Journalist takes “8 inch” knife aboard BA flight
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The 'x-ray machine that sees through clothing' is already working, albeit on trial basis, although I'm told that the technology is well established in the medical world. As mentioned before, there are problems with regard to the somewhat revealing nature of the images delivered by these cameras. As a result, at least two manufacturers are launching versions which - while using exactly the same technology- only show the screener the outline of the person being screened. If and when a 'suspicious' object is detected by the camera, it simply superimposes the object over the outline of the individual, so that the security staff can see exactly where they need to check. Recent studies of passenger opinion at selected UK airports report 99% of people would prefer to go through the camera screening process than undergo the present physical search, so I guess the camera is the way ahead..
As for profiling, its chances of stopping the determined terrorist is virtually nil. While avioding the 'traps' set by profiling procedures may be time consuming for the bad guys, the overall value of profiling is little defence against an intelligent, determined terrorist.
As for profiling, its chances of stopping the determined terrorist is virtually nil. While avioding the 'traps' set by profiling procedures may be time consuming for the bad guys, the overall value of profiling is little defence against an intelligent, determined terrorist.
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Why dont they prosecute these journos for taking an illegal weapon on board?
If the journos are genuinely trying to highlight weaknesses for the sake of the travelling public, then they should just point this out descretely to the airline/airport authorities/security etc. Highlighting weaknesses to public and potential terrorists serves no constructive purpose.
If no corrective action is taken after they have told the necessary authorities, then this is the time to possibly make the public aware, but not go into any detail of how the system was flawed.
If the journos are genuinely trying to highlight weaknesses for the sake of the travelling public, then they should just point this out descretely to the airline/airport authorities/security etc. Highlighting weaknesses to public and potential terrorists serves no constructive purpose.
If no corrective action is taken after they have told the necessary authorities, then this is the time to possibly make the public aware, but not go into any detail of how the system was flawed.
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The journalistic people who constantly try to prove flaws in the system are wan**rs.
Just imagine a picture published in the papers with the airoplane on the the apron with the captain hanging out of his window weilding the axe from the cockpit and the f/o hanging outside of his window with a pair of nail clippers. "Oh my god how did those nail clippers get on th a/c". Not trying to be funny, but as said earlier it is the intent to use them. What if the captain axed the f/o?. I agree security in our business is at the top and it should be left to the professionals to run it. If there are flaws then these should be highlighted privately. If we have security problems we should address, then it should be done before the journalists do. There are reporting procedures (confidential) in force that we should all use more often if you have any doubts. I think you professionals know what I mean.
Just imagine a picture published in the papers with the airoplane on the the apron with the captain hanging out of his window weilding the axe from the cockpit and the f/o hanging outside of his window with a pair of nail clippers. "Oh my god how did those nail clippers get on th a/c". Not trying to be funny, but as said earlier it is the intent to use them. What if the captain axed the f/o?. I agree security in our business is at the top and it should be left to the professionals to run it. If there are flaws then these should be highlighted privately. If we have security problems we should address, then it should be done before the journalists do. There are reporting procedures (confidential) in force that we should all use more often if you have any doubts. I think you professionals know what I mean.
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Digressing a tad, but heard on BBC Radio 2 the other day about a "prank" some office colleagues played on their manager one day.
He was due to be flying on business somewhere nice and was crowing about it. They borrowed his briefcase/handbaggage whilst he was out of the office and placed in it a pistol shape cut out of heavy duty aluminium foil.
When the manager went to go through security seemingly he was somewhat surprised with the reaction he received.
He was due to be flying on business somewhere nice and was crowing about it. They borrowed his briefcase/handbaggage whilst he was out of the office and placed in it a pistol shape cut out of heavy duty aluminium foil.
When the manager went to go through security seemingly he was somewhat surprised with the reaction he received.
Ohcirrej
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That's just as bloody stupid as these media tossers.
One of these days though, with all these journos trying the same trick, somebody is going to get hurt...........hopefully them.
One of these days though, with all these journos trying the same trick, somebody is going to get hurt...........hopefully them.
Trent900 - THINK BIG
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"I hope for all our sakes, BA put the silly ar$e on the blacklist."
Big Hilly,
You wrote
"I hope for all our sakes, BA put the silly ar$e on the blacklist."
Why stop there with just BA? BAA, the security services, et al should have this chap on their respective blacklists - possibly as a sensationalist trouble maker and at best a possible future potential hazard to all flights to and from the UK.
Why should a journalist, under such apparent circumstances be deemed any better than somebody that joked about carrying bombs at a check-in counter etc. and was then typically detained and even barred from flying? Is that really worthy of publishing the allegedly self-confessed, self-incriminating evidence in a tabloid to highlight whatever point was intended?
From the thread above, a point that is sadly too possible is if this stunt had gone wrong and the journalist had caused a real panic.
So does that make him a travel hero in the eyes of the media or just an additional unnecessary threat and safety hazard to other passengers and greater public?
EG – 7500 –
You wrote
"I hope for all our sakes, BA put the silly ar$e on the blacklist."
Why stop there with just BA? BAA, the security services, et al should have this chap on their respective blacklists - possibly as a sensationalist trouble maker and at best a possible future potential hazard to all flights to and from the UK.
Why should a journalist, under such apparent circumstances be deemed any better than somebody that joked about carrying bombs at a check-in counter etc. and was then typically detained and even barred from flying? Is that really worthy of publishing the allegedly self-confessed, self-incriminating evidence in a tabloid to highlight whatever point was intended?
From the thread above, a point that is sadly too possible is if this stunt had gone wrong and the journalist had caused a real panic.
So does that make him a travel hero in the eyes of the media or just an additional unnecessary threat and safety hazard to other passengers and greater public?
EG – 7500 –
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I absolutely agree that the journo involved should be banned from all commercial flights. Is it really sensible to carry on a deadly weapon and pose for a picture with it while in clear view of other passengers?!?
I do think that security recently is being proved to be not up to par shall we say. My Father has just returned from a lengthy photographic trip in Australia, during which he flew on numerous flights with major carriers. When he got home he unpacked his photographic bag which was carried as hand luggage on every flight. He found a swiss army knife in the bottom of it (mistakenly left there). Surely by the shear number of flights he had been on you would have thought that someone would have picked it up on their X-Ray machines?!? Or is it a case of laziness.. the bag was full of lenses, filters, etc.. which are all metallic and various shapes and sizes so how out of the ordinary is a swiss army knife shaped object? It was also I agree equally irresponsible of him to not know it was in his bag!
Something does need done, there is no doubt about it, but as was previously mentioned, security will never be 100% infallible.
Jimmydacraw.
I do think that security recently is being proved to be not up to par shall we say. My Father has just returned from a lengthy photographic trip in Australia, during which he flew on numerous flights with major carriers. When he got home he unpacked his photographic bag which was carried as hand luggage on every flight. He found a swiss army knife in the bottom of it (mistakenly left there). Surely by the shear number of flights he had been on you would have thought that someone would have picked it up on their X-Ray machines?!? Or is it a case of laziness.. the bag was full of lenses, filters, etc.. which are all metallic and various shapes and sizes so how out of the ordinary is a swiss army knife shaped object? It was also I agree equally irresponsible of him to not know it was in his bag!
Something does need done, there is no doubt about it, but as was previously mentioned, security will never be 100% infallible.
Jimmydacraw.
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It would appear that the intention of this person to high light a flaw in a Middle East airport security system has been overwhelmed by the journalistic bashing that exists within this forum.
At least here in KC the results of his action has prompted BA to liase with the DGCA to ensure that all security procedures carried out are of the highest standard.
But alas as I passed through the airport last night and placed my bag on the x ray machine the operator was to busy chatting with his mate and did not even look at the machine.
Today's (July 10) Kuwait Times carried the article on the front page and mentioned that the list of the 123 miliants apparently given to the government by the US had not been investigated. The whole middle east region is a hot bed for terrorist groups. Most of the hijackers in 9/11 were KSA nationals
As for the comments on intent and the use of a weapon. It would be rather difficult to cut a few throats with a broken bottle the knife is a better implement
The comments on the locked cockpit door are interesting. What would you do if you could hear the screams of you female cabin crew having their throats cut? A moral dilemma maybe
At least here in KC the results of his action has prompted BA to liase with the DGCA to ensure that all security procedures carried out are of the highest standard.
But alas as I passed through the airport last night and placed my bag on the x ray machine the operator was to busy chatting with his mate and did not even look at the machine.
Today's (July 10) Kuwait Times carried the article on the front page and mentioned that the list of the 123 miliants apparently given to the government by the US had not been investigated. The whole middle east region is a hot bed for terrorist groups. Most of the hijackers in 9/11 were KSA nationals
As for the comments on intent and the use of a weapon. It would be rather difficult to cut a few throats with a broken bottle the knife is a better implement
The comments on the locked cockpit door are interesting. What would you do if you could hear the screams of you female cabin crew having their throats cut? A moral dilemma maybe
Peoples' Champion!
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Engineer,
As harsh as it may seem, it's no moral dilemma whatsoever. I doubt that there is a pilot on these boards who would open the door in those circumstances. . . .
BH
As harsh as it may seem, it's no moral dilemma whatsoever. I doubt that there is a pilot on these boards who would open the door in those circumstances. . . .
BH
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The reason for the door comment was to ensure that flight deck crews are under no delusions that its implementation was to provide you with personal safety. It was fitted to protect the safety of the outside population. Like the cabin crew you are expendable
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If you're all so upset at how "rubbish" journolists are, why don't you have a change of career and try and put it right by doing the job yourself?
And, no I'm not a journo, before anyone makes the obviously brain-not-engaged comment.
And, no I'm not a journo, before anyone makes the obviously brain-not-engaged comment.
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If you are aware of a flaw in security, you should highlight it in the appropriate way.
Use the authorites to sponsor the 'attempted breach' and let them take action.
This was done for a story, pure and simple, and - with NO safeguards in place - had the potential of becoming disastrous had there been a 'baddie' sitting nearby.
This type of publicity seeking action is irresponsible at best and downright dangerous at worst.
If a pilot had done it to highlight a problem, he would have been sacked from his company and villified in the media.
Use the authorites to sponsor the 'attempted breach' and let them take action.
This was done for a story, pure and simple, and - with NO safeguards in place - had the potential of becoming disastrous had there been a 'baddie' sitting nearby.
This type of publicity seeking action is irresponsible at best and downright dangerous at worst.
If a pilot had done it to highlight a problem, he would have been sacked from his company and villified in the media.
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On a recent flight out of Italy my wife and I were stopped as we were going through x-ray. On opening our hand luggage for inspection we found we had left all our babies eating implements in there (eg knife fork and spoon) rather than just the spoon needed on the flight.
After some discussion the staff asked which airline we were flying with. We told them and they said "That's ok then" and let us continue with all our cutlery onto the plane.
Why would the airline make such a difference?
After some discussion the staff asked which airline we were flying with. We told them and they said "That's ok then" and let us continue with all our cutlery onto the plane.
Why would the airline make such a difference?
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If you are aware of a flaw in security, you should highlight it in the appropriate way
Just before you reach immigration a baggage x-ray machine has been installed along with a walk through detector.
The good of the people is the chief law
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Irresponsible? - yes. A lesson to be learned? - maybe again yes.
I hope that our security doesn't solely depend on journos out to make a story. Ideally all airports would be subject to random checks by plain clothed "testers" with unauthorised objects in their baggage. If the object is detected, a warrant card is shown and all is well. If it isn't, then training / better equipment / longer rest breaks etc may be needed. A big bonus might be paid to security staff based on results: I don't think I could summon up the required concentration for hours on end, what with whinging kids, uncooperative adults and the insidious pressure to keep the queue flowing.
If this kind of check is done already, then maybe the details shouldn't be aired in a public forum, but leaving the checking to journos would be a bad idea - apart from anything else they are notoriously lazy. (That'll rattle their cages lads!).
BTW Hong Kong airport ALWAYS pick up on any tins in my carry-on, and check that it isn't lighter gas.
I hope that our security doesn't solely depend on journos out to make a story. Ideally all airports would be subject to random checks by plain clothed "testers" with unauthorised objects in their baggage. If the object is detected, a warrant card is shown and all is well. If it isn't, then training / better equipment / longer rest breaks etc may be needed. A big bonus might be paid to security staff based on results: I don't think I could summon up the required concentration for hours on end, what with whinging kids, uncooperative adults and the insidious pressure to keep the queue flowing.
If this kind of check is done already, then maybe the details shouldn't be aired in a public forum, but leaving the checking to journos would be a bad idea - apart from anything else they are notoriously lazy. (That'll rattle their cages lads!).
BTW Hong Kong airport ALWAYS pick up on any tins in my carry-on, and check that it isn't lighter gas.