BA considers quitting shorthaul-BBC
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I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread....a good old BA vs CF battle. Fluke has certainly backed down a bit since his initial comments on the "Quality" issues when comparing the two.
Whatever happens, someone will end up using the slots at LGW if BA pull out, and I suspect them boys in orange will be top of the list.
Would Fluke ever lower himself to fly a 737 with an orange tail? There would have to be a real shift in attitude first!
Whatever happens, someone will end up using the slots at LGW if BA pull out, and I suspect them boys in orange will be top of the list.
Would Fluke ever lower himself to fly a 737 with an orange tail? There would have to be a real shift in attitude first!
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Overstress
Methinks that the only link with water will be whether BA manages to keep its head above it. I suspect that the answer for LGW will be the removal of the BA lifeboat which is itself taking on water, faster than Rod and his boys can bail out.
The future for LGW could have been a world away from the current situation. If only!!!
Never mind, as they say "The Futures Bright, The Futures Orange".
Methinks that the only link with water will be whether BA manages to keep its head above it. I suspect that the answer for LGW will be the removal of the BA lifeboat which is itself taking on water, faster than Rod and his boys can bail out.
The future for LGW could have been a world away from the current situation. If only!!!
Never mind, as they say "The Futures Bright, The Futures Orange".
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BA won't bail out of LGW, even if the water is pouring in. What you will see happening is the company 'farming ' out the work to Citiexpress and GB/BMed where the costs are inherently lower. As an observer I would have said that the majority of City Flyer's pilots would have welcomed being bought out by BA, increased salary, better pension(at least I think so) and the chance of flying a vast array of aircraft(seniority permitting).
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Ok, some relevant points in this hot topic.
Speaking as one who has operated 3 yrs at EOG and 4 years at Eurofleet LHR, and having operated on countless 73/75/767 flights I may qualify for an opinion (!)
Obviously the overiding factors here are cost and market conditions and these have both altered drmatically in recent times.
It is fair comment that EOG has a low cost base, and a very good job they do to, but you need consistently high club loads to maintain a routes viability - this really only occurs on flights to/from LHR.
It appears that the day of duplicated routes from airports 35 miles apart is drawing nigh to a (partial) close.
Meanwhile, LHR S/H has changed alot in recent times too, whereas one route may have had 3X 767's a day 3 yrs ago , they may have 2-3 A319/757 flights now.
Maintaining an on-time quality product is vital to LHR's future, with T5 almost certainly on the way, we need a seamless quality UK airline to maintain and provide for the millions who visit,bring business to, and transit through the UK.
I agree with sentiments shown on P1 by mjenkinsblackdog - who said that if BA sell out of europe , passengers will quickly go to Lufthansa,KLM,Air France . . . .
There are alot of inefficiencies that need to be driven out , but keeping a national is all so important (as recent times have proved)
After 9>11 ,and with 2002 in sight ,wishing all in UK and Worldwide aviation good times again ahead.
Speaking as one who has operated 3 yrs at EOG and 4 years at Eurofleet LHR, and having operated on countless 73/75/767 flights I may qualify for an opinion (!)
Obviously the overiding factors here are cost and market conditions and these have both altered drmatically in recent times.
It is fair comment that EOG has a low cost base, and a very good job they do to, but you need consistently high club loads to maintain a routes viability - this really only occurs on flights to/from LHR.
It appears that the day of duplicated routes from airports 35 miles apart is drawing nigh to a (partial) close.
Meanwhile, LHR S/H has changed alot in recent times too, whereas one route may have had 3X 767's a day 3 yrs ago , they may have 2-3 A319/757 flights now.
Maintaining an on-time quality product is vital to LHR's future, with T5 almost certainly on the way, we need a seamless quality UK airline to maintain and provide for the millions who visit,bring business to, and transit through the UK.
I agree with sentiments shown on P1 by mjenkinsblackdog - who said that if BA sell out of europe , passengers will quickly go to Lufthansa,KLM,Air France . . . .
There are alot of inefficiencies that need to be driven out , but keeping a national is all so important (as recent times have proved)
After 9>11 ,and with 2002 in sight ,wishing all in UK and Worldwide aviation good times again ahead.
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The biggest mistake made at LGW was to merge Cityflyer with EOG plain and simple.
The merger has been a disaster from start to finish this I have heard first hand from a very senior BA manager.
What a waste to turn a lean cost efficient airline making money into EOG.
Those of us in Citiexpress in the main want nothing to do with BA seniority lists, scope clauses or anything else to do with mainline BA,its bad enough being saddled with BAR.
Look out for big changes in the New Year.
The merger has been a disaster from start to finish this I have heard first hand from a very senior BA manager.
What a waste to turn a lean cost efficient airline making money into EOG.
Those of us in Citiexpress in the main want nothing to do with BA seniority lists, scope clauses or anything else to do with mainline BA,its bad enough being saddled with BAR.
Look out for big changes in the New Year.
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Of course it was a stupid move, plain and simple.
Lots of people in the industry looked on aghast when BA announced the decision. It's too late to go back now though. What is frustrating is that LGW will start to suffer a slow death with BA either gradually vacating the place or taking the plunge and pulling out altogether.
Whatever the T & C issues between EOG and CFE, it benefits no-one (except EZY) to have LGW fail altogether for BA, as everyone ends up losing their jobs.
I know that a lot of the BA managers were appalled at the decision when it was made. It will be interesting to see if those responsible for driving it through ever suffer for their decision, made in the teeth of opposition from the CFE management who told them exactly what would happen.
Sept 11th is not to blame for this, it has merely accelerated the inevitable.
Lots of people in the industry looked on aghast when BA announced the decision. It's too late to go back now though. What is frustrating is that LGW will start to suffer a slow death with BA either gradually vacating the place or taking the plunge and pulling out altogether.
Whatever the T & C issues between EOG and CFE, it benefits no-one (except EZY) to have LGW fail altogether for BA, as everyone ends up losing their jobs.
I know that a lot of the BA managers were appalled at the decision when it was made. It will be interesting to see if those responsible for driving it through ever suffer for their decision, made in the teeth of opposition from the CFE management who told them exactly what would happen.
Sept 11th is not to blame for this, it has merely accelerated the inevitable.
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Unbelievably stupid. 
So, a few months down the line at LGW, the way things are looking - CityFlyer Express to CitiExpress. That's it, just knock off the 'y', change it to an 'i', knock out the 'flyer' and bingo...!
(Not to mention totally screwing up a great and profitable operation and writing off the last chance in the foreseeable to make BA shorthaul LGW profitable and still keep a split cabin operation - and therefore product differentiation from the competition - viable. I somehow don't think a can of coke and a bag of pretzels will tempt customers away from EZ/FR/GO etc. when Club Europe disappears...)
Genius. NOT.
So, a few months down the line at LGW, the way things are looking - CityFlyer Express to CitiExpress. That's it, just knock off the 'y', change it to an 'i', knock out the 'flyer' and bingo...!
(Not to mention totally screwing up a great and profitable operation and writing off the last chance in the foreseeable to make BA shorthaul LGW profitable and still keep a split cabin operation - and therefore product differentiation from the competition - viable. I somehow don't think a can of coke and a bag of pretzels will tempt customers away from EZ/FR/GO etc. when Club Europe disappears...)
Genius. NOT.
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Amazon man
"Those of us in Citiexpress in the main........bad enough being saddled with BAR."
Don't suppose you'll turn away the opportunity of 'saddling' yourself with all the additional BAR routes though, since it won't do your career prospects any harm. unlike BA pilots and cabin crew who have seen their career prospects trashed to outsource flying to your cheap and cheerful brigade, so we can keep spewing cash out of HMS Waterworld!
I think the reason your 'very senior BA manager' (is that a contradiction in terms?) thinks the whole thing is a disaster is because BALPA, acting in all pilot's best interests, scotched BA's cosy idea of outsourcing flight deck jobs to the lowest bidder.
Then again, judging from your comments on seniority lists, scope clauses, and anything else to do with mainline BA, perhaps you actually want to be the lowest common denominator, driving everyone's salaries down! personally, I think most people want to see the opposite.
Take it from me, what goes around, comes around.
Grow up mate.
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Tandemrotor ]
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Tandemrotor ]
"Those of us in Citiexpress in the main........bad enough being saddled with BAR."
Don't suppose you'll turn away the opportunity of 'saddling' yourself with all the additional BAR routes though, since it won't do your career prospects any harm. unlike BA pilots and cabin crew who have seen their career prospects trashed to outsource flying to your cheap and cheerful brigade, so we can keep spewing cash out of HMS Waterworld!
I think the reason your 'very senior BA manager' (is that a contradiction in terms?) thinks the whole thing is a disaster is because BALPA, acting in all pilot's best interests, scotched BA's cosy idea of outsourcing flight deck jobs to the lowest bidder.
Then again, judging from your comments on seniority lists, scope clauses, and anything else to do with mainline BA, perhaps you actually want to be the lowest common denominator, driving everyone's salaries down! personally, I think most people want to see the opposite.
Take it from me, what goes around, comes around.
Grow up mate.
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Tandemrotor ]
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Tandemrotor ]
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Now, now. I totally agree with Amazon Man. Of course we wish BA could make a profit, of course we wish we could be paid 95k before allowances, (not to mention the actual size of the allowances scale!!!!!) No, I'm not jealous, I was quite happy with my lot being a reasonably paid member of the UK's most profitable airline, (in return on turnover terms). Now, whilst I totally acknowledge the ineptitude, the incompetence, the sheer lack of understanding of basic cost control that afflicts our new BA bosses - you BA pilot guys have to acknowledge also that your bloated Ts and Cs are part of the problem. Sure, I could use more money, but I get paid enough for a decent life. Now, to hear that I may have to sit next to a BA guy being paid a bloody sight more because BA can't use its own people - its irritating at the least.
As to the shorthaul routes out of MAN etc. Are you seriously suggesting that BA mainline can afford to run these thin routes with a cost base the same as the fat longhaul routes. Dear oh dear, there is no RIGHT to a job in this world boys. Coming from a Company which puts profitability first, it does at least mean that my job has been secure all the time I've been here. Now, because I'm apparently lucky enough to be part of a (pause while I guffaw) world class company, I'm on a pay freeze, no increments this year, no cost of living, and assimilating the huge losses of BAR into our bottom line.
I suggest you take an 'O' level in basic economics before you dare to start criticising a Company that can at least turn a profit. (And that's not to say I support our management. The profits could have been a great deal bigger and better if Brewitt, Moll, and the rest of them had displayed a little leadership and actually LED the pilot workforce instead of dictating how it would be. However, Brewitt and Moll's era is beginning to look like the bible according to sound management compared to De La Fosse and McLaren and the other fifty General Managers we have already accumulated.
DOOOOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
And another thing. I don't want ot be part of your seniority list. I don't want your bloody scope clause (from what I can see it will prevent me ever getting onto a jet.) I don't want anything to do with your Company - and if you can't see that a high cost base causes eventual company failure, then you deserve everything coming to you. I'm not a management apologist. British Leyland were stuffed primarily by incompetent management, just like BA, however the refusal to see the effect of basic arithmetic by the likes of Red Robbo and his mates made things a lot worse than they needed to be.
Rant over.
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Charizard ]
As to the shorthaul routes out of MAN etc. Are you seriously suggesting that BA mainline can afford to run these thin routes with a cost base the same as the fat longhaul routes. Dear oh dear, there is no RIGHT to a job in this world boys. Coming from a Company which puts profitability first, it does at least mean that my job has been secure all the time I've been here. Now, because I'm apparently lucky enough to be part of a (pause while I guffaw) world class company, I'm on a pay freeze, no increments this year, no cost of living, and assimilating the huge losses of BAR into our bottom line.
I suggest you take an 'O' level in basic economics before you dare to start criticising a Company that can at least turn a profit. (And that's not to say I support our management. The profits could have been a great deal bigger and better if Brewitt, Moll, and the rest of them had displayed a little leadership and actually LED the pilot workforce instead of dictating how it would be. However, Brewitt and Moll's era is beginning to look like the bible according to sound management compared to De La Fosse and McLaren and the other fifty General Managers we have already accumulated.
DOOOOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
And another thing. I don't want ot be part of your seniority list. I don't want your bloody scope clause (from what I can see it will prevent me ever getting onto a jet.) I don't want anything to do with your Company - and if you can't see that a high cost base causes eventual company failure, then you deserve everything coming to you. I'm not a management apologist. British Leyland were stuffed primarily by incompetent management, just like BA, however the refusal to see the effect of basic arithmetic by the likes of Red Robbo and his mates made things a lot worse than they needed to be.
Rant over.
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Charizard ]
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Who in the hell would want to work for BA these days?
Many other airlines offer similar levels of good training and safe operation on modern aircraft. Yet they don't suffer from the bitter infighting of BA. Cabin Crew and Flightdeck are at each others throats, everybody hates carrying Waterworld and they are all living in a slowly shrinking company. I'm sure the good time in BA are great - as they will be again in 5 years time. But the 5 years of misery as the downturn comes cancels that out.
I'd take a high morale and short time to command over any fancy final salary - retire at 55 pension scheme any day of the week. The low costs must be laughing their socks off at the moment as they offer exactly that. Its all very well saying BA pilots earn more on average. If you allow for a lot of that figure being LHR crews and the fact that living anywhere near the SE of England is hugely expensive they have less to spend each month than any Charter pilot living out of the SE with a Mortgage half the size.
I would never consider applying to BA and believe me - I fit right into their stated recruitment DEP profile.
I don't want to see a once great company down but the fact remains - from the outside they look increasingly rubbish to work for.
PS.
Many other airlines offer similar levels of good training and safe operation on modern aircraft. Yet they don't suffer from the bitter infighting of BA. Cabin Crew and Flightdeck are at each others throats, everybody hates carrying Waterworld and they are all living in a slowly shrinking company. I'm sure the good time in BA are great - as they will be again in 5 years time. But the 5 years of misery as the downturn comes cancels that out.
I'd take a high morale and short time to command over any fancy final salary - retire at 55 pension scheme any day of the week. The low costs must be laughing their socks off at the moment as they offer exactly that. Its all very well saying BA pilots earn more on average. If you allow for a lot of that figure being LHR crews and the fact that living anywhere near the SE of England is hugely expensive they have less to spend each month than any Charter pilot living out of the SE with a Mortgage half the size.
I would never consider applying to BA and believe me - I fit right into their stated recruitment DEP profile.
I don't want to see a once great company down but the fact remains - from the outside they look increasingly rubbish to work for.
PS.
Latest rumour I heard was that BA wouldn't just give the Gatwick 737 operation wholesale over to GB, but they were negotiating a deal for BA to take over the few Heathrow slots which GB holds before BA bails out of Gatwick completely in return. 737s to GB, RJ146s to BACE.
BA are half-way down the slippery slope at Gatwick now. It's unprofitable; so they cut routes which are unprofitable and hand the slots back. Along come easyJet and compete with BA on routes like Geneva, Barcelona and Amsterdam from Gatwick and then those routes become unprofitable so get cut. More slots go back, easyJet expand...this could continue until there's no BA and a huge easyJet operation at Gatwick. I bet easy would love to launch some domestics from Gatwick but just can't get enough slots to launch them at high frequency.
I wonder what the "BA Future Size and Shape" quango will come up with about Gatwick? What's the betting that they demand a low-cost subsidiary at Gatwick to keep any presence there - only 12 months after they started integrating the only hope they had of keeping LGW alive.
Yes, EOG may have the lowest cost base of any operation within BA. However, I'll bet it's still a damn sight higher than easyJet's, with whom they are competing. Look at all those fancy exec lounges, Jubilee House, costly union agreements on rostering and working practices etc. Unless they can EITHER get the costbase down OR maintain significantly higher revenues to pay for it, they are stuffed.
I heard a little story last week. A crew were ready to push back for departure to wherever and called the ground crew for start. The tug was just in the process of disconnecting, so the captain asked the tug crew what was going on. "End of our shift," came the reply. "We go off at 12 today, so you'll just have to wait for another tug." 40 minutes later, one arrived and the crew were absolutely speechless. I have heard several occurrences of crews delaying flights because their crew meals were not aboard PURELY because they would be hauled over the coals by their union for setting a precedent to management of departing without them.
How the hell can you expect to run a profitable operation with low costs and good customer service if your airline is riddled with silly agreements like this, enforced to the letter by people who feel they have no option to stick by those agreements to "fit in" at BA?
BA have *never* understood how to make Gatwick work for them and have a consistent track record of ******ing up operations which they have bought there. Dan-Air had a low cost base which they managed to increase substantially to quasi-BA levels before buying CityFlyer and stuffing that as well by merging it into EOG.
Do civilisation a favour. Let BA go from Gatwick and give someone half-decent a chance of making it work, offering a punctual service at the right times, getting your bag back to the terminal within 20 minutes of landing (instead of the usual 40) and cutting the crap out that you don't need (hot meals to Aberdeen etc). That would be pretty out-of-keeping with the numerous recent flights I've had with EOG, but that's what I think is needed as a frequent flyer with them from Gatwick.
------------
New BA policy decision. With immediate effect, catering on short-haul flights will change from a torpedo roll with a fun-size Mars Bar to a fun-size torpedo roll and a Miniature Hero.
BA are half-way down the slippery slope at Gatwick now. It's unprofitable; so they cut routes which are unprofitable and hand the slots back. Along come easyJet and compete with BA on routes like Geneva, Barcelona and Amsterdam from Gatwick and then those routes become unprofitable so get cut. More slots go back, easyJet expand...this could continue until there's no BA and a huge easyJet operation at Gatwick. I bet easy would love to launch some domestics from Gatwick but just can't get enough slots to launch them at high frequency.
I wonder what the "BA Future Size and Shape" quango will come up with about Gatwick? What's the betting that they demand a low-cost subsidiary at Gatwick to keep any presence there - only 12 months after they started integrating the only hope they had of keeping LGW alive.
Yes, EOG may have the lowest cost base of any operation within BA. However, I'll bet it's still a damn sight higher than easyJet's, with whom they are competing. Look at all those fancy exec lounges, Jubilee House, costly union agreements on rostering and working practices etc. Unless they can EITHER get the costbase down OR maintain significantly higher revenues to pay for it, they are stuffed.
I heard a little story last week. A crew were ready to push back for departure to wherever and called the ground crew for start. The tug was just in the process of disconnecting, so the captain asked the tug crew what was going on. "End of our shift," came the reply. "We go off at 12 today, so you'll just have to wait for another tug." 40 minutes later, one arrived and the crew were absolutely speechless. I have heard several occurrences of crews delaying flights because their crew meals were not aboard PURELY because they would be hauled over the coals by their union for setting a precedent to management of departing without them.
How the hell can you expect to run a profitable operation with low costs and good customer service if your airline is riddled with silly agreements like this, enforced to the letter by people who feel they have no option to stick by those agreements to "fit in" at BA?
BA have *never* understood how to make Gatwick work for them and have a consistent track record of ******ing up operations which they have bought there. Dan-Air had a low cost base which they managed to increase substantially to quasi-BA levels before buying CityFlyer and stuffing that as well by merging it into EOG.
Do civilisation a favour. Let BA go from Gatwick and give someone half-decent a chance of making it work, offering a punctual service at the right times, getting your bag back to the terminal within 20 minutes of landing (instead of the usual 40) and cutting the crap out that you don't need (hot meals to Aberdeen etc). That would be pretty out-of-keeping with the numerous recent flights I've had with EOG, but that's what I think is needed as a frequent flyer with them from Gatwick.
------------
New BA policy decision. With immediate effect, catering on short-haul flights will change from a torpedo roll with a fun-size Mars Bar to a fun-size torpedo roll and a Miniature Hero.
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Peter Skellan et al,
Yet again on a BA thread it would appear some of those with the most to rant about have little, if anything, to do with the company - But hey, everybody is entitled to their view.
For what its worth I'm just a simple airman me, I enjoy my flying, I get paid well for doing it, excellent allowances, just the right amount of time off, AND I get on very well with the cabin crew thankyou very much.
Apparently there is a building near Heathrow, too many people in it not pulling their weight and costing too much.
I don't care, never even been there. Head in the sand ?. Maybe, but I leave the politics to the people who thrive on that sought of thing and to the rather talented people on the BA company council, who seem to have a flair for it.
'from the outside they look increasingly rubbish to work for' - Well from the inside they look pretty good I can tell you, though not without their faults.
'I would never apply to BA' - Well don't then. I'm only here through fate and the fact that I would'nt mind flying long haul at some stage (cant do that at a low cost operator, YET). There are lots of companies I would choose not to work for, but I dont feel the need to post the fact.
I'm a long way down the seniority list, under the current strategic review I may even lose my job, oh well timing is everything as they say, I probably got in a bit too late. But at the moment its all just speculation and I'll just keep turning up, and enjoy my flying, not much else I can do you see. But to all those who think just because the company is going through a rough patch its all doom and gloom I can assure you BA is a very good company to work for, just so long as you're a pilot not a politician.
I just can't understand why some of you who dont work for BA feel the need to get so worked up about BA's problems. Aspirations fadeing perhaps.... ?
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Super Stall ]
Yet again on a BA thread it would appear some of those with the most to rant about have little, if anything, to do with the company - But hey, everybody is entitled to their view.
For what its worth I'm just a simple airman me, I enjoy my flying, I get paid well for doing it, excellent allowances, just the right amount of time off, AND I get on very well with the cabin crew thankyou very much.
Apparently there is a building near Heathrow, too many people in it not pulling their weight and costing too much.
I don't care, never even been there. Head in the sand ?. Maybe, but I leave the politics to the people who thrive on that sought of thing and to the rather talented people on the BA company council, who seem to have a flair for it.
'from the outside they look increasingly rubbish to work for' - Well from the inside they look pretty good I can tell you, though not without their faults.
'I would never apply to BA' - Well don't then. I'm only here through fate and the fact that I would'nt mind flying long haul at some stage (cant do that at a low cost operator, YET). There are lots of companies I would choose not to work for, but I dont feel the need to post the fact.
I'm a long way down the seniority list, under the current strategic review I may even lose my job, oh well timing is everything as they say, I probably got in a bit too late. But at the moment its all just speculation and I'll just keep turning up, and enjoy my flying, not much else I can do you see. But to all those who think just because the company is going through a rough patch its all doom and gloom I can assure you BA is a very good company to work for, just so long as you're a pilot not a politician.
I just can't understand why some of you who dont work for BA feel the need to get so worked up about BA's problems. Aspirations fadeing perhaps.... ?
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: Super Stall ]
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Peter Skellan
"I'd take a high morale, and short time to command..."
Me too. BAR at BHX was, and I guess still is a great place to work from. It also MAKES A PROFIT!!! Inspite of the best efforts of management.
Just incase you are interested in the facts, I was amazed to read that you think BAR pilots earn more on average than the low costs (bloated terms and conditions!) People actually choose to work in the regions for many reasons - see 'high morale and short time to command!' - But NEVER financial!. Have you any idea WHATEVER of what a regional captain and first officer are paid? I suspect you would be very surprised!!
As for your ridiculous comment about retiring on a FSS at 55. Let's talk again when you are 60, and trying to buy an annuity!!
By the way, I really am terribly sorry "Super stall", but I am struggling to maintain your levels of enthusiasm for this Company. But decent management would change that.
"I'd take a high morale, and short time to command..."
Me too. BAR at BHX was, and I guess still is a great place to work from. It also MAKES A PROFIT!!! Inspite of the best efforts of management.
Just incase you are interested in the facts, I was amazed to read that you think BAR pilots earn more on average than the low costs (bloated terms and conditions!) People actually choose to work in the regions for many reasons - see 'high morale and short time to command!' - But NEVER financial!. Have you any idea WHATEVER of what a regional captain and first officer are paid? I suspect you would be very surprised!!
As for your ridiculous comment about retiring on a FSS at 55. Let's talk again when you are 60, and trying to buy an annuity!!
By the way, I really am terribly sorry "Super stall", but I am struggling to maintain your levels of enthusiasm for this Company. But decent management would change that.
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Did somebody say BA LGW 737 short haul ops to GB and RJ146's to BACE...?! In return for a handful of LHR slots?
Surely GB and BACE wouldn't have enough people to cover the strike...!
I suppose the future for BA LGW is going to be quite harsh, though.
Surely GB and BACE wouldn't have enough people to cover the strike...!
I suppose the future for BA LGW is going to be quite harsh, though.
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Charizard : As regards "I dont want your bloody scope clause" well, when you eventually get on your jet-ette you may find after a while you get pretty bored of what lies between 5W and 6E and may really appreciate the chance to look outside without having to change company.
As for "I dont want anything to do with your Company" - tough s**t , it bought yours.
As for "I dont want anything to do with your Company" - tough s**t , it bought yours.
Yes you bought us out, but unfortunately big BA are haemhorraging so much bloody money that there is a real risk we could get dragged down with you. CFE has already been ruined, let's hope (and pray) that some lessons were learnt and our nice wee profit making airline will survive whatever b*stardised plan that these geniuses in Waterworld are dreaming up for us.
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Cumulo-granite,
If your a BA pilot and talking of striking in the present climate then this only confirms what a lot of us beleive that BA pilots are not living in the same aviation enviroment as the rest of us.
If your a BA pilot and talking of striking in the present climate then this only confirms what a lot of us beleive that BA pilots are not living in the same aviation enviroment as the rest of us.
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The basic pay no longer matches that of a year 1, 2 & 3 DEP compared to ANY charter FO. The pension is now less than Britannias.
If you are NOT LHR then You spend your entire career bitching about their allowances.
The rest of the BA empire is equally screwed.
More is the pity.
If you are NOT LHR then You spend your entire career bitching about their allowances.
The rest of the BA empire is equally screwed.
More is the pity.