eirjet A320 LANDS AT WRONG AIRPORT!
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Well said Danny
...and therein lies the problem with PPrune.
What was once an excellent forum for professional pilots to pool ideas and news/rumours, has been overcome with PC pilot wannabees who just take any opportunity in turning every thread into a free-for-all slanging match.
It is for that reason I very rarely contibute or even read these forums anymore....
...and therein lies the problem with PPrune.
What was once an excellent forum for professional pilots to pool ideas and news/rumours, has been overcome with PC pilot wannabees who just take any opportunity in turning every thread into a free-for-all slanging match.
It is for that reason I very rarely contibute or even read these forums anymore....
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While it is true that as airline pilots we occasionally see the replies posted in the forum as nonsensical, I still believe that this should be an open forum not limited to aviation professionals as sometimes, interesting rumours and news which may affect us, may well start from outside our ranks.
After all I think we can easily identify the valid comments from the cr#p.
After all I think we can easily identify the valid comments from the cr#p.
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At great risk of sticking my neck out and attracting all sorts of unwanted attention, can I just say that not all Wanabees should be labelled / viewed in the same way as others?
I have been using these forums for nearly 3 years now, and used them initially to help determine my path through "the wanabee years" and as a great source of info whilst I am still training, and no doubt will continue to do so if I am lucky enough to get a job as a professional after all the hours of hard work and effort.
Without the fantastic debates and information provided by the various forums (Jetblast included
) I would not be the (private) pilot I am now, nor the Professional pilot I aspire to be. As with any walk of life, you will get people at each end of the spectrum who will polarise opinions - please do not associate all Wanabees with the same levels of intelligence / skill / tact / etc. After all, you were all wanabees too at one point.
I can't even begin to comprehend the workload on a flight deck in the final few minutes of flight (thanks to the closed flight deck door policy) having only been able to visit while on the ground in the last few years. But knowing the mistakes, and therefore massive learning points, I made during my training and ongoing, I can only feel empathy for these guys whilst also appreciating what could have been, but thankfully wasn't.
Sorry to change the direction of the thread slightly, perhaps now it can go back to the original point, and I'll skulk off back to the Private Flying and Wanabee areas...
DW.
I have been using these forums for nearly 3 years now, and used them initially to help determine my path through "the wanabee years" and as a great source of info whilst I am still training, and no doubt will continue to do so if I am lucky enough to get a job as a professional after all the hours of hard work and effort.
Without the fantastic debates and information provided by the various forums (Jetblast included
) I would not be the (private) pilot I am now, nor the Professional pilot I aspire to be. As with any walk of life, you will get people at each end of the spectrum who will polarise opinions - please do not associate all Wanabees with the same levels of intelligence / skill / tact / etc. After all, you were all wanabees too at one point.I can't even begin to comprehend the workload on a flight deck in the final few minutes of flight (thanks to the closed flight deck door policy) having only been able to visit while on the ground in the last few years. But knowing the mistakes, and therefore massive learning points, I made during my training and ongoing, I can only feel empathy for these guys whilst also appreciating what could have been, but thankfully wasn't.
Sorry to change the direction of the thread slightly, perhaps now it can go back to the original point, and I'll skulk off back to the Private Flying and Wanabee areas...
DW.
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Just to put genuine wannabes at ease, the points I make are to wannabes or pretenders who try to make the readershp believe that they are experienced airline pilots. It's one thing to make criticisms from a position of experience and it is another to come on here and pretend to be something you are not and at the same time using inflamatory language.
Wannabes and anyone else is welcome on here as long as they don't try to pretend to be something they are not as they inevitable get rumbled. Opinion is welcome from non-airline pilots as long as it is not trying to be from someone that hasn't a clue.
Wannabes and anyone else is welcome on here as long as they don't try to pretend to be something they are not as they inevitable get rumbled. Opinion is welcome from non-airline pilots as long as it is not trying to be from someone that hasn't a clue.
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Is the 320 GA more demanding than the 737? I can be pretty sure that in a 737 the workload goes thru the roof after GA. The PM will have to run the after takeoff checklist, call to Cabin crew, PA, set up FMC for re-land, descent and approach checks. I wouldnt be suprised if PM was halfway thru these tasks as they landed at the wrong place. The GA is way too demanding in my opinion!
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Ballkelly's Runway lights
[QUOTE=booke23]. To add to the confusion Ballykelly sometimes has its runway lights on.
Ballykelly does not have any Runway lights at all.
Ballykelly does not have any Runway lights at all.
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Originally Posted by Kestrel_909
I can't think of any significant obstabcles around
NS
With the greatest of respect to all you professionals, while I was a mere student PPL, I followed a professional on final in a metroliner onto the "correct" runway at a certain airport. I was warned off at the last minute by the tower, but the professional made a perfect landing on the wrong runway. No one was hurt, it was a good landing and I don't think it was even written up.
Translation : Its easier to do than some may think. I think a certain Asian airline mistook YMEN for YMML and was quite close before they realised the mistake, and in my case 31 was mistaken for 35 at YMMB, which is easy to do.
I think the appropriate quote might be "let him who has no sin cast the first stone..."?
Translation : Its easier to do than some may think. I think a certain Asian airline mistook YMEN for YMML and was quite close before they realised the mistake, and in my case 31 was mistaken for 35 at YMMB, which is easy to do.
I think the appropriate quote might be "let him who has no sin cast the first stone..."?
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Back when, I was working as an air taxi pilot at Miami International. One of my bosses pitched up with two nice young Venezuelans who had no English and a shiny-new V35B Bonanza they need to get up to some airport near Daytona Beach. (It was a long time ago so that I have forgotten the names of the airports, but as anyone who has flown there knows, Florida has a lot of airports that are often closely-spaced.)
Would the old pro (me, I guess) please ferry this V35B up there with them since they could not speako da lingo? 'Money for old rope,' right, plus a jolly in a really beautiful little machine. Off we went in CAVOK.
When we got to where we were going I was surprised to see the Goodyear blimp moored there. 'That's odd,' I thought. 'They are supposed to be at that other airport just six or seven miles away....' A quick look in the other direction and there, of course, was my real destination, just a few degrees off from where I was mistakenly heading.
So, as pointed out here, don't be too quick to jump on another crew for getting it publicly and embarrassingly wrong. It is so easy to get locked into a mistaken mindset; until it happens to you you might not believe that.
Would the old pro (me, I guess) please ferry this V35B up there with them since they could not speako da lingo? 'Money for old rope,' right, plus a jolly in a really beautiful little machine. Off we went in CAVOK.
When we got to where we were going I was surprised to see the Goodyear blimp moored there. 'That's odd,' I thought. 'They are supposed to be at that other airport just six or seven miles away....' A quick look in the other direction and there, of course, was my real destination, just a few degrees off from where I was mistakenly heading.
So, as pointed out here, don't be too quick to jump on another crew for getting it publicly and embarrassingly wrong. It is so easy to get locked into a mistaken mindset; until it happens to you you might not believe that.
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wannabes
WHERE YOU NOT ALL WANNABES AT ONE STAGE IN YOUR CAREERS ?
AND OBVIOUSLY WITH ME JUST BEING A REGULAR , EVERYDAY , AIRLINE PASSENGER WITH AN INTEREST IN AVIATION AND AIR SAFETY ISSUES MY OPINION IS WORTHLESS ?
MY VERY ORDINAIRY THREAD ABOUT MY RECENT EXPERIENCES WITH EIRJET HAS BEEN REMOVED ?
IF YOU WANTED A PROFFESIONAL PILOTS ONLY THREAD THERE MUST BE SOME WAY WITH ALL YOUR EXPERT KNOWLEDGE AND TECHNICAL EXPERTISE THAT YOU COULD EXCLUDE US WANNABES !
AND OBVIOUSLY WITH ME JUST BEING A REGULAR , EVERYDAY , AIRLINE PASSENGER WITH AN INTEREST IN AVIATION AND AIR SAFETY ISSUES MY OPINION IS WORTHLESS ?
MY VERY ORDINAIRY THREAD ABOUT MY RECENT EXPERIENCES WITH EIRJET HAS BEEN REMOVED ?
IF YOU WANTED A PROFFESIONAL PILOTS ONLY THREAD THERE MUST BE SOME WAY WITH ALL YOUR EXPERT KNOWLEDGE AND TECHNICAL EXPERTISE THAT YOU COULD EXCLUDE US WANNABES !
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regularpax - I cannot speak on behalf of pprune but for my part you are of course most welcome here. Some (and I do not include you in this) unfortunately claim to be professional pilots and as such there is a danger that the media, who are quoting sources on this site, might pick up on a "troll's" posting and quote it as the opinion of a professional pilot. Some of us are a little concerned. Quite why sometimes escapes me as I happen to know that there are actual professional pilots on this forum who do not represent us too well either! There we go tho'..... Regarding the disappearance of your posting, I believe it got lost along with a couple of pages worth which had descended into a rather unfortunate slanging match. A particularly good and worthwhile effort from Faire d'income also came a cropper which is quite a shame as he went to GREAT effort to expose one such troll. Happens, unfortunately..........
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Regularpax - no one is saying your opinion is worthless. In this case, however, it does not carry the same weight as that of a professional pilot. That is not arrogance - it is just common sense. It is like me appearing on some bulletin board for surgeons and spouting forth on the issue of medical negligence following an alleged 'botched' procedure. My opinion would quite rightly not carry the same weight as a surgeon venturing his professional opinion on the matter. Nonetheless, you have been truthful and stated that you are a passenger and as such your opinion is invited and encouraged.
You have also missed the main point Danny made - the individual he criticised deliberately attempted to conceal his credentials and made himself out to be more professionally able to comment on the incident in question than he actually was. This guy was extremely forthright in his criticism but lacked the professional credibility to do so. You will note that almost every single professional pilot on the thread has said words along the line, "there but for the grace of God go I". In the final analysis, there is a distinct likeliehood that some official criticism will be laid at the door of the crew involved - although at this stage that would only be conjecture. Regardless of that, I for one will feel nothing but sympathy for them, knowing that it could so easily have been me. I will be even more cautious than I already am when operating in marginal weather into airfields I am not familiar with.
You have also missed the main point Danny made - the individual he criticised deliberately attempted to conceal his credentials and made himself out to be more professionally able to comment on the incident in question than he actually was. This guy was extremely forthright in his criticism but lacked the professional credibility to do so. You will note that almost every single professional pilot on the thread has said words along the line, "there but for the grace of God go I". In the final analysis, there is a distinct likeliehood that some official criticism will be laid at the door of the crew involved - although at this stage that would only be conjecture. Regardless of that, I for one will feel nothing but sympathy for them, knowing that it could so easily have been me. I will be even more cautious than I already am when operating in marginal weather into airfields I am not familiar with.
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Originally Posted by Jambo Buana
Is the 320 GA more demanding than the 737? I can be pretty sure that in a 737 the workload goes thru the roof after GA. The PM will have to run the after takeoff checklist, call to Cabin crew, PA, set up FMC for re-land, descent and approach checks. I wouldnt be suprised if PM was halfway thru these tasks as they landed at the wrong place. The GA is way too demanding in my opinion!
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Go-arounds....
Its true, go arounds are stressful, and the workload high, so why did el capitan elect to do a tight visual circuit into in unfamiliar airfield, when he already had to bin the initial approach because he thought it wasn't right?
The errors the crew were making were compounding the problem. Had he followed the published GA prodedure he would have had time to do all the checks, and been better able to idenify his position, ie at the EGT beacon.
Sorry to say but it looks like very poor cockpit management.
JF
Its true, go arounds are stressful, and the workload high, so why did el capitan elect to do a tight visual circuit into in unfamiliar airfield, when he already had to bin the initial approach because he thought it wasn't right?
The errors the crew were making were compounding the problem. Had he followed the published GA prodedure he would have had time to do all the checks, and been better able to idenify his position, ie at the EGT beacon.
Sorry to say but it looks like very poor cockpit management.
JF
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I am a low hour PPL holder and I am well establised in my ground based aviation career to not be a wannabe however I do have ambition to learn from these forums and even at my lowly position I have learnt to read, learn and understand but mainly not begin to judge other people by their mistakes, let EirJet and the relevant authorities do that, perhaps we could all learn something by these guys misfortune/mistake.
One interesting thought, can you for one minute imagine the atmosphere on that flight deck when the penny dropped?
One interesting thought, can you for one minute imagine the atmosphere on that flight deck when the penny dropped?
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Sounds to me like the crew had a high workload during the approach, and as far as the missed approach goes, did they request or were they issued the procedure they flew, does anyone know? And again, does anyone know whether or not they had that runway in the database, this could have played a part.