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Old 6th Apr 2006, 14:10
  #201 (permalink)  
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Quite why sometimes escapes me as I happen to know that there are actual professional pilots on this forum who do not represent us too well either!
Nail ... hammer .. head!
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Old 7th Apr 2006, 00:00
  #202 (permalink)  
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The VFR chart that shows a heliport symbol when there's three obvious runways is an invitation to error -- once you're past the first airport (that perhaps looks abandoned -- subject to correction by those with local knowledge) the next one must be Londonderry However as airline crews do not generally carry VFR charts, this has little bearing on this incident.

It would be more relevant to see what different suppliers' approach plates show. If only one "abandoned" airport is mentioned on the plate and the ILS is u/s, you'd spot which "abandoned" airport and land at the next one

Are both "abandoned" airports shown on the approach plate used?
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Old 7th Apr 2006, 06:36
  #203 (permalink)  
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a320 wrong rwy

hello rather be flying & others,

i agree with your comment about the misleading symbology on the vfr chart, but normally these are not used for an ifr approach, even when this ifr approach is then followed by a visual approach. i don't know if there is still a legal requirement for the vfr charts to be on board at all. i always carry the latest edition of the pilots' atlas in my flightbag & noticed that many fellow pilots do the same. i find this atlas useful to look up at the briefing stage, when planning to go to an unfamiliar airport for geografical location , alternate airports etc... . in this case however, this atlas would not have saved the day.
read in flight international magazine that the flightcrew was suspended from active duty.

kind regards,
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Old 7th Apr 2006, 13:34
  #204 (permalink)  
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Am I the only one who thinks this nonsense has gone on quite long enough? Pilots have been landing on the wrong airfield from time to time ever since I can remember but I can't recall anyone else getting 11 pages on pprune out of it.

The reason that they made the mistake was that they were flying VFR at the time. Had there been a couple of tanks or a squad of soldiers on the runway then they would have gone around.

Before the hysterics start saying "but what if it had been IFR" then it is blatantly obvious that they wouldn't and/or couldn't have been in the situation in the first place.

Although I never quite managed it myself landing at the wrong airfield was almost de rigour when I learned to fly. As someone once said, there are those who have and those who are about to!
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Old 7th Apr 2006, 18:41
  #205 (permalink)  
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Could it me that this chap misidentified the airfield on his FIRST approach?

ie during the approach, comes out of cloud, sees Ballykelly, thinks its Eglinton but he's too high of course to land, so goes round, repositions himself 'correctly' for the airfield he just saw and lands?
Just thinking out loud so to speak. After all it wouldn't be a tight circuit round Eglinton if it included, say a four mile final for Ballykelly would it?
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Old 7th Apr 2006, 18:55
  #206 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by brain fade
Could it me that this chap misidentified the airfield on his FIRST approach?
You could be right. See the post by EscapedATCO on page 2. Reproduced in part below...
Sorry to report I saw the incident happen and also heard it on the radio. The A320 crew elected to go around after losing the ILS signals and asked for circuit details. From a viewing position west of Eglinton I saw the A320 turned downwind RH at EGQB(I believe the pilot said he thought he was to high to land but he looked perfect to me i.e. wrong airfield).
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Old 7th Apr 2006, 19:24
  #207 (permalink)  
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Well Brian-fade..

We both have been there quite a few times, and together on a few occasions, Airbus ND picture, and Rad Nav display would make mis-ident well nigh impossible,,,,,if and it's a big if , that it's programmed correctly..

After a go-around the flight plan gets re-sequenced, only if they actually went to TOGA, if there go-around was a level flight fly-over from the platform altitude then the Bus dumps the active flight plan, then you are on a blank screen..Early turn down-wind, no ND, less than perfect vis, then Ballykelly here we come...

Controllers at Derry used to be piss-poor,,,highish msa and procedural only used to make it a bit of a dogs dinner when it got busy, well more than 1 plane in the circuit, weird and wonderful arrival and departure clearances to keep procedural seperation...

Who knows, it will all come out in the wash, I'm sure the Irish Caa, will give a full and frank report when the time comes...
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Old 7th Apr 2006, 23:49
  #208 (permalink)  
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Hi Sport
And it's Brain not Brian fade if you don't mind! Yes we always managed to plonk it down where the folks bought tickets to.
I can easily see how a non-precision app could leave you more or less looking at either airfield when you break out of cloud depending on how exactly if was flown. The old 'dive and drive' in particular. Come to think of it BK is a bigger more noticeable place than Eglinton too.
Target fixation?

Regards to all in the desert old fruit!

BTW. As regards the incident itself. Big deal. Plane lands on runway. Not exactly going to make an episode of 'air crash investigation' is it?
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Old 16th Aug 2006, 21:44
  #209 (permalink)  
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Civil Airplane Lands At Military Field AGAIN!

History repeats itself. Remember the Eirjet? Today a Turkish charter flight did it again - in Poland. Filled with the passengers it landed... well, according to the schedule (at 19:50 CET), but... something went terribly wrong, just as at Ballykelly. The SHY335 flight from Antalya to Poznan (EPPO) landed at EPKS (Poznan - Krzesiny), one of the most important military airports in Central-Eastern Europe, Polish 31st Air Force Base located some 7 nm S from EPPO (see http://www.31blot.com/31blot_eng.html ). A while ago the plane was still there with the soldiers all over! Why is it happening again?
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Old 16th Aug 2006, 22:17
  #210 (permalink)  
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An update. The passengers had to spend about 3 hours at the military base aboard of the aircraft, but as the (female) pilot was tested for alcohol and found negative, the plane has been given a permission to fly to its proper destination.
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Old 18th Aug 2006, 13:02
  #211 (permalink)  
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Firstly, apologies for resurrecting the original thread
Secondly, i'm too old at 52 to be a wannabe, just a frequent flyer with a lifelong interest in aviation - enthusiastic amateur.
Having read the original thread, one interesting post comes to mind:
Eirjet use EAG charts,not Aerad or Jepps. I have used all 3 types at various times and the EAG charts are by far and away the least user friendly.Additionally they lack the detail of Jepp and Aerad.Think contributory factor here
Again I will stress I have no experience here, apart from flying in to EGSS in the jump seat of a 757 years ago with a Portuguese crew wet leased in to replace an Air UK flight, they had their Jepp map bulldog clipped to the control yoke (which concerned me slightly at the time, I never realised before that there was this A-Z of airport approaches available , but it did look a bit odd at the time) so I do at least understand what it is.
The only question I would ask, on the basis of the quote, is why someone would use EAG when there is apparently from the above post a better product available. It may well not be relevant to this thread anyway if it wasn't a contributory factor to the error, but the question is still valid in a wider context.
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