A320 off the runway at LBA
Commenting on the commercial side of things.
Sammypilot:
Unfortunately you are only partially correct in this, by no means all holiday companies give information to this level of accuracy or truthfulness. Indeed, one of the principal reasons why they all go to the same destination on the same day (in this case, Fuerteventura on a Wednesday) is so they can chop and change as required by the loads booked.
It is also true that those holiday companies who use the less-mainstream carriers are also those who more commonly leave out the flight detail, and there must be some connection here.
In this case we have LTU, a German carrier, setting up a Spanish operation, LTE, who in turn seem to be out of capacity (not at a peak season time for Spain, one wonders where their fleet has gone) and they have subbed in from a Jordanian small-scale operator for a charter from a British tour operator. I challenge anyone to find any holiday tour brochure which explains such detail. I am reminded of the Birgenair 757 accident in the Dominican Republic some years ago which had a similar long chain of subcontracted responsibility.
This subcharter was not a one-off but has apparently been going on for LTE for some time. I wonder whose insurance the passengers were actually on.
Most prudent holiday makers, when booking, check to see who they are flying with. Usually the brochure has towards it's rear, the airline to be used on a particular flight plus the type of aircraft to be used.
Unfortunately you are only partially correct in this, by no means all holiday companies give information to this level of accuracy or truthfulness. Indeed, one of the principal reasons why they all go to the same destination on the same day (in this case, Fuerteventura on a Wednesday) is so they can chop and change as required by the loads booked.
It is also true that those holiday companies who use the less-mainstream carriers are also those who more commonly leave out the flight detail, and there must be some connection here.
In this case we have LTU, a German carrier, setting up a Spanish operation, LTE, who in turn seem to be out of capacity (not at a peak season time for Spain, one wonders where their fleet has gone) and they have subbed in from a Jordanian small-scale operator for a charter from a British tour operator. I challenge anyone to find any holiday tour brochure which explains such detail. I am reminded of the Birgenair 757 accident in the Dominican Republic some years ago which had a similar long chain of subcontracted responsibility.
This subcharter was not a one-off but has apparently been going on for LTE for some time. I wonder whose insurance the passengers were actually on.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: England.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not a particularly challenging runway in terms of length....
Can catch the unfamiliar unawares, leading to.....well, there's a thing......a long landing! Not good.
Have they got something against level tarmac lined up with the prevailing winds in Leeds?
Cost 3d. Yorkshire. Nuff said.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Coventry, UK
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LTE are nothing to do with LTU anymore, they sold their stake a while back. This was a flight for MyTravel Holidays (not airways), LTE have operated for a number of years for British tour ops without problems.
Still wondering if this flight was a fully blown wet lease (ie Jordan Aviation crew) or whether LTE have just leased the aircraft?
Still wondering if this flight was a fully blown wet lease (ie Jordan Aviation crew) or whether LTE have just leased the aircraft?
Forewarned is Forearmed
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: uk
Age: 60
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with +v'e ROC's comments, once the AAIB has given it the once over, tow it back on. no real big story for the Journos here.
It certainly looks like it is well within the RESA for the runway, so it should be a straight forward job of getting it back on a spot of digging laying a few bits of tracking for the wheels along with properly placed towing staps & a decent tug & should be on in no time
Good luck chaps, been there & done it 3 times
It certainly looks like it is well within the RESA for the runway, so it should be a straight forward job of getting it back on a spot of digging laying a few bits of tracking for the wheels along with properly placed towing staps & a decent tug & should be on in no time
Good luck chaps, been there & done it 3 times
Just a commentquestion on the photos posted. The earth ahead of the nosegear seems to be churned up some ten feet ahead of the gear itself. Probably large chunks of good farmland tossed forward by the nosegear I guess. Not an attempt to reverse out?
Said aircraft is now sitting in the Multiflight hangar. I'm told it has been impounded, by whom and on whose authority I don't know. A new nosewheel and mainwheel arrived for it today from Tenerife. I expect the aircraft will be at LBA for a few more days yet. Wonder who'll get the job of reparing it ??
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leezyjet as you obviously have no idea about the standard procedure in these cases, it would be common courtesy not to be condescending about the actions of the aircrew involved.
For scared pax, a very short amount of time will seem like "ages". That doesn't mean anything.
What would you rather see happening? A cockpit crew yakking on the PA as soon as they have come to a standstill, or a cickpit crew working through the appropriate emergency checklists in order to avoid even bigger problems and to ascertain the actual state of the aircraft?
You should remember that you are on a professional pilot's website and stop teaching your granny to suck eggs.
For scared pax, a very short amount of time will seem like "ages". That doesn't mean anything.
What would you rather see happening? A cockpit crew yakking on the PA as soon as they have come to a standstill, or a cickpit crew working through the appropriate emergency checklists in order to avoid even bigger problems and to ascertain the actual state of the aircraft?
Remember too that most of those people that were onboard only fly maybe a handful of time a year, so what might not seem like a big deal to someone who flys for a living sure is to them.
Nice-but-dim
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rural Yorkshire
Posts: 636
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Falps mate - I'm sorry but on a really rare occasion I disagree with you. I don't think leezyjet was being condescending in the slightest (although R&N perhaps a delicate place to broach his thoughts). As you know, I'm a relatively infrequent traveller and if I was involved in an incident of this nature, a brief comment from the flight deck along the lines of 'hey, they laid a touch too little tarmac - we'll stay here for a while whilst they bring the stairs right over' might just have lightened the situation for a bunch of people who only fly once or twice a year.
I witnessed the incident - it was not at all dramatic (from the ground anyway)and really is a bit of a storm in a teacup. Yes procedures are there to be followed and the RT activity at the time showed all involved (FD, fire and tower ATC) were calmly dealing with the situation.
x
I witnessed the incident - it was not at all dramatic (from the ground anyway)and really is a bit of a storm in a teacup. Yes procedures are there to be followed and the RT activity at the time showed all involved (FD, fire and tower ATC) were calmly dealing with the situation.
x
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hunched over a keyboard
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nokia
No point using the escape chutes unless remaining on board would present a hazard.
With no fire risk apparent then staying on board and exiting via normal steps amkes more sense.
People get hurt, often quite badly, going down chutes so there is no point putting the pax at risk on the bouncy castle.
I suspect that the flaps were retracted prior to engine shutdown (quite possibly via the normal after landing checklist procedure)
With no fire risk apparent then staying on board and exiting via normal steps amkes more sense.
People get hurt, often quite badly, going down chutes so there is no point putting the pax at risk on the bouncy castle.
I suspect that the flaps were retracted prior to engine shutdown (quite possibly via the normal after landing checklist procedure)
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you timmcat, and i am a professional pilot for 20 years. A short PA to the passengers to sit tight, all is ok and please follow the cabin crew instructions is all it would take to calm the cabin and the cabin crew down. Its part of our job. And anyway what emergency checkists are you talking about flappy? I haven't seen one for runway overrunn. Just the after landers and shut down. Get the co to talk to atc while i have a quick word with the walk on freight. 30 seconds on the pa and then back to business. Customer care and all that PC stuff
How many PAs do we ever hear from the cockpit these days. Few if any, partiucularly from those in the middle and far east.
BTW flappy, i notice that your profile says chief wagon dragon. Please tell me that you're not cabin crew with a post like that. Emergency check lists? please tell me which ones so i can look them up. The evac wouldn't be right and no ecam would show. I've been on the bus for nearly a decade and i have yet to find a runway overrun.
If you want the real airbus answer, the capt should have said "crew at stations" once the aircraft had stopped with park brake on, then once the dust had settled gone for the shutdown checklist followed by " passengers and cabin crew please remain seated" and maybe starting the APU.etc etc. Thats 2 PAs that should have been made within the first minute or two max. Just my 2 bobs worth.
How many PAs do we ever hear from the cockpit these days. Few if any, partiucularly from those in the middle and far east.
BTW flappy, i notice that your profile says chief wagon dragon. Please tell me that you're not cabin crew with a post like that. Emergency check lists? please tell me which ones so i can look them up. The evac wouldn't be right and no ecam would show. I've been on the bus for nearly a decade and i have yet to find a runway overrun.
If you want the real airbus answer, the capt should have said "crew at stations" once the aircraft had stopped with park brake on, then once the dust had settled gone for the shutdown checklist followed by " passengers and cabin crew please remain seated" and maybe starting the APU.etc etc. Thats 2 PAs that should have been made within the first minute or two max. Just my 2 bobs worth.
Last edited by ia1166; 22nd May 2005 at 02:34.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that Jordan Aviation were banned by the French CAA (DGAC) from flying into France some time ago because of safety concerns. Why is it that an operator is banned in one or more EU countries, yet can quite happily continue to operate into others ?
A similar anomaly is Turkish carrier Onur Air. I believe they are due to operate one or more charters to the Champions League final in Istanbul next week. Again, there are safety issues and Onur Air are currently banned from Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy and Switzerland. Funny then, that the UK CAA considers them fit to operate these flights from the UK. I thought under JAR all EU states should use the same criteria when it comes to air safety.
Anybody ?
CG
A similar anomaly is Turkish carrier Onur Air. I believe they are due to operate one or more charters to the Champions League final in Istanbul next week. Again, there are safety issues and Onur Air are currently banned from Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy and Switzerland. Funny then, that the UK CAA considers them fit to operate these flights from the UK. I thought under JAR all EU states should use the same criteria when it comes to air safety.
Anybody ?
CG
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Heart of Darkness
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't quote specifics but many airlines based in 3rd world countries are prevented from flying to countries that operate to ICAO standards... I believe that the current number is 15 or thereabouts. The ban is not directed specifically at the airline, it's more to do with the fact that those countries do not have any adequate proceedure in place for overseeing the operations of airlines based in the country.... ie. no adequately functioning equivilant of our CAA or FAA. The list is, I think, available on an ICAO web-site.
The ban however is not compulsory and an individual EEC state can choose to ignore it, Belgium for eg. allows the DR Congo airline Hewa Bora to operate their pax carrying Tri-Star into Brussels.
In addition to the above countries there are a number of airlines which through some incident/accident or have been banned specifically from an EEC state....again it's up to the other EEC countries to choose for themselves whether they allow that operator access to their airports.
The ban however is not compulsory and an individual EEC state can choose to ignore it, Belgium for eg. allows the DR Congo airline Hewa Bora to operate their pax carrying Tri-Star into Brussels.
In addition to the above countries there are a number of airlines which through some incident/accident or have been banned specifically from an EEC state....again it's up to the other EEC countries to choose for themselves whether they allow that operator access to their airports.
think about this.... i've seen the skidmarks at the end of 14, and if you ask me they did a good job, assuming there were really braking problems with the aircraft, by steering off to the side of 14 and onto level ground. if they continued straight, off the end and down the slope/into the lights etc, there could have easily been fatalities involved and not just a new nosewheel......
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: somewhere in the EU
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
charterguy
for your info Onur is NOT banned in Italy, however ENAC (the Italian CAA) is close monitoring them ...
For sure I believe that there should be only one safety policy to be adopted and used by all CAAs, in the EU at the minimum!
Again, there are safety issues and Onur Air are currently banned from Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy and Switzerland
For sure I believe that there should be only one safety policy to be adopted and used by all CAAs, in the EU at the minimum!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With the aircraft still having a Jordanian registration is it fair to assume that the aircraft was still wet leased or even damp leased? With Jordan not being a JAA member and not in the EU then having a dry lease with a JY reg might be quite difficult?
