Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321!!!
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Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321!!!
Passengers on an airliner bound for Bristol were plunged into panic when their captain refused to fly them home, telling them the aircraft was unsafe. Evening Post readers on board the flight from Antalya in Turkey say a "mini-riot" broke out after the pilot walked into the cabin and made his dramatic announcement, then walked off the plane.
The aircraft, operated by Turkish budget airline Onur Air, was waiting for clearance to take-off.
About 180 passengers are understood to have been aboard the Airbus A321 for 30 minutes in stifling heat, as the air-conditioning was not working.
Full article here»»»
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displ...pNodeId=144922
Cheers
The aircraft, operated by Turkish budget airline Onur Air, was waiting for clearance to take-off.
About 180 passengers are understood to have been aboard the Airbus A321 for 30 minutes in stifling heat, as the air-conditioning was not working.
Full article here»»»
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displ...pNodeId=144922
Cheers
Ultralights,
Unfortunately the pax, in general, who frequent holidays that involve somewhat low,low, low cost travel are more interested in getting home (I don't suppose the heat was too pleasant, either) than being safe. Only those involved in aviation, particularly commercial, will understand just how brave a decision like this can be.
Unfortunately the pax, in general, who frequent holidays that involve somewhat low,low, low cost travel are more interested in getting home (I don't suppose the heat was too pleasant, either) than being safe. Only those involved in aviation, particularly commercial, will understand just how brave a decision like this can be.
More than just an ATCO
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Well done that man.
In May 2005 they were banned from landing in several European countries for a month after a number of airworthiness related problems were discovered.
The ban was lifted 12 days later after the problems had been addressed
In May 2005 they were banned from landing in several European countries for a month after a number of airworthiness related problems were discovered.
The ban was lifted 12 days later after the problems had been addressed
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Just the opinion of a ground engineer.
I would really like to know what was at fault on this plane. I have occasionally had pilots who refused to accept an aircraft even though I raised a HIL in accordance with the MEL and all applicable procedures, so that from a maintenance point and operational point of view the plane was servicable and legal to fly, because the pilot's opinion did not agree with the approved proceedures. In this case I usually let the chief pilot deal with the ensuing delay, means I will not accept it as maintence delay.
I also had occasional pilots who wanted to tell me how to troubleshoot and repair a problem and in one case refused to accept an airplane because the fault turned out to be caused by some other reason than the pilot imagined (on a B727 a low pressure light illuminated on a center tank boost pump, but only at high altitude. We traced it back to some water in the line connecting the pump output to the pressure switch, installed on the L/H front spar, which would freeze at high altitude and cut off the switch from pump pressure, thus erronously giving a false low pressure indication. The captain insisted that something must block the pump inlet, which to inspect would mean to enter the center tank, which is a major task and not easily doable on the ramp. He refused to accept the plane until we had entered the tank, giving a huge delay).
On the other hand I know from reliable sources in Turkey that there exist black lists for engineers and an engineer who grounds aircraft, no matter how justified, might find himself fired, with no chance ever finding a job again. I have seen Turkish engineers performing improvised, illegal, maintenance, just to meet the departure time, because the boss wouldn't let them get a spare part from another carrier abroad, due to cost reasons.
Jan
Jan
I would really like to know what was at fault on this plane. I have occasionally had pilots who refused to accept an aircraft even though I raised a HIL in accordance with the MEL and all applicable procedures, so that from a maintenance point and operational point of view the plane was servicable and legal to fly, because the pilot's opinion did not agree with the approved proceedures. In this case I usually let the chief pilot deal with the ensuing delay, means I will not accept it as maintence delay.
I also had occasional pilots who wanted to tell me how to troubleshoot and repair a problem and in one case refused to accept an airplane because the fault turned out to be caused by some other reason than the pilot imagined (on a B727 a low pressure light illuminated on a center tank boost pump, but only at high altitude. We traced it back to some water in the line connecting the pump output to the pressure switch, installed on the L/H front spar, which would freeze at high altitude and cut off the switch from pump pressure, thus erronously giving a false low pressure indication. The captain insisted that something must block the pump inlet, which to inspect would mean to enter the center tank, which is a major task and not easily doable on the ramp. He refused to accept the plane until we had entered the tank, giving a huge delay).
On the other hand I know from reliable sources in Turkey that there exist black lists for engineers and an engineer who grounds aircraft, no matter how justified, might find himself fired, with no chance ever finding a job again. I have seen Turkish engineers performing improvised, illegal, maintenance, just to meet the departure time, because the boss wouldn't let them get a spare part from another carrier abroad, due to cost reasons.
Jan
Jan
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I wonder what the real story is? Frankly, I'm a bit brassed off when I read quotations from well informed, highly educated (in technical and aviation matters amongst others) and sober "Sun Readers" telling the World about how unsafe an aircraft is, who said what and how they all saved the day! Reporting of matters aviation also leaves a lot to be desired, especially in Britain. I also wonder if there was something lost in translation. Onur Air doesn't have a good reputation in Europe but getting off before your pax, if this is true, is not really acceptable no matter what the reason and somewhat undoes the good of not flying a broken aircraft.
PM
PM
Piltdown man this may have something to do with it;
But kidding aside, he must have been completely fed up with this company already.
If memory serves me right Onur Air has been banned and readmitted several times in the last couple of years.
The captain, who is thought to be German
If memory serves me right Onur Air has been banned and readmitted several times in the last couple of years.
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MD11Engineer - Just because the MEL says the fault is legally acceptable doesn't mean it's always sensible or practical to depart with it.
The MEL is exactly that, the exact MINIMUM you can LEGALLY depart with. I don't see the word SAFE in there anywhere.
That's why we're paid to make decisions. Work with us, we're not trying to ruin your day by refusing defects, we're making sure ours doesn't go horribly wrong
The MEL is exactly that, the exact MINIMUM you can LEGALLY depart with. I don't see the word SAFE in there anywhere.
That's why we're paid to make decisions. Work with us, we're not trying to ruin your day by refusing defects, we're making sure ours doesn't go horribly wrong
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Passengers on an airliner bound for Bristol were plunged into panic when their captain refused to fly them home, telling them the aircraft was unsafe. Evening Post readers on board the flight from Antalya in Turkey say a "mini-riot" broke out after the pilot walked into the cabin and made his dramatic announcement, then walked off the plane
The Skipper may have been right, we don't know, but the reality of the situation is the only job this guy will ever get in turkey again is in a kebab shop. Somebody said he was german,. he must be pretty hard up for work to be flying for Onur Air. I can't imagine them paying their crews top dollar!
The Skipper may have been right, we don't know, but the reality of the situation is the only job this guy will ever get in turkey again is in a kebab shop. Somebody said he was german,. he must be pretty hard up for work to be flying for Onur Air. I can't imagine them paying their crews top dollar!
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Also the limitations that I find with the MEL is that sometimes although allowable in the book it doesn't take into account other failures or ADD's on the aircraft. I had an aircraft the other day where the APU was u/s and in line with the MEL was allowed to fly, on looking through the tech log though it became apparent that the generator on number one engine was not reliable, several reports of it dropping offline although the mighty engineers had checked it to be satisfactory on the ground. No matter how much the engineer thinks that I should accept an aircraft which could leave me with only one reliable generator doesn't mean that I will. When an engine fails and then the unreliable gen goes offline aswell he won't be the one sitting in the dark wishing that I had the APU as a backup.
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And for the record, something lost in translation meant that the Captain may have translated in verbatim what he was thinking and expressed this to the passengers. But when the Sun readers heard, they started to blub and panic, not realising that this was only one possible way of expalining the problem. Try asking a lawyer what the time is!
PM.
PM.
Paxing All Over The World
... Passengers on an airliner bound for Bristol were plunged into panic when their captain refused ...
The children in the press do like to use the word 'plunge' don't they? Here is a situation that might engender some irritation but the overwhelming feeling must have been of relief that the Cpt was concerned enough to make a stand - almost certainly knowing the risk he was running of it back-firing on him.
Of course, if he had accepted the machine then he might have been in the situation of 'bravely avoiding plunging into a school'.
JanetFlight,
Just what was the point of your post about this A321 problem? Surely this was simply a case of a Captain taking the trouble to personally inform the passengers of a problem. This is usually very well received, reassuring and very effective.
Your post is full of typical media hype:
Passengers 'plunged into panic'? Surely they were just very concerned that there would be a delay!
The Captain ' refused to fly'? He had to wait until the defect was rectified
Captain 'walked off' the airplane? Perhaps he went to help sort the problem?
'Mini-riot'? Probably just vociferous concerns about potential delay, alternative arrangements,etc,etc?
Aircraft 'awaiting clearance to takeoff'?? How did the Captain 'walk off' then? Clearance to takeoff is only given at the runway. This must have been a technical problem while still on the ramp.
'Evening Post readers' ?? I suspect that this is a backwater local paper seeking a sensationalist headline. Maybe there was a cub reporter aboard this particular flight?
Go away and learn something about professional aviation and keep your sensationalist and trivial posts off this professional forum.
Just what was the point of your post about this A321 problem? Surely this was simply a case of a Captain taking the trouble to personally inform the passengers of a problem. This is usually very well received, reassuring and very effective.
Your post is full of typical media hype:
Passengers 'plunged into panic'? Surely they were just very concerned that there would be a delay!
The Captain ' refused to fly'? He had to wait until the defect was rectified
Captain 'walked off' the airplane? Perhaps he went to help sort the problem?
'Mini-riot'? Probably just vociferous concerns about potential delay, alternative arrangements,etc,etc?
Aircraft 'awaiting clearance to takeoff'?? How did the Captain 'walk off' then? Clearance to takeoff is only given at the runway. This must have been a technical problem while still on the ramp.
'Evening Post readers' ?? I suspect that this is a backwater local paper seeking a sensationalist headline. Maybe there was a cub reporter aboard this particular flight?
Go away and learn something about professional aviation and keep your sensationalist and trivial posts off this professional forum.
Thread Starter
Hi 777Fly
I only repost here a mail i just received yesterday...i wasn't affirming anything!
It was post in a Rumours room...it wasn't to offend or said anything bad about anyone in particular
Cheers
PS: And its not very polite at all saying such words as "Go away and learn something about professional aviation..."!!!
You dont know me at all to say such thing, me thinks...You could be a 777 F/O at HVN and i could be a mere Cpt at new DTA 777!!!???
I only repost here a mail i just received yesterday...i wasn't affirming anything!
It was post in a Rumours room...it wasn't to offend or said anything bad about anyone in particular
Cheers
PS: And its not very polite at all saying such words as "Go away and learn something about professional aviation..."!!!
You dont know me at all to say such thing, me thinks...You could be a 777 F/O at HVN and i could be a mere Cpt at new DTA 777!!!???
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I think Janet was right to post the story, yes it has had the media "hype" done to it, but it is a very interesting case all the same.
Reading between the lines, I think this "incident" was the straw that broke the pilots back. Good luck to him in the future, he looks like he's going to need it.
Reading between the lines, I think this "incident" was the straw that broke the pilots back. Good luck to him in the future, he looks like he's going to need it.
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777Fly
I really dont see your problem. There are hundreds of threads on these forums that start by somebody posting a piece of press, to try and find out from those that may be better informed. Maybe people post them to find out if they are just rumours!
I really dont see your problem. There are hundreds of threads on these forums that start by somebody posting a piece of press, to try and find out from those that may be better informed. Maybe people post them to find out if they are just rumours!