Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Mid-air collision over Brasil

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Mid-air collision over Brasil

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 4th Dec 2006, 00:32
  #921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 82
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Graybeard
...
The Pacific Southwest Airlines 727-200 that overran a 172 over San Diego in 1978 is a prime example. Everywhere in the press, the airline talked about their 727 being hit by the 172. Newsweek or one of those even went so far as to show an illustration of the 172 overtaking and crashing into the 727 from behind.

The scenario was repeated when a Piper Cherokee collided with an AeroMexico DC9-30 over Los Angeles. "The airliner was hit."

GB
Same thing applied to a DC-9 (Allegheny?) and PA-28 at Shelbyville IN in the early 70s. I had to call up a radio talk show and point out "that a bicycle cannot run down a Greyhound bus".

Just found a brief#: DCA70A0004

Last edited by barit1; 4th Dec 2006 at 23:04.
barit1 is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2006, 14:20
  #922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Waterloo - CA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Brazilian Authorities Backtrack and US Pilots Are Threatened with Jail

Brazilian Authorities Backtrack and US Pilots Are Threatened with Jail
(http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/7625/53/)



Two hours of conversations by two American pilots between themselves and with the air control towers in São José dos Campos, in the interior of São Paulo and in Brazilian capital Brasília, might decide in the next few days if the pilots of the Legacy executive jet can go back to the US, ending their virtual house arrest, or if they will be taken to prison.
The transcription of the dialogues in English have been translated into Portuguese and a team of experts is expected to start today the analysis of the material.
They will be looking for hints that Joe Lepore and Jan Paladino acted in an irresponsible or criminal way that ended up causing Brazil's worst air accident ever with 154 dead.
Anonymous testimonies published by the Brazilian media have painted a picture of failing equipment in the control center and less than professional behavior by some air controllers.
All this information, however, hasn't changed the fact that the Brazilian authorities consider the American pilots their main suspect. The analysis of the conversations may mean the difference between declaring Lepore and Paladino innocent or guilty of gross negligence or even criminal malice.
Federal police chief Renato Sayão, who is in charge of the investigation, had indicated last week that the interview with the pilots would be just a pro-forma, bureaucratic act and that the Americans would be free to leave soon after their testimony.
He has changed considerably his tone, however. "If it can be proved that the pilots deliberately engaged in dangerous behavior, like turning off the transponder, disobeying control tower orders or changing the flight altitude on their own initiative, they will not escape indictment for felonious homicide."
If they are found innocent or if there is an indictment for involuntary manslaughter the American pilots, whose passports have been confiscated since the beginning of October, will be able to leave immediately to the US.
In case they are indicted for felonious homicide, however, the Brazilian Justice may order their temporary arrest and they will be in jail while the inquiry's fact finding goes on.
"This is a very serious crime," says Sayão, "carrying from 8 to 24 years of jail time."
People close to the investigation say that after close to two months of probing, the Brazilian Federal Police seem inclined to indict the two American pilots.
According to Sayão, the transcript shows a dialogue between the two pilots, right after the collision with the Boeing 737, which is very "revealing." But he refused to tell what he heard.
E1405 is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2006, 14:27
  #923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Waterloo - CA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Federal police must blame pilots, radars and controllers

Folha de São Paulo – December 4th
LEONARDO SOUZA
(translated by www.brazzil.com)


Federal police must blame pilots, radars and controllers

Inquiry must conclude that a factors sum caused the collision between Gol Boeing and Legacy

According to the police, flight plan should have been followed and Legacy wrong altitude realized by the operators; "blind area" would be other cause.

The Federal Police inquiry about the collision between Gol plane and the little jet, on September 29, lead to blame several involved in the accident, including flight controllers and Legacy crew, besides stressing the existing failures in the Aeronautics radar systems.

The marshal responsible for the case, Renato Sayão, considers that there was not a simply failure neither a unique guilty, but a series of "causal vectors" that led to the collision between both planes.

The Legacy pilots should have followed the flight plan or insisted in contacting the control center of Brasília, when overflying the city, to change altitude.

After leaving São José dos Campos, Legacy followed at 37 thousand feet until colliding with Boeing in Mato Grosso, disrespecting the flight plan that foresaw a descent at 36 thousand feet after Brasília and ascent to 38 thousand feet little before the collision. The jet pilots allege that they received authorization to fly at 37 thousand until Manaus.

According to depositions seized by the Federal Police, one of the flight controllers did not realize that the system automatically corrected the virtual flight plan of Legacy when it passed by Brasília, showing foreseen altitudes and not the real.

The Legacy transponder, a tragic coincidence, was inoperative at that moment and the data about its altitude was taken from the system.

One of the controllers that was on duty in Brasília on the day of the accident, affirmed that he did not request Legacy to change its altitude because he thought the little jet was at 36 thousand feet, as foreseen in the flight plan, and "because there was not other traffic in the proximities". Gol Boeing, however, flew in opposite direction.
A third factor is that the Aeronautics radars system present failures in the region between Mato Grosso and Manaus, where there are "blind areas."

In short, according to the Federal Police, the accident would not have occurred if:

1 - Legacy crew had respected the flight plan or insisted in contacting Brasília's Center;
2 - The flight controllers had detected that Legacy flew at a different altitude than the foreseen in the flight plan. Thus, without even managing to get in touch with the little jet, could have warned Gol Boeing so that it could have diverted of the route;
3 - If there were not "blind areas" between radars, the flight controllers could have detected that the little jet was not flying at the foreseen altitude.
E1405 is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2006, 20:41
  #924 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Scotland
Age: 79
Posts: 807
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The media’s attention has shifted entirely away from the Legacy crew onto ATC. Not transferring the blame onto individual controllers, rather directing it at the opaque military system within which they work. The controllers directly involved have all been interviewed by the accident investigation body and by the Federal Police, and are now giving “anonymous” interviews to the press, including television. If there’s a PR company or person working with the ATC peoples’ lawyers, they’re doing a superb job. Some very damning comment is being aired regarding equipment failures or obsolescence, understaffing, a continuing “black hole” for comms and radar between Brasilia and Manaus, including video of radar screens showing aircraft disappearing from the screen. Statements like “It’s a time bomb; it’s exploded once and it will happen again” do tend to catch the eye.

The airforce’s PR consists of denials of the media’s and interviewees’ claims, calling them an alarmist smear campaign. FAB (Brazilian airforce) and ANAC (Brazil’s CAA) statements say the ATC situation is returning to normal and that there is no work-to-rule. Flight delays do seem to be slowly subsiding although it’s difficult to judge now that “delay” means anything over an hour as opposed to anything over 15 minutes.

An independent analysis might conclude that the traveling public realise that it’s the delays that have become normal. It might also observe that emergency measures such as rerouting of flights away from Brasilia control, extending the Congonhas (São Paulo’s downtown airport) curfew from 23:00 to 01:30 and imposing a curfew on general aviation, are all having an effect. It would probably find neither those measures, nor the airlines’ difficulties with rostering, hubbing/feedering and maintenance schedules, “normal”.

Dissent within the airforce over the ATC head’s dismissal and the (civilian) defense minister’s interference in airforce affairs is now very public.

The papers have it that Mr Sayao, the Federal Police man in charge of the criminal investigation, is about to bring charges of manslaughter against both the Legacy crew and ATC, in which case the crew will be given back their passports. Next few days will tell.

It will all make an interesting case study in governmental crisis management - how not to do it.
broadreach is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2006, 22:26
  #925 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,446
Received 1,602 Likes on 734 Posts
The papers have it that Mr Sayao, the Federal Police man in charge of the criminal investigation, is about to bring charges of manslaughter against .... the Legacy crew ..... in which case the crew will be given back their passports.
ORAC is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2006, 22:30
  #926 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And given the apparnt defienciencies in the ATC system....run...and dont look back..
ironbutt57 is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2006, 23:52
  #927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Scotland
Age: 79
Posts: 807
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Orac
Don't be manslaughter is the closest I could get, as opposed to homicide. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but (if the press rumours are to be believed) the public prosecutor, Mr Sayao, is taking the path of least resistance and attributing culpability to everyone. That's his job or at least he thinks it is within the judicial system. Once that's done and the Legacy crew are enroute home it will be a lawyerfest for the next few years.

ironbutt
Yes, up to a point. Good example of how counterproductive criminalisation of accidents can be.
broadreach is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2006, 00:19
  #928 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 55
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
According to House staffers:

There well be another hearing regarding the Legacy pilots in Brazilian court on 5 Dec 06. (Tuesday)

Wish them luck!
vapilot2004 is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2006, 14:42
  #929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: São Paulo
Age: 66
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Testimony by Brasília Air Traffic Controllers

Greetings. I am not a pilot. I'm not a lawyer, either.

The newspaper O Estado de S. Paulo today published an article with the title "Brasília Controller Admits Errors". It's online, in Portuguese, at http://txt.estado.com.br/editorias/2...61205.21.1.xml

The print edition included extracts from the testimony, which of course aren't copyrighted and can be posted here.

In the Brazilian legal system, the witness speaks to the police investigator or the judge, who dictated to the scribe or the court reporter. So it's all third person: "the deponent said" and so forth. My translation is a bit stilted, but it's quite close to the original.

There is a link a few posts above to brazzil.com and a translation of part of the interview with the controllers in last weekend's edition of Época magazine. brazzil.com is missing the last page of that article, and the interview seems to have been under the close control of the controllers' lawyers.

Here are the stretches of testimony O Estado chose to extract:

Jomarcelo dos Santos

"In reference to the console [the control desk] he was working on, and in the period in which the aircraft N600XL [Legacy] was under his control, the quantity of traffic controlled by the declarant was considered tranquil and there was no specific factor which could take his attention in relation to air traffic control."

"He received a message from the aircraft, and instructed it to activate the identification mode on its transponder."

"That this communication had taken place when this aircraft was 50 nautical miles to the south of Brasília [about 90 Km] and that the aircraft also gave the level it was at, that is, at 370 and no observation by the declarant was made, because it was in accordance with its flight plan."

"That after its passage through Brasília he made no contact with the aircraft, to determine that it descend from level 370 to level 360, becasue, as well as splitting his attention among other traffic, when he observed the radar visualization of the aircraft the indication he saw was that it was already flying at level 360, in accordance with the flight plan."

Lucivando Tibúrcio

"That when he appeared to relieve his comrade, which happened about 16:15, he took over the console that was occupied only by 3S Jormarcelo and, on taking over, also remained without an assistant for a period of about 10 to 15 minutes.

"That when he took over the position and did the traffic check with 3S Jormarcelo, as to N600XL the declarant observed and asked his predecessor about the aircraft's altitude, having in view that there was an indication of two levels on the corresponding electronic strip, which were level 360 and also level 380, receiving as a response that the aircraft was maintaining level 360."

"That, therefore, he understood that as to this traffic, everything was normal and routine [...] But that the initial observation of the aircraft plot did not leave the declarant certain in respect to whether or not the transponder was functioning."

"As measures taken in light of this suspicion [that the Legacy 's transponder was not functioning] he attempted to enter into contact with the aircraft, that he did not obtain any reply in his attempts to communicate, and he affirmed having made an approximate number of five to eight attempts."

"That at this moment [shortly before the Legacy's collision with the Gol Boeing] it did not even have a plot on the radar, because this is a non-radar area, nor bilateral communication with the aircraft, because it is an area with a high degree of deficiency, of frequency, that is, an area that is blind, deaf and dumb."
Richard_Brazil is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2006, 18:13
  #930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spain
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
http://oglobo.globo.com/pais/mat/200.../286902765.asp

The justice determined that the passports of Legacy pilots should be returned in 72 hs.
Federal Justice tooks the decision that the Federal Police must return the passports to the legacy pilots in that time. According by the Regional Federal Tribunal of 1st Region (federal District), this time is enough for the Legacy pilots to be heard by Federal Police.
agusaleale is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2006, 19:15
  #931 (permalink)  

foxtrot xray
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
augusaleale

That's the best news on this thread in many a day. Hopefully the Police can finish their business in the next two days and our guys can head back home...and maybe the investigation will be returned to the rightful agency in Brazil.

Thanks for the update.
A310driver is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2006, 20:16
  #932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,559
Received 39 Likes on 18 Posts
Thumbs up AP Report in NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/worl...=1&oref=slogin
Free Registration required
RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (AP) -- A court said Tuesday it had released the passports of two U.S. pilots of a private jet involved in a collision with a Boeing 737 over the Amazon that killed 154 people.

Federal judge Candido Ribeiro said Tuesday there were no legal grounds for restricting their movements.

However, the two must agree to return to Brazil for any further inquiry and judicial action, the court said.

''At departure, air traffic control cleared the Legacy to Manaus at 37,000 feet,'' Torricella [the pilots' lawyer] said at the time. ''Absent a contrary clearance by air traffic control, the Legacy was required to remain at that altitude.''
RatherBeFlying is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2006, 01:46
  #933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Scotland
Age: 79
Posts: 807
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Meanwhile, back at the ranch

Good news re the Legacy crew.

But the ATC mess continues. Cindacta 1, the Brasilia ATC centre that controls the greater part of Brazil's traffic, began the day with a 45-minute comms blackout, apparently recovered and then continued with similar problems throughout the day. To the extent that by 20:00 LT all departures from Congonhas (except the Santos Dumont shuttle), Brasilia and Belo Horizonte were cancelled.
broadreach is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2006, 16:46
  #934 (permalink)  

foxtrot xray
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's awfully quiet from Brazil today........


Does anyone know what is happening with aircraft?? Is it released for repair and return to service?
A310driver is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2006, 22:49
  #935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Lon UK
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just arrived back from Sao Paulo this afternoon. Over 100 flights cancelled many more delayed due as yet unexplained ATC blackouts Brasilia. Wonder if its a work to rule by ATC staff?
Brat is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2006, 01:00
  #936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 2,525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just want to see the verification that they are out of country.
bubbers44 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2006, 02:16
  #937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Scotland
Age: 79
Posts: 807
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Brat
Count yourself lucky. The problem yesterday (5 Dec) was attributed to comms software in Cindacta1, Brasilia which, as they handle a large proportion of Brazil's ATC, had a domino effect on flights throughout the rest of the country. International flights, at least those to/from the north, have been less affected although I believe intra-regional (Argentina/Uruguay/Paraguay) ones have.

Today's been devoted to getting yesterday's pax, many of whom slept on the granite floors of departure lounges, to their destinations. Tomorrow (7 Dec) more of the same, and so forth.

The comms software breakdown has nothing to do with ATC work-to-rule, say the airforce. Naturally, given events of the last two months, some doubt persists.

A310driver
No news in the media. It would be in the hands of the insurers now anyway, wouldn't it. I'd guess Embraer have quietly assessed the damage and arranged for repairs to be completed in situ, or at least to have parts ready, regardless of who's paying.

bubbers44
In the present context of ATC chaos the Legacy crews' continuing presence in Brazil is, at the very least, profoundly embarrassing; the sooner they're away home the better.
broadreach is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2006, 03:04
  #938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 2,525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks Broadreach, I think we will need him back with our airline soon. I have been trying to see what our airline procecedures are and can't find any reason to hold him.
bubbers44 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2006, 07:55
  #939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 55
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs up Expect Saturday Departure for the Legacy crew!

From the Long Island section of Newsday:

L.I. pilots held in Brazil crash cleared for takeoff

BY JOHN LAUINGER and JONATHAN LEMIRE
DAILY NEWS WRITERS

A pair of Long Island pilots detained in Brazil for months after the worst airline disaster in the South American nation's history are coming home.
Joseph Lepore, 42, and Jan Paladino, 34, are expected to return to the U.S. on Saturday after a Brazilian court ordered the release of their passports, allowing the pilots to leave Brazil for the first time since the Sept. 29 collision that killed 154 people.

"I don't even know how excited I am yet," said Lepore's 8-year-old son, Michael, outside his Bay Shore home yesterday.

Lepore and Paladino have been secluded in a Rio de Janeiro hotel while Brazilian officials investigate whether the seven-person ExcelAire corporate jet they were piloting caused Gol Airlines Flight 1907 to plunge into the Amazon.

"The Lepore and Paladino families obviously are very pleased with the court's ruling and are hopeful that it brings Joe and Jan one huge step closer to a long-overdue permanent homecoming," said Robert Torricella, the pilots' Miami-based lawyer.

The pilots have agreed to return to Brazil for further inquiry as part of the agreement that returned their passports, Torricella said.

The two men could still face manslaughter charges, though recent developments in the investigation appear to indicate that the ExcelAire jet was following the instructions of air traffic controllers in the moments before the deadly collision.

vapilot2004 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2006, 15:44
  #940 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,446
Received 1,602 Likes on 734 Posts
SAO PAULO, Brazil, Dec 6 (Reuters) - Air traffic in Brazil has been chaotic since a Boeing 737 crashed on Sept. 29, exposing major problems in the country's aviation system and forcing the temporary shutdown of three airports amid its worst-ever aviation crisis. The accident took place when the Boeing, operated by Brazilian carrier Gol Linhas Aereas <GOL.N>, and a business jet collided in mid-air. The jet landed safely at a remote Amazon airstrip but the Boeing crashed nearby, killing 154 people.

Since the crash, the deadliest in Brazilian history, air traffic controllers have organized work slowdowns to protest poor pay and long hours, bringing air travel to a near-halt several times in the last two months. Controllers have said their work load increased after the crash, with some saying they sometimes handled as many as 20 flights simultaneously. The aviation crisis has also led to accusations of sabotage by disgruntled controllers, prompting Brazil's Congress to call a special session for next week to address the situation.

The crisis came to a head on Tuesday night, when officials were forced to temporarily shut down three major airports and cancel dozens of flights because of an apparent equipment failure that caused controllers to lose contact with planes. "There has never been a day like this in Brazilian aviation," said Milton Zuanazzi, the aviation authority chief. Officials blamed the breakdown on a technical glitch. But aviation experts questioned that explanation, saying the collapse may have been the result of sabotage by controllers who feel they are being made scapegoats for the Gol crash. "There is no doubt that this was intentional," said Franco Ferreira, a retired Air Force colonel and aviation expert, on Wednesday in a radio interview.

Dozens more flights were delayed or canceled again on Wednesday, angering travelers around the country. In Brasilia, passengers protested the delays by donning red clown noses and blowing whistles as they waited in long lines. Delays and cancellations have become commonplace since the Gol crash, prompting an avalanche of criticism of Brazil's civil-aviation system, which is run by the military. With air travel in Brazil growing at a double-digit pace, critics say the government has not done enough to keep up with demand.

As the crisis heated up late last month, President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva fired the commander of the air traffic control system. But the situation has worsened, bringing calls for the resignation of Defense Minister Waldir Pires. Pires is scheduled to go before a congressional panel next Wednesday to discuss the crisis.

Airlines are concerned that the situation could discourage travelers from flying. "If things stay like this, traveling by plane is going to be like going to the dentist," said Marco Antonio Bologna, the chief executive of Brazilian airline TAM, recently.....
ORAC is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.