Mid-air collision over Brasil
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Thank you ORAC merely confirms what a TAM captain was saying to me as I left...having sat at the dentists for about eight hours. Not that I was not very grateful to have been able to get out you understand Broadreach.
Hope the pilots got out, they had just had ten straight days of rain in Rio prior to some sunshine for the last couple over the weekend so a bit gloomy weather wise on top of what they have already been going through.
Hope the pilots got out, they had just had ten straight days of rain in Rio prior to some sunshine for the last couple over the weekend so a bit gloomy weather wise on top of what they have already been going through.
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Assuming the plane is financed, the bank would have prior claim, and the orders should be easy to nullify.
As to investigation of the accident, the transponder has already been sent to the U.S. I assume that means whatever needed to be checked before it was removed has been checked. But I don't know.
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This comes under the catagory of things that make you go hummmmmm:
http://www1.airliners.net/open.file/1098899/L/
http://www1.airliners.net/open.file/1098899/L/
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Today's last news from O Globo
PILOTS OF LEGACY WILL TESTIFY IN SÃO PAULO; PF SHOULD ACCUSE THEM
(PF = Federal Police)
The Federal Police said on this Thursday (07) that the pilots of Legacy Jan Paladino Joe Lepore will be heard at 8:00 in this Friday (8) in the headquarters of the superintendency of the Federal Police in São Paulo. The police officer Ramón Almeida da Silva, who presides the case, should accuse them with base in the article 261 of the penal code, for they have exposed to the danger the safety of the air traffic.
Until the night of this Thursday still remained doubts in relation to the modality of the qualification of the crime - if it would be guilty or deceitful. Everything indicates that it will be guilty, in other words, the pilots didn't have the intention of causing the accident and either to cause the 154 people's death that was on board of Gol Boeing flight 1907, on September 29, that was shocked in the air with the jet.
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/...98-295,00.html
(PF = Federal Police)
The Federal Police said on this Thursday (07) that the pilots of Legacy Jan Paladino Joe Lepore will be heard at 8:00 in this Friday (8) in the headquarters of the superintendency of the Federal Police in São Paulo. The police officer Ramón Almeida da Silva, who presides the case, should accuse them with base in the article 261 of the penal code, for they have exposed to the danger the safety of the air traffic.
Until the night of this Thursday still remained doubts in relation to the modality of the qualification of the crime - if it would be guilty or deceitful. Everything indicates that it will be guilty, in other words, the pilots didn't have the intention of causing the accident and either to cause the 154 people's death that was on board of Gol Boeing flight 1907, on September 29, that was shocked in the air with the jet.
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/...98-295,00.html
foxtrot xray
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Translator
Is there someone out there who understands Portugese and has a command of the English language that can provide a more accurate translation of the O Globo article?? Looks like there are missing words and nuances that (can) completely alter the meaning of what has been said (should for could, guilty ??)
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While efforts by all are appreciated, I agree with you 310, I have yet to see a properly translated Portuguese to English text on this entire thread. 
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Sorry for the translation but it is a plain translation of what the article says in the way the journalists write.
Things are not totally clear for pilots tomorrow, looks like Federal Police wants them to stay in Brazil.
Yes, the article say "should accuse..."
About the word "guilty" take it as manslaughter charges.
Maybe the article at this link can clear a little more how things are going now,
http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7641/53/
Note that the police officer now is Ramón Almeida da Silva and not Mr. Sayao who was in charge of most of the investigation.
foxtrot xray
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caos
That's a good link you provided and makes clear what the prosecutor is trying to do....
Too bad for the pilots..just when I thought that they were going to be released. One scenario is that the prosecutor is trying to get publicity while implying blame on the pilots but knowing that the higher court has set a deadline for their release after considering the law and the same set of facts.
Thanks for your efforts.....I am glad that I do not have to attempt to translate english into portugese......that would be a bad scene.
Too bad for the pilots..just when I thought that they were going to be released. One scenario is that the prosecutor is trying to get publicity while implying blame on the pilots but knowing that the higher court has set a deadline for their release after considering the law and the same set of facts.
Thanks for your efforts.....I am glad that I do not have to attempt to translate english into portugese......that would be a bad scene.
Lepore and Paladino arrived in Sao Paulo this morning and are being interviewed by the Federal Police now. When that's over they are expected to proceed to GRU and leave Brazil.
I've felt from the beginning of this affair that Mr Sayao was in for the publicity, and I suspect his superiors are of the same opinion, which might go some way to explaining why he's not conducting the interviews.
And. I'd recommend some caution with the Brazzil article; it seems to me just the teeniest bit slanted. One might apply the same scepticism of their coverage of the Federal Police as is normally applied to journalists' knowlege of aviation matters.
I've felt from the beginning of this affair that Mr Sayao was in for the publicity, and I suspect his superiors are of the same opinion, which might go some way to explaining why he's not conducting the interviews.
And. I'd recommend some caution with the Brazzil article; it seems to me just the teeniest bit slanted. One might apply the same scepticism of their coverage of the Federal Police as is normally applied to journalists' knowlege of aviation matters.
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More things that make you go hummmmmmm:
http://www.sizes.com/society/corruption_index.htm
For the updated list:
http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...ys_indices/cpi
http://www.sizes.com/society/corruption_index.htm
For the updated list:
http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...ys_indices/cpi
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pilots free
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/SaoPaul...5-5605,00.html
Depois de seis horas, terminou o depoimento dos pilotos americanos Jan Paladino e Joe Lepore na Superintendência da Polícia Federal de São Paulo. Foi o primeiro depoimento dos dois à PF. Paladino e Lepore, que conduziam o jato Legacy que se envolveu no acidente com o Boeing 737-800 da Gol em 29 de setembro <http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/0,,IIF661-5598,00.html>, começaram a depor por volta das 8h15 desta sexta-feira (8) na sede da superintendência da Polícia Federal de São Paulo. Os dois já têm os passaportes nas mãos e estão liberados para voltar aos Estados Unidos.
Paladino e Lepore deixaram o prédio da Polícia Federal, na Zona Oeste da capital, em uma van do consulado dos Estados Unidos, e se dirigiram ao Aeroporto Internacional de Cumbica, em Guarulhos, na Grande São Paulo.
Depois de seis horas, terminou o depoimento dos pilotos americanos Jan Paladino e Joe Lepore na Superintendência da Polícia Federal de São Paulo. Foi o primeiro depoimento dos dois à PF. Paladino e Lepore, que conduziam o jato Legacy que se envolveu no acidente com o Boeing 737-800 da Gol em 29 de setembro <http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/0,,IIF661-5598,00.html>, começaram a depor por volta das 8h15 desta sexta-feira (8) na sede da superintendência da Polícia Federal de São Paulo. Os dois já têm os passaportes nas mãos e estão liberados para voltar aos Estados Unidos.
Paladino e Lepore deixaram o prédio da Polícia Federal, na Zona Oeste da capital, em uma van do consulado dos Estados Unidos, e se dirigiram ao Aeroporto Internacional de Cumbica, em Guarulhos, na Grande São Paulo.
They left the building of the Federal Police, in a SUV from the American Embassy, and were transported to the International Airport of Guarulhos.
foxtrot xray
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pilots release
does this mean that they were not charged with any crime at this time and merely made statements?????
Would appreciate update on when the wheels leave the ground and any other info as to when they are expected back into the US.
Would appreciate update on when the wheels leave the ground and any other info as to when they are expected back into the US.
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Last news:
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/SaoPaul...2-5605,00.html
I think they are being accused of involuntary homicide. Charges are based on article 261 of penal code, for puting in jeopardy the air traffic. They still can answer to those charges in liberty.
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From CNN: American pilots charged in Amazon jetliner crash
Summary: "Brazilian federal police on Friday charged two New York pilots involved in a collision that killed 154 people with exposing an aircraft to danger."
However, the two pilots did get their passports back and left the country. They are supposed to return for trial.
Summary: "Brazilian federal police on Friday charged two New York pilots involved in a collision that killed 154 people with exposing an aircraft to danger."
However, the two pilots did get their passports back and left the country. They are supposed to return for trial.
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Last news:
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/SaoPaul...2-5605,00.html
I think they are being accused of involuntary homicide. Charges are based on article 261 of penal code, for puting in jeopardy the air traffic. They still can answer to those charges in liberty.
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/SaoPaul...2-5605,00.html
I think they are being accused of involuntary homicide. Charges are based on article 261 of penal code, for puting in jeopardy the air traffic. They still can answer to those charges in liberty.
- they stayed in silence during the 6 hours of the interrogation (under the lawyers' instruction) and only they will speak in the trial.
- they were accused of exposing in danger the security of the air traffic (article 261 of the penal code).
- the pilots were in freedom and they will travel today to USA.
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foxtrot xray
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Good News on departure but.........................
The news that the pilots have been released is good ....very good.
The news that they have been charged criminally is bad ....very bad.
This should be a wake-up call to all pilots flying internationally especially those flying to/in Brazil.
Should we now expect that similar charges will be laid against the ATC folks on duty and the honchos who ran(or were supposed to run) the ATC organization, even at the very top??? I expect the answer is "no" because they are part of the military and exempt from civil prosecution(or something like that).
Good show Brasilia!
The news that they have been charged criminally is bad ....very bad.
This should be a wake-up call to all pilots flying internationally especially those flying to/in Brazil.
Should we now expect that similar charges will be laid against the ATC folks on duty and the honchos who ran(or were supposed to run) the ATC organization, even at the very top??? I expect the answer is "no" because they are part of the military and exempt from civil prosecution(or something like that).
Good show Brasilia!
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The news that the pilots have been released is good ....very good.
The news that they have been charged criminally is bad ....very bad.
This should be a wake-up call to all pilots flying internationally especially those flying to/in Brazil.
Should we now expect that similar charges will be laid against the ATC folks on duty and the honchos who ran(or were supposed to run) the ATC organization, even at the very top??? I expect the answer is "no" because they are part of the military and exempt from civil prosecution(or something like that).
Good show Brasilia!
The news that they have been charged criminally is bad ....very bad.
This should be a wake-up call to all pilots flying internationally especially those flying to/in Brazil.
Should we now expect that similar charges will be laid against the ATC folks on duty and the honchos who ran(or were supposed to run) the ATC organization, even at the very top??? I expect the answer is "no" because they are part of the military and exempt from civil prosecution(or something like that).
Good show Brasilia!
If some ATC is charged, will surely be passed over to the military justice and I doubt that some of the big boys will be processed (they are usually fired or transferred).
Now it is everything in the lawyers' hands; process that will last years.
Lepore and Paladino said that in the USA they will make a sworn declaration, that it can be used for the trial in Brazil.
The charge against them is for negligent behavior in the conduction of the airplane.
Police officer Ramon Almeida da Silva said:
"exist in the solemnities elements of proofs and indications that point that these pilots acted with negligence and their conducts were causes of the accident, but we cannot say although they are the only cause".
....." The decision of accusing them felt with base in elements of existent proofs in the investigation, that point the lack of the pilots' necessary cares , expected and demandable during the accomplishment of a flight.
The investigations still were not finished, and other conducts will also be able to be pointed as causes of the accident."
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Seems like the authorities in Brazil are gradually backing away from the legal penalty approach, but being slow about it in deference to their internal politics. One can imagine that it helps un-blame the officials and government-employed parties involved in ATC ops if the blame is 'shared' with these very visible pilot outsiders for the time-being.
At some point the authorities will likely determine there is 'not sufficient evidence' to conduct a successful trial, thereby backing out for the last and final step while maintaining some atmosphere of ambiguity as to which parties are actually at fault. **
Not very satisfying for the pilots, but far better than the firing squad.
** and if not, I am sure the flying fraternity will chip in to help send an army of fast-talking, hard biting lawyers there from Philly, DC, Dallas and SF to ream the accusers out as American litigators so skillfully can do.
At some point the authorities will likely determine there is 'not sufficient evidence' to conduct a successful trial, thereby backing out for the last and final step while maintaining some atmosphere of ambiguity as to which parties are actually at fault. **
Not very satisfying for the pilots, but far better than the firing squad.
** and if not, I am sure the flying fraternity will chip in to help send an army of fast-talking, hard biting lawyers there from Philly, DC, Dallas and SF to ream the accusers out as American litigators so skillfully can do.
Last edited by arcniz; 8th Dec 2006 at 22:23. Reason: footie