked together. Unfortunately, the cost behind this appeared astronomical at present and BA were NOT prepared to concede this under threat.
BASSA then took the decision to at least improve the current pay scales, that would enable us to progress in the future. After much debate, the following pay scales will be in place as soon as an NSP is convened. Although the last 4 are non-pensionable for this specific deal for NAPS members, with the 18.75% uplift in pensionable pay (see pension article), this should compensate for this.
Obviously this was NOT what we would have wanted but you will appreciate that there has at least been an improvement and is now a way forward for further possible changes in the future.
The table below refers to LHR main crew pay scales. Due to the different pay scales at Single Fleet LGW the actual amounts will be different to those quoted for other mainline crew. However, the same principle applies. We are still thrashing out exact numbers for Single Fleet crew.
This issue will be ratified at the forthcoming NSP.
TABLE OMITTED
Feb 08 is predicted RPI of 3.25%
Please remember the pay deal of 4.6% from February 1st gives an extra pensionable amount, because the RPI in October was only 3.4% and in February it was 4.4%. So the delay in the pay rise is partly offset by the pensionable increase, and will be totally in 18 months.
The pay deal is a TWO YEAR deal, the four increments on post 97 crew contracts allows BASSA more scope and time to further push for consolidation into the old scales and that is EXACTLY what we will attempt to do.
LGW BREAKFAST
When we were looking at trying to incorporate the breakfast arrangement that existed in EF LGW in to SFG, we had to be aware of the tax free limit on flying pay, which is currently set at £2.50 maximum. After a few sessions of bartering, we finally agreed on £2.43, which creates a buffer to allow for future pay rises, therefore still allowing this to be 100% tax free.
HOURLY RATE
After the shock of BA raising this issue and their desire to try and re-introduce hourly pay, it has now been confirmed by Willie Walsh and BA in writing, that this subject has now been WITHDRAWN.
PREFERED SELLER
BA have also withdrawn this item.
CENTRAL AREA BUS
The BA5 has now been rescheduled to provide transport between the Compass Centre and the Central Area at the weekends. The service started on 27 January 2007 and will run between 0600 and 2357 every 30 minutes. The full timetable can be found on the BA Intranet.
We hope that our BALPA colleagues will appreciate and acknowledge this enhancement.
900 HOURS
The company's existing proposal (from 19th January) is set out below:
As we know, working time rules mean that our cabin crew can fly for a maximum of 900 hours per year. We have already employed an additional 350 crew, at a cost of around £9 million, to comply with this legislation.
There is, of course, an ability to do non-flying work beyond this, up to a maximum of 2,000 hours a year. Some of these days will be used for training and developing our crew.
We do not need to tell you just how complicated the current crew rostering process is. We would like to talk with you about ways in which we could make this process more efficient which would be to the benefit of our cabin crew and to the airline. In doing this, we could create a system that would provide crew with greater certainty around their work and free time. We could take immediate steps to improve this by giving our crew greater notice of the days when they will, and will not, be used.
As a result of our discussion today we are prepared to add the following processes to this offer:
Quote:For crew who are rostered between 870 and 900 hours:
Crew who have reached the scheduling planning parameter (870 hours) will continue to be rostered trip blocks in the normal manner. They will be alerted via crewlink of the fact that they have reached the planning parameter and that they may contact scheduling in order to discuss the potential impact on their forward roster (this will require a system change and we will endeavour to implement this as soon as is practicable).
If there is a risk of hitting the 900 hours legal limit, crew will be given the opportunity to select which trip will be discharged from the roster and whether any replacement trip substituted. Scheduling will accommodate all such requests.
If a crew member does not contact scheduling within 14 days then scheduling will take the relevant remedial steps (i.e. the removal of the minimum number of trips).
The company will also ensure that any crew member affected by the planning parameter, will be brought under it for the subsequent month in order to establish roster stability.
Any trip removed will be accounted for viz a viz 'fair share'
For crew who have rostered hours exceeding 900 hrs:
The option of amending their forward flying duties will be available to bring their rolling average back below 900. This will be done jointly between the crew member and Operations Planning/Scheduling. The trips that are removed at this point will be accounted for in the next roster publication (a new check for 'fair share'). If training is available at this stage then Operations Planning/Scheduling will let the crew member as soon as possible. Alternatively the crew member may choose to have their forward roster stripped in the month following where 900 hours was exceeded with no new trips added during that month.
PENSIONS
It was apparent from the very first discussion with BA on our twelve unsolved points, that Willie Walsh and his management team were not prepared to discuss pensions whatsoever. As far as they were concerned they had reached agreement at the BA Forum on the 5th January and they were not going to talk on the subject.
Interestingly, we even came up with a cost effective way of self funding an increase in pensionable pay. BA said the two Unions (BALPA and AMICUS) who had been in agreement on the 5th January would insist on the same improvement. Tony Woodley even telephoned the General Secretary of BALPA. After he had spoken to the senior BA BALPA reps, he phoned Tony back informing him that they would not allow any group to improve the pension arrangements agreed by BALPA on the 5th January 2007.
So there you have it the highest paid group, stopping the lowest paid group (post 97 crew contract) having a chance to self fund improvements to their pensions.
Trust us we tried, individually and as a group but the conniving on the evening of January 5th 2007, doomed cabin crew to this deal whether we liked it or not.
We have the T&G Chief Financial Officer, Mr ***** working on some examples to share with you on the next flyer. We have asked him for examples for 25, 35, 45, year olds in NAPS 1 and NAPS 2 and a description of how it affects BARP members; these changes only come into place on April 1st 2007.
Also we will ask him to point out in his opinion where the pensions deal is weak and also where it is strong, considering that there was a £2.1 billion deficit and that most final salary schemes have perished.
We have not fully achieved our goal of the ill health pension being reinstated, but we have not given up either! We have however ensured that if you were unable to fly and were to opt for a permanent ground job, your present pensionable pay will be protected with an 18.75% uplift.
One interesting point is that cabin crew in NAPS are roughly split 50/50 between NAPS 1 and NAPS 2. In most cabin crew cases NAPS 2 is the much better option. The main point being that dependant on your pensionable salary, the abatement figure can be very different; so any concerned individual should contact a financial advisor or BA Pensions (020 8513 2222) as soon as possible.
PURSER / MAIN CREW SWAP
To be introduced from September 2007. Details regarding the introduction will be discussed at WW steering. The change will take place incrementally and BA have confirmed that voluntary severance will be offered for WW CSDs and PSRs as well as part time opportunities for WW PSRs. It is envisaged that both of these options, along with future aircraft orders and proposed network expansion will provide promotional opportunities.
DOWNROUTE REPORT TIME
This has been referred back to WW steering panel.
If anybody is puzzled where the CC anti - FC sentiments originate read the paragraphs on pensions if nothing else. The viciousness and gross lack of truth really says it all.
POST STRIKE UPDATE 05 February 2007
OVERVIEW
Since the amazing result announced at the Branch meeting on 15th January 2007, most of what you know by now is history, but we thought it prudent to share with you the actions taken.
In the following week after the meeting, BA's arrogance and contempt continued in various meetings that took place between ourselves, which still surprised us.
It was not until BA were served with the legal 7 days noticed that attitudes began to change, albeit incredibly slowly.
About halfway through the following week it was suggested that ****** and ***** meet with Willie Walsh and ******, in order to meet the face of BASSA and to have a no holds barred meeting, where firm views could be exchanged. This they did and on the first occasion met for just over 5 hours finishing just before midnight and again the following afternoon for a further 4 hours. In fact on the second meeting the 4 of them finalised the EG300 document that you see now.
Both sides agreed that the meetings had been useful, if frank.
The following day Tony Woodley, General Secretary of the TGWU, met Willie Walsh to thrash out the post '97 pay scales. The following day he called for a meeting with the 9 members of the BASSA Branch Committee to report back on his meeting. It was agreed that night to meet BA, for them to officially put their proposals forward to BASSA and then to continue in secret talks over the weekend, to see if an agreement could be reached to advert the strike. This as you know happened and at approx 1300 GMT on Monday 29th January 2007, the committee took a vote and the majority decided that the strikes should not go ahead.
In the decision making, everything that had happened in the past 14 days was taken in to consideration, including every meeting, every view, every comment and every possibility and the majority decided that if the strike went ahead that a better deal could not be reached and the deal that we had negotiated would possibly be off the table also.
The senior reps involved gave 101% of their time, energy, effort, commitment and concentration to study and argue for the best possible deal, taking EVERYTHING and EVERYONE in to consideration, regardless of grade, contract type or fleet.
All of them at the end of it were exhausted and believed they had aged 10 years!
Although we expected that some crew would be disappointed with the deal and that they didn't have their 2 days on the picket line, we would hope that they accept that the reps when making an incredibly difficult decision like they had, did so NOT lightly and did it taking in to account the WHOLE of the membership.
What transpired on the crew forum within hours of the announcement of the strike being called off, was although not surprising due to the tension of the situation, was unjustified in that a handful of crew were personally attacking and criticising individual reps. In our opinion with NO idea of the previous 14 days and its content, this criticism was untimely and unjustified. What was heartening though was the hundreds and hundreds of emails and private messages we received thanking us for our hard work and for the deal that had been negotiated, along with their amazement and disgust on some of the anonymous comments made.
As part of the negotiation and in the spirit of moving forward, Willie Walsh wants to personally meet ***** and ******, the two Convenors, starting this Tuesday 6th Feb and then every 3 months to avoid a repeat of the breakdown in relations and to raise any serious concerns or items that need addressing.
No other Chief Executive has ever offered this and we hope that this will be a positive step in the right direction for all parties concerned.
Some crew have asked 'was this the best deal that we could have done?' Pensions was a closed item, ***** and ***** confirmed this every time they tried to raise it, Willie would not budge. He had his deal with the mother TUs on 5th January and he was not letting go. (See the pension article)
Given the nature of the circumstances, the breakdown in industrial relations and trust, coupled with the above, some had hoped for more BUT considering what we were facing, we believe we have not only delivered a deal, but have also regained trust and respect for both you and BASSA. Yes two quality reps offered their resignation from the Branch Committee (but not as reps), we hope that when emotions die down, they will return to the Branch Committee and we can all move forward together, because that is what makes us stronger. No individuals are bigger than the membership, we are all here at your behest, and we should never forget that fact
EG300
Since BA's request in October 2005, for BASSA to 'take a leap of faith', the history behind EG300 has been well documented. After its introduction in October 2005, BASSA spent months trying to ensure that the policy took our unique working environment and lifestyle into consideration when crew entered into EG300. After many meetings, it was clear that the only place the 'leap of faith' had taken us, was towards the recent breakdown in industrial relations and our subsequent ballot.
All BASSA had ever wanted was an acknowledgement that cabin crew have to treat their health and fitness more harshly than those working on the ground and that this fact should be reflected in EG300.
Once our ballot result was announced, BA approached BASSA to begin negotiations on EG300, amongst other things. During the talks BA finally acknowledged that certain illnesses do stop crew from flying, this admission was a key part of any deal. Progress continued to be made during the negotiations, including the reinstatement of Flying Crew Orders and a list of various conditions that would exclude crew from being able to carry out their cabin crew duties.
In the new spirit of moving forward, these changes should hopefully work in ensuring that crew are treated in a fair and consistent way. The list includes the following:
Colds and Flu resulting in blocked ears
Diarrhoea & Vomiting
One-off life events (for example, surgery, broken limb, one-off injury, severe emotional trauma)
Down-route sickness (where reported to Global Lifeline). Information from the senior Cabin Crew member will also be taken into account.
Pregnancy related sickness
There is also recognition that an injury sustained whilst on BA premises will be dealt with under the industrial injury framework, which will be added to the cabin crew procedures document.
Arrangements for IVF will be handled within the Family Friendly Working Group.
Unlike before, once you report fit, the normal practice will be for an occasion of absence relating to one of these conditions to be discounted, however, the line manager will endeavour to look at all the circumstances when making this decision. Where applicable, discounting should take place prior to an ARI.
Also, where an individual has no occasions of absence in a 21 month period, the normal practice will be for the next occasion to be discounted, however, the line manager will endeavour to look at all the circumstances when making this decision.
The following texts will also be reinstated in Flying Crew Orders (FCO):
The grounds for declaring oneself unfit for duty are sickness, injury or fatigue:
Cabin Crew are expected to judge these matters more rigorously than ground staff because they have a prime responsibility for safety procedures as well as handling food and work at close quarters with passengers.
Many crew members will be away for a number of days after they report for work, so this means that a cold or other minor ailment should be taken seriously.
One of the other bug bears regarding EG300 was the procedure for reporting fit and the timescales involved in the decision making process and the timing of the ARI outcome. As part of the talks it was agreed that the process will be simplified, the outcome of your ARI should be sent within 48hrs of your meeting and the letters sent out to you regarding stages 1 and 2 will be rewritten in a more friendly, crew specific manner.
The procedures for reporting fit, the process and timings etc are as follows:
Go fit via the Operational Support Team (OST) on *******. During this call the OST will ask if you wish your period of absence to be considered for discounting.
The OST will then send an Email to the Attendance Unit (AU) including any relevant information that you gave and whether you wish the occasion to be discounted. If the AU has all the required information, they will aim to contact you within 2 days of reporting fit.
Where applicable, the AU will discount prior to an ARI.
If an ARI is necessary the following changes / options apply:
For WW crew it has been agreed that you can volunteer to have your ARI after your next trip or on an unusable day. This agreement only applies to EG300 / ARIs and is purely voluntary and does not enable a ground and air duty to be linked. Otherwise an appointment (e.g. UKM or de-roster) will be made within a reasonable timescale of 21 days. In the spirit of this commitment and our improved working relationship, BA have agreed to remove the 5 day & No ARI, no Fly rule.
For EF crew in addition to the above, ARIs can still be arranged when linked to a maximum 6 hour flying duty. The details of this can be found in the Eurofleet Industrial agreement.
In support of the changes that BA have made to EG300, and in the spirit of goodwill, BASSA have agreed that unless a crew member specifically wants to be accompanied, crew can now attend Stage 1 ARIs without representation. However, if an individual is concerned or unhappy with any aspect of the EG300 process, BASSA has negotiated an appeals procedure. The crew member should write to the manager of the AU within 21 days detailing their concerns. The manager of the AU will then respond to that letter within 21 days.
BASSA will of course continue to be available to help and support you at any stage during EG300.
The fundaments of this agreement is based on trust and an acknowledgement by BA of YOUR unique working environment. Please continue to keep us informed of any developments relating to EG300. YOU as always are our eyes and ears!
CSD X
Since the introduction of the CSD job framework in 1998, BASSA have been seeking to introduce some form of 'family' concept that would help crew.
For years now our job seems to have been looked at as a mystery, with a touch of glamour but it's not until you do the job that this is dispelled!
Also if you think of the role of cabin crew, what other job do people come to work, not knowing who they will be with for the next few days, instantly having to work as a team, sharing various personal conversations and probably at the end of the trip know more about others than their own families!
Only crew know what makes crew tick!
Why now?
With the demise of the B757/B767 fleet in EF, now seemed the right time to thrash this possibility out.
We also believe it is a win win for both sides.
Come T5 there will be less of a managerial presence, therefore who could crew turn to for advice and support? This would also now enable crew further promotion in EF above PSR.
For BA, having a manager with a ground/air link, this would provide a better and consistent way of communicating with the crew .
Bearing all of this in mind, we have agreed to pick up the discussions that had faltered last year.
These had stuck on what compensation CSD Xs would get whilst working on the ground.
This wasn't a case of throwing money at a problem nor did we want BA to pay peanuts, as both ways would attract the wrong sort of person.
We have agreed to a trial of the new role and if successful, which we hope it will be, will make both the role and numbers required permanent.
This will then benefit you for the future by having managers that understand the role much better and also giving you more promotional opportunities for the future.
We have at the same time committed, again if the role is successful, to reviewing the SCCM roles in EF on the B757/A321.
PS: Do you have a better name than CSD X?
FIXED LINKS
There is a split opinion on this one!
The plus side is obviously your stability to keep a trip and monies that you would have expected to earn.
In the previous trials this proved 99% successful, unless the aircraft went tech or the flight was cancelled.
Is it better to continue on the same aircraft rather than missing then next sector and ending up on the fantastic DME instead of being on a nightstop?
Also with LHR full to bursting, delays now seem more likely.
Our view was if you can do LHR-MAD-LHR, why can we not consider this to be done in reverse?
The negative side, was crew's ability to eat/drink, have a break and phone home.
In the previous trial the intent from the manager involved to resolve the above was non -existent, thankfully she is no longer here and we trust these can now be resolved.
We have therefore committed in agreeing to a trial, the details have still to be agreed, but of course we shall be using our knowledge of the previous trials and will monitor these rigorously. A crucial factor of us agreeing to a trial, is that BA have committed that fixed links will NOT be imposed.
We will only commit to day 2 of a 3 day trip e.g. : DUS-LHR-NCE and you WILL receive a STR payment for operating a fixed link.
POST 97 PAYSCALES
From the outset, BASSA was determined to try and get the 2 pay scales linked together. Unfortunately, the cost behind this appeared astronomical at present and BA were NOT prepared to concede this under threat.
BASSA then took the decision to at least improve the current pay scales, that would enable us to progress in the future. After much debate, the following pay scales will be in place as soon as an NSP is convened. Although the last 4 are non-pensionable for this specific deal for NAPS members, with the 18.75% uplift in pensionable pay (see pension article), this should compensate for this.
Obviously this was NOT what we would have wanted but you will appreciate that there has at least been an improvement and is now a way forward for further possible changes in the future.
The table below refers to LHR main crew pay scales. Due to the different pay scales at Single Fleet LGW the actual amounts will be different to those quoted for other mainline crew. However, the same principle applies. We are still thrashing out exact numbers for Single Fleet crew.
This issue will be ratified at the forthcoming NSP.
TABLE OMITTED
Feb 08 is predicted RPI of 3.25%
Please remember the pay deal of 4.6% from February 1st gives an extra pensionable amount, because the RPI in October was only 3.4% and in February it was 4.4%. So the delay in the pay rise is partly offset by the pensionable increase, and will be totally in 18 months.
The pay deal is a TWO YEAR deal, the four increments on post 97 crew contracts allows BASSA more scope and time to further push for consolidation into the old scales and that is EXACTLY what we will attempt to do.
LGW BREAKFAST
When we were looking at trying to incorporate the breakfast arrangement that existed in EF LGW in to SFG, we had to be aware of the tax free limit on flying pay, which is currently set at £2.50 maximum. After a few sessions of bartering, we finally agreed on £2.43, which creates a buffer to allow for future pay rises, therefore still allowing this to be 100% tax free.
HOURLY RATE
After the shock of BA raising this issue and their desire to try and re-introduce hourly pay, it has now been confirmed by Willie Walsh and BA in writing, that this subject has now been WITHDRAWN.
PREFERED SELLER
BA have also withdrawn this item.
CENTRAL AREA BUS
The BA5 has now been rescheduled to provide transport between the Compass Centre and the Central Area at the weekends. The service started on 27 January 2007 and will run between 0600 and 2357 every 30 minutes. The full timetable can be found on the BA Intranet.
We hope that our BALPA colleagues will appreciate and acknowledge this enhancement.
900 HOURS
The company's existing proposal (from 19th January) is set out below:
As we know, working time rules mean that our cabin crew can fly for a maximum of 900 hours per year. We have already employed an additional 350 crew, at a cost of around £9 million, to comply with this legislation.
There is, of course, an ability to do non-flying work beyond this, up to a maximum of 2,000 hours a year. Some of these days will be used for training and developing our crew.
We do not need to tell you just how complicated the current crew rostering process is. We would like to talk with you about ways in which we could make this process more efficient which would be to the benefit of our cabin crew and to the airline. In doing this, we could create a system that would provide crew with greater certainty around their work and free time. We could take immediate steps to improve this by giving our crew greater notice of the days when they will, and will not, be used.
As a result of our discussion today we are prepared to add the following processes to this offer:
Quote:For crew who are rostered between 870 and 900 hours:
Crew who have reached the scheduling planning parameter (870 hours) will continue to be rostered trip blocks in the normal manner. They will be alerted via crewlink of the fact that they have reached the planning parameter and that they may contact scheduling in order to discuss the potential impact on their forward roster (this will require a system change and we will endeavour to implement this as soon as is practicable).
If there is a risk of hitting the 900 hours legal limit, crew will be given the opportunity to select which trip will be discharged from the roster and whether any replacement trip substituted. Scheduling will accommodate all such requests.
If a crew member does not contact scheduling within 14 days then scheduling will take the relevant remedial steps (i.e. the removal of the minimum number of trips).
The company will also ensure that any crew member affected by the planning parameter, will be brought under it for the subsequent month in order to establish roster stability.
Any trip removed will be accounted for viz a viz 'fair share'
For crew who have rostered hours exceeding 900 hrs:
The option of amending their forward flying duties will be available to bring their rolling average back below 900. This will be done jointly between the crew member and Operations Planning/Scheduling. The trips that are removed at this point will be accounted for in the next roster publication (a new check for 'fair share'). If training is available at this stage then Operations Planning/Scheduling will let the crew member as soon as possible. Alternatively the crew member may choose to have their forward roster stripped in the month following where 900 hours was exceeded with no new trips added during that month.
PENSIONS
It was apparent from the very first discussion with BA on our twelve unsolved points, that Willie Walsh and his management team were not prepared to discuss pensions whatsoever. As far as they were concerned they had reached agreement at the BA Forum on the 5th January and they were not going to talk on the subject.
Interestingly, we even came up with a cost effective way of self funding an increase in pensionable pay. BA said the two Unions (BALPA and AMICUS) who had been in agreement on the 5th January would insist on the same improvement. Tony Woodley even telephoned the General Secretary of BALPA. After he had spoken to the senior BA BALPA reps, he phoned Tony back informing him that they would not allow any group to improve the pension arrangements agreed by BALPA on the 5th January 2007.
So there you have it the highest paid group, stopping the lowest paid group (post 97 crew contract) having a chance to self fund improvements to their pensions.
Trust us we tried, individually and as a group but the conniving on the evening of January 5th 2007, doomed cabin crew to this deal whether we liked it or not.
We have the T&G Chief Financial Officer, Mr ***** working on some examples to share with you on the next flyer. We have asked him for examples for 25, 35, 45, year olds in NAPS 1 and NAPS 2 and a description of how it affects BARP members; these changes only come into place on April 1st 2007.
Also we will ask him to point out in his opinion where the pensions deal is weak and also where it is strong, considering that there was a £2.1 billion deficit and that most final salary schemes have perished.
We have not fully achieved our goal of the ill health pension being reinstated, but we have not given up either! We have however ensured that if you were unable to fly and were to opt for a permanent ground job, your present pensionable pay will be protected with an 18.75% uplift.
One interesting point is that cabin crew in NAPS are roughly split 50/50 between NAPS 1 and NAPS 2. In most cabin crew cases NAPS 2 is the much better option. The main point being that dependant on your pensionable salary, the abatement figure can be very different; so any concerned individual should contact a financial advisor or BA Pensions (020 8513 2222) as soon as possible.
PURSER / MAIN CREW SWAP
To be introduced from September 2007. Details regarding the introduction will be discussed at WW steering. The change will take place incrementally and BA have confirmed that voluntary severance will be offered for WW CSDs and PSRs as well as part time opportunities for WW PSRs. It is envisaged that both of these options, along with future aircraft orders and proposed network expansion will provide promotional opportunities.
DOWNROUTE REPORT TIME
This has been referred back to WW steering panel.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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AndyPandy, Thanks for your last post, much information, I did like the following quote, shows how staff working together is a dream.
.quote.
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"Interestingly, we even came up with a cost effective way of self funding an increase in pensionable pay. BA said the two Unions (BALPA and AMICUS) who had been in agreement on the 5th January would insist on the same improvement. Tony Woodley even telephoned the General Secretary of BALPA. After he had spoken to the senior BA BALPA reps, he phoned Tony back informing him that they would not allow any group to improve the pension arrangements agreed by BALPA on the 5th January 2007.
So there you have it the highest paid group, stopping the lowest paid group (post 97 crew contract) having a chance to self fund improvements to their pensions".
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Nice to know BALPA are in charge of Cabin Crew pensions, guess they also in charge of all Ground Staff pensions as well, am sure it's Fair
.quote.
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"Interestingly, we even came up with a cost effective way of self funding an increase in pensionable pay. BA said the two Unions (BALPA and AMICUS) who had been in agreement on the 5th January would insist on the same improvement. Tony Woodley even telephoned the General Secretary of BALPA. After he had spoken to the senior BA BALPA reps, he phoned Tony back informing him that they would not allow any group to improve the pension arrangements agreed by BALPA on the 5th January 2007.
So there you have it the highest paid group, stopping the lowest paid group (post 97 crew contract) having a chance to self fund improvements to their pensions".
.
Nice to know BALPA are in charge of Cabin Crew pensions, guess they also in charge of all Ground Staff pensions as well, am sure it's Fair
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joetom........... you have simply fallen into the trap of believing the world according to BASSA. 
Q the burning of all text books that don't conform to their way of thinking!
Q the burning of all text books that don't conform to their way of thinking!
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Bassa misinformation
Bassa's statement is factually incorrect
Their settlement is partly funded by £6m pa which was made available by the dilligence of Balpa Reps.
Their strike was stopped by the TNG because they were about to be destroyed by BA.
This "blame Balpa" rubbish has one victor ; BA. I cannot believe the behaviour of Bassa.
Their settlement is partly funded by £6m pa which was made available by the dilligence of Balpa Reps.
Their strike was stopped by the TNG because they were about to be destroyed by BA.
This "blame Balpa" rubbish has one victor ; BA. I cannot believe the behaviour of Bassa.
Paxing All Over The World
Thanks for further information. One small point I have just realised: BASSA does not appear to have realised just how mucvh information leaks out these days. In the 1970s, information was in the hands of a few but now it can be leaked without trace and without hesitation. The same thing happened to Tony Blair about Iraq (and a dozen other things) they just forget that people will talk. Eventually, it is possibl eto see which bit of talk was correct.