Journalist takes “8 inch” knife aboard BA flight
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I haven't read through all the posts here, so I'm not sure if the following point has been brought up:
What if on board that flight an actual hijacking DID occur? Can you imagine the consequences for this reporter (and later his family) when through the later investigation the (innocent?) knife was discovered? Do reporters think of that possibility? If he got through, then possibly a REAL terrorist did, too.... so, in my mind, a reporter pulling such tricks is just plain stupid! (though I must agree, discovering the loop holes in security is important... but please leave it to those paid to do that!.... my opinion)
Westy
What if on board that flight an actual hijacking DID occur? Can you imagine the consequences for this reporter (and later his family) when through the later investigation the (innocent?) knife was discovered? Do reporters think of that possibility? If he got through, then possibly a REAL terrorist did, too.... so, in my mind, a reporter pulling such tricks is just plain stupid! (though I must agree, discovering the loop holes in security is important... but please leave it to those paid to do that!.... my opinion)
Westy
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Having added such journalists to my list of post-revolution lamp-post decorations, along with solicitors, insurance executives and Chavs, I have to get my two-pence worth in !!!!
Sec.1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (and subsequent related legislation) makes it an offence:
"to have an offensive weapon whilst in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. Offensive weapons can be articles made or adapted for causing injury, OR other articles intended to be used for such purposes."
If you have the weapon on your person without lawful authority or reasonable excuse then you have committed a crime punishable on conviction on indictment by a maximum 4 years imprisonment or a Level 5 fine. The question arises whether the jury would consider his actions to be with lawful authority or reasonable excuse - the former is well and truly out of the window and personally I would not be swayed by his journalistic privilege - exactly the same could probably have been achieved with a carboard cut-out wrapped in tin foil. Why do it in the first place? - as soon as he was through security into the departure lounge that should have been enough, point proved. But to go on to the aircraft itself, thereby creating a real risk; unnecessary, and probably driven by financial and self-ego reasons.
So the question is raised - why hasn't he been arrested, charged, tried and possibly convicted? If not by the police, then privately by the airline or airport - you can, in this country, bring a private criminal prosecution. That may make them think twice.
Or, on the flip side of the argument, am I completely wrong and has he really performed a public service?
Sec.1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (and subsequent related legislation) makes it an offence:
"to have an offensive weapon whilst in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. Offensive weapons can be articles made or adapted for causing injury, OR other articles intended to be used for such purposes."
If you have the weapon on your person without lawful authority or reasonable excuse then you have committed a crime punishable on conviction on indictment by a maximum 4 years imprisonment or a Level 5 fine. The question arises whether the jury would consider his actions to be with lawful authority or reasonable excuse - the former is well and truly out of the window and personally I would not be swayed by his journalistic privilege - exactly the same could probably have been achieved with a carboard cut-out wrapped in tin foil. Why do it in the first place? - as soon as he was through security into the departure lounge that should have been enough, point proved. But to go on to the aircraft itself, thereby creating a real risk; unnecessary, and probably driven by financial and self-ego reasons.
So the question is raised - why hasn't he been arrested, charged, tried and possibly convicted? If not by the police, then privately by the airline or airport - you can, in this country, bring a private criminal prosecution. That may make them think twice.
Or, on the flip side of the argument, am I completely wrong and has he really performed a public service?
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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So the question is raised - why hasn't he been arrested, charged, tried and possibly convicted? If not by the police, then privately by the airline or airport - you can, in this country, bring a private criminal prosecution.
So, why don't you take out a private prosecution 2close if you're so distraught about it? Better to not put into print something that makes you appear foolish as it has a habit of proving to everyone else that you really are!
Are you going to prosecute everyone who manages to slip through 'security' with anything that can be used as a weapon? How about a steel ball-point pen? Maybe you should arrest every off-duty pilot who goes through with sharp, pointy wings attached to their jackets?
This is the 'professional pilots' rumour network... so why are so many hysterical hangers-on chipping in with their unenlightened drivel? I'm off to start my own website where the posters at least have to pass an IQ test and show some basic understanding of aviation.
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Firstly, Cargo Boy, I am not hysterical nor distraught. If anything is, it's your vociferous response.
Secondly, although I admit the wording could have been a bit better it was just an open question, designed to encourage debate, not a demand by myself to actually prosecute. I think you'll find reading back through the whole thread that there are plenty of professionals out there who feel quite strongly about this man's stupidity. But you've made your own point on such matters adbundantly clear - I suppose you feel because he's a journo, not only is he allowed to flount the law in a blatantly irresponsible manner but he's also permitted to broadcast the fact to all, qualifying it in terms of public interest. I wonder how many others would have been allowed to get away with it.
Thirdly, pens and silver wings!!! For Gods sake, be serious. Pens are not normally weapons nor are they ever usually intended to be weapons and I would never suggest such. Have you seen what a rolled up newspaper can do to someone - not pretty. So what then, ban newspapers, I think not. But the fact remains, this was not a pen, a set of wings nor was it the Daily Blah - it was a knife!!!
Lastly, no I am not a lawyer but I am qualified and experienced in criminal law as well as Health & Safety - these are the points under discussion, not the finer points of flying but public safety.
BTW, what is your IQ? - mine was last measured at 138, not that it's got anything to do with the subject.
Secondly, although I admit the wording could have been a bit better it was just an open question, designed to encourage debate, not a demand by myself to actually prosecute. I think you'll find reading back through the whole thread that there are plenty of professionals out there who feel quite strongly about this man's stupidity. But you've made your own point on such matters adbundantly clear - I suppose you feel because he's a journo, not only is he allowed to flount the law in a blatantly irresponsible manner but he's also permitted to broadcast the fact to all, qualifying it in terms of public interest. I wonder how many others would have been allowed to get away with it.
Thirdly, pens and silver wings!!! For Gods sake, be serious. Pens are not normally weapons nor are they ever usually intended to be weapons and I would never suggest such. Have you seen what a rolled up newspaper can do to someone - not pretty. So what then, ban newspapers, I think not. But the fact remains, this was not a pen, a set of wings nor was it the Daily Blah - it was a knife!!!
Lastly, no I am not a lawyer but I am qualified and experienced in criminal law as well as Health & Safety - these are the points under discussion, not the finer points of flying but public safety.
BTW, what is your IQ? - mine was last measured at 138, not that it's got anything to do with the subject.
Last edited by 2close; 25th Jul 2004 at 14:36.
I can't believe that we actually have someone on this forum flaunting their IQ.
I have known many people in my long career in aviation who have boasted of being members of MENSA and of having very high IQs.
Just about every one of them scored close to ZERO when it came to common sense and how to get out of trouble when your a*se was on fire.
If you want some advice from someone who has been in this game for close to half a century then keep very quiet about the fact that you have a high IQ. It is of no importance to anyone else but you.
Otherwise, everyone else will know who to blame when things go to ratsh*t!
I have known many people in my long career in aviation who have boasted of being members of MENSA and of having very high IQs.
Just about every one of them scored close to ZERO when it came to common sense and how to get out of trouble when your a*se was on fire.
If you want some advice from someone who has been in this game for close to half a century then keep very quiet about the fact that you have a high IQ. It is of no importance to anyone else but you.
Otherwise, everyone else will know who to blame when things go to ratsh*t!
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Satis said:
I've been flying aircraft out of Glasgow airport for five years plus. I highlighted a very obvious security flaw to the BAA security people and after being shouted at by the staff on the scene, I was given a four-letter suggestion to go and do something else by their manager.
I wrote to the police at Glasgow who said they agreed, but had no jurisdiction inside the terminal - external security only - and suggested I make my points to the head of BAA security. Which I did. Two no-responses later, I wrote to and emailed the overall manager of BAA. Nothing. Not even a 'we have looked at your suggestions/opinions and believe they are wrong because....' kind of response.
You can still smuggle explosives, weapons, ammunition - in fact, whatever you like, through Glasgow airport, because the BAA security muppets don't want any opinion other than their own to be heard. The flaw is still there. And it's not a 'down the sewers, burn through the security grate, crack the combination lock, James Bond kind of flaw...' - it's a very real, obvious and still present flaw in the current screening process. If I can see it, someone else can.
So... why bother telling BAA... they couldn't give a toss.
if anyone is aware of a security short coming, they must make the relavent authorities aware as soon as possible.
I wrote to the police at Glasgow who said they agreed, but had no jurisdiction inside the terminal - external security only - and suggested I make my points to the head of BAA security. Which I did. Two no-responses later, I wrote to and emailed the overall manager of BAA. Nothing. Not even a 'we have looked at your suggestions/opinions and believe they are wrong because....' kind of response.
You can still smuggle explosives, weapons, ammunition - in fact, whatever you like, through Glasgow airport, because the BAA security muppets don't want any opinion other than their own to be heard. The flaw is still there. And it's not a 'down the sewers, burn through the security grate, crack the combination lock, James Bond kind of flaw...' - it's a very real, obvious and still present flaw in the current screening process. If I can see it, someone else can.
So... why bother telling BAA... they couldn't give a toss.
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I can't believe that we actually have someone on this forum flaunting their IQ.
Not flaunting my IQ, I really couldn't care less what it is and I would never have brought the subject up if it hadn't been for an accusation that I would be unable to pass an IQ test.
FWIW, and to momentarily digress from the thread subject completely, I'm with you 100% on IQ tests and their applicability to ability. I don't think they give any real indication of a person's skillbase with other types of tasks and yes, it has no relation to common sense or an ability to cope with a high stress situation.
Back to the subject, El Desperado brings up some very interesting points here. And the words I see in flashing lights are APATHY, COMPLACENCY and what I call 'The Ostrich Syndrome' - hide your head in the sand and it won't touch us!!
So, where does the fault lie and how does the industry combat these issues in an effective manner?
No opinions there, just a totally open question? And I am genuinely interested in what professional aviators think.
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Whats an IQ?
Whats the problem with including race in profiling, scared we might upset them.
If a certain ethnic group form the majority of the threat then its right to target them. As for the normal citizens in these groups, well they have the ability to engender trust from the rest of society by disowning the extremists, or at least their agenda. A thing many seem reluctant to do.
When the IRA were paramount,most of the suspects were irish and targeted accordingly, no one seemed too bothered at the time especially the majority of Irish.
The current threat is from from a certain religous and ethnic based grouping, you do the math. Eliminate the threat and we can start to repair the damage.
Whats the problem with including race in profiling, scared we might upset them.
If a certain ethnic group form the majority of the threat then its right to target them. As for the normal citizens in these groups, well they have the ability to engender trust from the rest of society by disowning the extremists, or at least their agenda. A thing many seem reluctant to do.
When the IRA were paramount,most of the suspects were irish and targeted accordingly, no one seemed too bothered at the time especially the majority of Irish.
The current threat is from from a certain religous and ethnic based grouping, you do the math. Eliminate the threat and we can start to repair the damage.
