Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321!!!
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So very very typical of R&Ns....immediate assumption is that the mini-riot was due to the LoCo type of SLF wanting the flight to carry on! Not how I read it at all - methinks they wanted off!!!!
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Well done for not taking the flight, but wrong move in using your fellow crewmemers and passengers as pawn in one's game plan.
The best thing the captain could have done was not board the aircraft, or have the passengesr get off the aircraft, and turn it over to the engineers. If no engineers are about, then unpower the jet.
This man is not even F/O material to abandon his crew to rath of the passsengers. Bottom line the bum is a coward.
The best thing the captain could have done was not board the aircraft, or have the passengesr get off the aircraft, and turn it over to the engineers. If no engineers are about, then unpower the jet. This man is not even F/O material to abandon his crew to rath of the passsengers. Bottom line the bum is a coward.
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Re-read my post... I said, and I quote
Perhaps I should clarify... unpower the jet after the passengers and fellow crewmembers have been deplaned.
The best thing the captain could have done was not board the aircraft, or have the passengesr get off the aircraft, and turn it over to the engineers. If no engineers are about, then unpower the jet.
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Well pointed out MD11
I have to concur with MD11 over one ot two points particularly short cutting??
I cite the Air Alaska Trim Jack Failure!
Eventually after several investigsations an engineer came foward assisted the FAA and never worked again! Branded a whisltle Blower! (well not in that field)
No, it wasn't because he was caught with his fingers in the proverbial fan blade either! and had to confess.
The FAA had found several dodgy practices and reports telling the management they had a problem before this particular accident occured.
Well done to the Pilot for having the B*lls!
I cite the Air Alaska Trim Jack Failure!
Eventually after several investigsations an engineer came foward assisted the FAA and never worked again! Branded a whisltle Blower! (well not in that field)
No, it wasn't because he was caught with his fingers in the proverbial fan blade either! and had to confess.
The FAA had found several dodgy practices and reports telling the management they had a problem before this particular accident occured.
Well done to the Pilot for having the B*lls!
Last edited by spannerless; 19th Sep 2006 at 12:42. Reason: missing comment
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. I have occasionally had pilots who refused to accept an aircraft even though I raised a HIL in accordance with the MEL and all applicable procedures, so that from a maintenance point and operational point of view the plane was servicable and legal to fly, because the pilot's opinion did not agree with the approved proceedures.
Jan
Jan
What about a piece of de-icing equipment deferred, the plane is legal to fly, but are you aware of whether or not the crew will encounter icing conditions?
I even had a mechanic defer the autopilot once because the ALT knob came off. This particular flight was a long one and required use of the upper flight levels (RVSM airspace) but without the autopilot was not possible. Consequently the MEL now states "No RVSM" under the autopilot deferral.
I would be very interested to hear what happens to this Captain, that was a very brave thing he did. I would guess that he was under a lot of pressure to take the airplane on previous occasions also.
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the news article states
Eventually the stewards got all the passengers off the plane and after waiting two hours they were told another Onur Air flight would take them back to the UK.
Between 10 and 20 passengers refused to get on the plane and were left behind in Turkey.
Those who chose to fly back had to pick their luggage out from a pile of bags dumped out of the first aircraft's hold. The four-hour flight, which was due at Bristol International Airport at 7pm on Wednesday, eventually arrived three hours late.
Between 10 and 20 passengers refused to get on the plane and were left behind in Turkey.
Those who chose to fly back had to pick their luggage out from a pile of bags dumped out of the first aircraft's hold. The four-hour flight, which was due at Bristol International Airport at 7pm on Wednesday, eventually arrived three hours late.
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The worry is that the savings / subsidies have to come from somewhere:
http://english.sabah.com.tr/E243096A...6A5C158F0.html
Competition in the air continues. Onur Air sells plane tickets for less than a cab fare.
After Pegasus announced its winter schedule rates, Onur Air joined the competition and sold 2,500 tickets for only 1 YTL.
Rivalry between airlines has caused plane ticket prices to drop down to unbelievable amounts. Yesterday, Onur Air announced it is selling 2,500 plane tickets for flights between September 25 and October 18 (Ramadan) for only 1 YTL. In about an hour, most of the tickets were sold. Even people who don't have any plans for the Ramadan month bought tickets. Meanwhile, bus companies have reacted against the prices by saying: "This is economical suicide. Airlines will go into bankruptcy if they keep lowering their prices."
http://english.sabah.com.tr/E243096A...6A5C158F0.html
Competition in the air continues. Onur Air sells plane tickets for less than a cab fare.
After Pegasus announced its winter schedule rates, Onur Air joined the competition and sold 2,500 tickets for only 1 YTL.
Rivalry between airlines has caused plane ticket prices to drop down to unbelievable amounts. Yesterday, Onur Air announced it is selling 2,500 plane tickets for flights between September 25 and October 18 (Ramadan) for only 1 YTL. In about an hour, most of the tickets were sold. Even people who don't have any plans for the Ramadan month bought tickets. Meanwhile, bus companies have reacted against the prices by saying: "This is economical suicide. Airlines will go into bankruptcy if they keep lowering their prices."
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After reading several quotes regarding the MEL not involving safety, I must protest. The MEL takes into account the aircraft systems only and not the various operational requirements of different airports. If it states that flight in icing conditions is not permitted in relation to a particular failure then further flight involves checking the route, this directly involves safety, no?
It is the responsibility of maintenance to provide all the relevant information in relation to a fault and then up to the commander to say yes or no. However the engineer can also say no and does not have to wait for a flightcrew decision but this normally is a clearcut no go.
The engineer can say it's dispatchable because the MEL says so, but common sense may say something else. Both parties must make all relevant info available because engineers may not be aware of other airports procedures or flight restrictions on any given day.
In nearly 20yrs in maint. I have never had a problem with a flight crew in relation to any MEL item being go/no go depending on outside factors. If it's safe to go the airplane goes. However sadly there are thick f%#ks on both sides of the fence who are more interested boosting their self importance than actually working together.
Read the MEL introduction when you have some time it covers a lot of the points raised in this thread
As for Onur air obviously that skipper was at the end of his tether although I would like to know the exact fault or faults involved
BRGDS
SB03
It is the responsibility of maintenance to provide all the relevant information in relation to a fault and then up to the commander to say yes or no. However the engineer can also say no and does not have to wait for a flightcrew decision but this normally is a clearcut no go.
The engineer can say it's dispatchable because the MEL says so, but common sense may say something else. Both parties must make all relevant info available because engineers may not be aware of other airports procedures or flight restrictions on any given day.
In nearly 20yrs in maint. I have never had a problem with a flight crew in relation to any MEL item being go/no go depending on outside factors. If it's safe to go the airplane goes. However sadly there are thick f%#ks on both sides of the fence who are more interested boosting their self importance than actually working together.
Read the MEL introduction when you have some time it covers a lot of the points raised in this thread
As for Onur air obviously that skipper was at the end of his tether although I would like to know the exact fault or faults involved
BRGDS
SB03
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[QUOTE=Boeing Pilot;2852219]Well done. He's my hero now.
is it really that outstanding brave??? apart from mere self-preservation thatīs what a passenger expects from the guys up front: to check the plane and NOT to fly if they regard it as unsafe (normally of course without retirement ...)
and if the pax are then brought home in another a/c .... to me it seems a correct procedure ....
is it really that outstanding brave??? apart from mere self-preservation thatīs what a passenger expects from the guys up front: to check the plane and NOT to fly if they regard it as unsafe (normally of course without retirement ...)
and if the pax are then brought home in another a/c .... to me it seems a correct procedure ....
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onur
This cpt is more or less always complaining and frustrated that he is not working at a major airline. What do all know about the maintenance of this company you all work there? Last year may when they where banned to fly to Holland there where two separate investigations of independent English company's and both they said that the Dutch CAA was wrong by banning them from Holland so the Dutch CAA is being sued by Onur. Also in this case it means there is only one save Pilot working there and the rest of the 249 pilots are stupid and unsafe? Also very professional to do it this way and walk away from it and leave the whole crew behind take the responsibility that where he gets paid for.
I don't think he like's Ryan air......
an 321 driver
I don't think he like's Ryan air......
an 321 driver
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some facts
I managed to get some more details from friends and a website (airporthaber.com):
The acft had an u/s APU for weeks. After eng.#2 has been started with grnd air, #1 should be started with x-bleed. During push and after opening the x-bleed valve the supplying eng.#2 shut itself down for unknown reasons.
(Airbus!)
The acft was pulled back to the parking stand and appearently this has happend before several times during earlier flights. Mx released the acft after
doing their tests every single time .
The capt. called his C/P and he told him, 'If you don´t fly it, you´re fired!'
His answer, 'why don´t you come and fly it yourself'
That was why he went and talked to the pax and told him he can´t fly because he was just fired for refusing to fly.
Pax where upset because of extreme temperatures in the plane.
Second hand info only...
The acft had an u/s APU for weeks. After eng.#2 has been started with grnd air, #1 should be started with x-bleed. During push and after opening the x-bleed valve the supplying eng.#2 shut itself down for unknown reasons.
(Airbus!)
The acft was pulled back to the parking stand and appearently this has happend before several times during earlier flights. Mx released the acft after
doing their tests every single time .
The capt. called his C/P and he told him, 'If you don´t fly it, you´re fired!'
His answer, 'why don´t you come and fly it yourself'
That was why he went and talked to the pax and told him he can´t fly because he was just fired for refusing to fly.
Pax where upset because of extreme temperatures in the plane.
Second hand info only...
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onur
Well he was not fired the he resigned for you're information just wondering you work there?
Just for you're info the cpt is frustrated that he is not working for a mayor airline and he is always complaining! Also in this case there is only one pilot working there who is safe so that means the rest of the (249) pilots are unsafe and stupid to fly unsafe aircraft. Also for you're info there are working a lot of ( unsafe? ) foreigners and Im one off them!!!!
greetz..
Just for you're info the cpt is frustrated that he is not working for a mayor airline and he is always complaining! Also in this case there is only one pilot working there who is safe so that means the rest of the (249) pilots are unsafe and stupid to fly unsafe aircraft. Also for you're info there are working a lot of ( unsafe? ) foreigners and Im one off them!!!!
greetz..
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Bbus, at Groningen EHGG we all learned how safe ONUR really was. There you guys were very, very lucky that no one was killed.
I am not surprised that the dutch CAA stepped up their SAFA inspections after one hull-loss and many more incidents.
Onur may take the dutch CAA to court, but how big is the chance that they will win anything out of it.
I wonder?
Fly safely, QTA
I am not surprised that the dutch CAA stepped up their SAFA inspections after one hull-loss and many more incidents.
Onur may take the dutch CAA to court, but how big is the chance that they will win anything out of it.
I wonder?
Fly safely, QTA
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For sure they won't winn at court.. But as we are speaking about onur and crashes there is one over run correct. So what does this mean? Look around what about crashes Air france 340, klm-panam 747-200 klm, ect. Even qantass has an over run with an 747 so does this mean they are un safe???
greetz
greetz
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Interesting report. It contains references to a few other over run events in other aircraft. I note that on one or two of these the pilots tried to work the problem during the take off run. This sound like a bad idea. Woudn't it be better to have a policy to reject, stop and vacate before making any attempt to fix the problem giving more time and less pressure?