View Poll Results: How desirable is the 'job' (jet airline pilot) these days?
Only if you're on long haul
135
11.23%
Not very. We're just 'drivers' locked in our cockpits
436
36.27%
It is still glamorous... or at least the idea of it is
494
41.10%
Have you seen my roster? Zzzz...
165
13.73%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1202. This poll is closed
How desirable is the 'job' (jet airline pilot) these days?
aka Capt PPRuNe
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How desirable is the 'job' (jet airline pilot) these days?
With all the changes to the working lifestyle since 9/11, does the idea of an airline pilots job still hold the same appeal as it used to?
The poll is not meant to be scientific and is open to anyone with an opinion, whether they are current airline pilots, retired airline pilots, wannabe airline pilots or just someone who dreams about being an airline pilot.
Those who don't have experience will obviously be basing their choices on what they have read here in PPRuNe. Others will be basing their choices on their own experience and whether they are flying short, medium or long haul, pax or freight.
There will no doubt be some who are flying short haul and fancy the idea of long haul and vice versa. Also, there will be those working for a major airline with all the associated benefits and others working for smaller outfits with fewer or no benefits.
Feel free to express your thoughts about the 'job', whether you are already in it, wannabe in it or just like the idea of it. Please state which of the above categories you fall into.
Whilst there are many other professional pilot categories, this poll is aimed at the airline pilot and the job of crewing multi engined jet aircraft. Apologies to those who may not fly those types but it is purely an exercise in trying to assess the 'desirability' of the job at that level.
Abuse and derogatory comments will not be tolerated. So, those of you of a condescending or aggressive attitude had better remember that your comments may be a waste of time if they are deleted.
The poll is not meant to be scientific and is open to anyone with an opinion, whether they are current airline pilots, retired airline pilots, wannabe airline pilots or just someone who dreams about being an airline pilot.
Those who don't have experience will obviously be basing their choices on what they have read here in PPRuNe. Others will be basing their choices on their own experience and whether they are flying short, medium or long haul, pax or freight.
There will no doubt be some who are flying short haul and fancy the idea of long haul and vice versa. Also, there will be those working for a major airline with all the associated benefits and others working for smaller outfits with fewer or no benefits.
Feel free to express your thoughts about the 'job', whether you are already in it, wannabe in it or just like the idea of it. Please state which of the above categories you fall into.
Whilst there are many other professional pilot categories, this poll is aimed at the airline pilot and the job of crewing multi engined jet aircraft. Apologies to those who may not fly those types but it is purely an exercise in trying to assess the 'desirability' of the job at that level.
Abuse and derogatory comments will not be tolerated. So, those of you of a condescending or aggressive attitude had better remember that your comments may be a waste of time if they are deleted.
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Dear Danny,
Your post has taken a long time coming! 20 yrs ago a bog standard charter Captain working for one of the bigger operators could command a salary of 55k plus allowances plus health ins travel conc. etc. all in return for a reasonably stable roster 500 to 650 hrs a yr mixture of long and short haul esp if you worked for Brit Mon AE etc. Generally quality of life was good. Now however the money is much the same in numbers terms it hasn't even kept up with RPI we all all work like dogs and the benifits package is virtually non existent. I ask all your contributors to remove their rose tinted spectacles and see what has really happened to their profession. The only people that think flying is "GLAMOUROUS" are the pilots themselves.Stamp on those specs boys and girls we have been shafted big style!
Your post has taken a long time coming! 20 yrs ago a bog standard charter Captain working for one of the bigger operators could command a salary of 55k plus allowances plus health ins travel conc. etc. all in return for a reasonably stable roster 500 to 650 hrs a yr mixture of long and short haul esp if you worked for Brit Mon AE etc. Generally quality of life was good. Now however the money is much the same in numbers terms it hasn't even kept up with RPI we all all work like dogs and the benifits package is virtually non existent. I ask all your contributors to remove their rose tinted spectacles and see what has really happened to their profession. The only people that think flying is "GLAMOUROUS" are the pilots themselves.Stamp on those specs boys and girls we have been shafted big style!
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Desirable..........
For wannabes the answer must be a great big VERY.
For the ones who have been flying a long time and have seen a drop in the "life style" maybe not. But how has their life style changed since they started flying. Are they still "young" and single or have they more family ties and now have a very much changed out look on life.
My military flying was very desirable, but the thrill can dull. Maybe the same can be said for airline flying.
For the ones who have been flying a long time and have seen a drop in the "life style" maybe not. But how has their life style changed since they started flying. Are they still "young" and single or have they more family ties and now have a very much changed out look on life.
My military flying was very desirable, but the thrill can dull. Maybe the same can be said for airline flying.
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we just refer to them as drivers now. more and more of their authority (that they used to possess) has been removed.
ops decide what they should do (operationally), engineers via hf/mobiles advise what to do to get it fixed, pilot management
can verify / dispute their decisions, flight support determine route/levels/fuel to be loaded.
the good old days are long gone.
ops decide what they should do (operationally), engineers via hf/mobiles advise what to do to get it fixed, pilot management
can verify / dispute their decisions, flight support determine route/levels/fuel to be loaded.
the good old days are long gone.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Flying great big aircraft awesome fun, through the night, to major time zone changes, stuck in a tube for 15hrs, straight to bed because your'e knackered, 27hrs later back in the tube 15hrs, home for 2 days totally knackered, off in the other direction for 15hrs, same heavily fat fortified aircraft food to get some taste out of it, sim very 6 months on 3 aircraft types, only a job for the next 6 months again, doctors complaining I'm not looking like superman any more, the pay and conditions constantly being pushed down and erroded.......it goes on.
Tell your wife to sit on the loo in the bathroom from dinnertime to lunchtime the next day, as it gets dark read a paper with a torch light only, put the hair dryer on outside the bathroom door for the noise effect, only get up out of your seat for 5 mins every 3 hrs or so and talk to hardly anyone else for the 15 hrs, except of course to a foreign controller who you cannot understand or Bombay on HF, live out of the suitcase when she gets to the bedroom and do it all over again the following night. She will admit you are lucky to have such a glamorous job no doubt.
Seacrest out!!
I'd do it for free, thats the way it's going anyway!!
Tell your wife to sit on the loo in the bathroom from dinnertime to lunchtime the next day, as it gets dark read a paper with a torch light only, put the hair dryer on outside the bathroom door for the noise effect, only get up out of your seat for 5 mins every 3 hrs or so and talk to hardly anyone else for the 15 hrs, except of course to a foreign controller who you cannot understand or Bombay on HF, live out of the suitcase when she gets to the bedroom and do it all over again the following night. She will admit you are lucky to have such a glamorous job no doubt.
Seacrest out!!
I'd do it for free, thats the way it's going anyway!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Right On !!!
Hey Jack you summed up my life to the tee. We must work for the same outfit..... if not..... I suppose the grass isn't greener on your side either!
I'll just go n have another beer...hic..
HSD
I'll just go n have another beer...hic..
HSD
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This job must be very desirable.
People seem keen (even proud!) to do it for less, and less. In fact people are prepared to pay through the nose, to be trained to do it.
As a group we are our own worst enemies. Eager to increase our own company's market share, even though it may be at the expense of those whose salaries, and lifestyle, are viewed (subjectively) as unsustainable!
Combine this with people's rabid eagerness to work longer than ever, to earn a pension, rather than fighting for improved pension provision!!
It's not rocket science to see where this leads. However cheap you sell yourself, there is always someone else willing to sell themselves a little cheaper! Console yourselves that your hard work always serves to handsomely reward the Board!
As an additional issue, the 'enjoyability' of the job has fallen off a cliff since 2001. Now every man, and his dog, can interfere in all aspects of your life, in the interests of 'security!' (Even though nothing has made the job any safer!)
Flying an aeroplane CAN be fun. But expect to pay a heavy price in all other aspects of your life for the 'priviledge' of doing it.
Chances are, you'd be better rewarded as a plumber!
People seem keen (even proud!) to do it for less, and less. In fact people are prepared to pay through the nose, to be trained to do it.
As a group we are our own worst enemies. Eager to increase our own company's market share, even though it may be at the expense of those whose salaries, and lifestyle, are viewed (subjectively) as unsustainable!
Combine this with people's rabid eagerness to work longer than ever, to earn a pension, rather than fighting for improved pension provision!!
It's not rocket science to see where this leads. However cheap you sell yourself, there is always someone else willing to sell themselves a little cheaper! Console yourselves that your hard work always serves to handsomely reward the Board!
As an additional issue, the 'enjoyability' of the job has fallen off a cliff since 2001. Now every man, and his dog, can interfere in all aspects of your life, in the interests of 'security!' (Even though nothing has made the job any safer!)
Flying an aeroplane CAN be fun. But expect to pay a heavy price in all other aspects of your life for the 'priviledge' of doing it.
Chances are, you'd be better rewarded as a plumber!
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That poll is misleading and badly thought out.
It is defiantly a great way to earn a living. Varied work/trips (long and short), good people, reasonable money (need a rise though).
Would not like to work for Low cost though. They don't need a pension, their management will have killed them off through poor rostering and below par T+C's first!
It is defiantly a great way to earn a living. Varied work/trips (long and short), good people, reasonable money (need a rise though).
Would not like to work for Low cost though. They don't need a pension, their management will have killed them off through poor rostering and below par T+C's first!
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whatunion says, hours and hours of boredom punctuated by seconds of sheer terror.
that was always the saying but now we can add, even more boredom and more terror if you work for a budget airline!
that was always the saying but now we can add, even more boredom and more terror if you work for a budget airline!
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Well I dunno.
Altho I have never worked for so called low cost carriers, have several friends who do...specifically Southwest.
They certainly seem satisfied...good pay, nice rosters, a company who treats 'em quite well...sounds like a pilots' dream.
Perhaps it is.
'Course they have so called 'long haul' as well...nearly 5 hours coast to coast.
Not the 12+ that is more the norm in other carriers, time zones a plenty, shorter nightstops, downgraded hotels (in some cases)...but hey, still not a bad job at all.
After 38+ years, would I do it again?
You bet...a most satisfying way to make a living.
Altho I have never worked for so called low cost carriers, have several friends who do...specifically Southwest.
They certainly seem satisfied...good pay, nice rosters, a company who treats 'em quite well...sounds like a pilots' dream.
Perhaps it is.
'Course they have so called 'long haul' as well...nearly 5 hours coast to coast.
Not the 12+ that is more the norm in other carriers, time zones a plenty, shorter nightstops, downgraded hotels (in some cases)...but hey, still not a bad job at all.
After 38+ years, would I do it again?
You bet...a most satisfying way to make a living.
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I wanted to be a pilot from the age of 4 (30 years ago), but got glasses and then height. My notion though, was that you controlled this big thing; you hand flew it and could be as free as a bird soaring in the sky.
Now I know a bit more about it, I worry about the increased monitoring role. Not only from a safety point of view, but the job satisfaction perspective.
I would still love to have had the chance, but know that my view is still coloured by my youthful ideas of freedom, excitement, aerobatics and those little gold wings.
At least that's the view from my office...
Now I know a bit more about it, I worry about the increased monitoring role. Not only from a safety point of view, but the job satisfaction perspective.
I would still love to have had the chance, but know that my view is still coloured by my youthful ideas of freedom, excitement, aerobatics and those little gold wings.
At least that's the view from my office...
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Very desirable.
Terms & Conditions are not just getting poorer in the aviation industry...it is the way of the world.
Pilots still seem to be well paid, in comparison to other professionals (excluding our medical and legal friends!).
As a professional engineer, I earn less than any captain, and probably less than a lot of FOs. And my salary is by no means bad!
And when I get into work in the morning, the work that was causing me stress yesterday is still there. Monthly reports, budget figures, targets, performance figures, it never stops.
Give me a big shiny airplane, where I get to go home at night knowing that the day is truly gone, and that tomorrow might bring pressures, but at least today's won't come back!
...and every day, you get to enjoy bright summer sun (even in the middle of winter), see the world from above, and do something that you love.
Ok, I know that the grass is always greener, but as a PPLer who would love to be in your position, I think the life of a pilot is still desirable!
Terms & Conditions are not just getting poorer in the aviation industry...it is the way of the world.
Pilots still seem to be well paid, in comparison to other professionals (excluding our medical and legal friends!).
As a professional engineer, I earn less than any captain, and probably less than a lot of FOs. And my salary is by no means bad!
And when I get into work in the morning, the work that was causing me stress yesterday is still there. Monthly reports, budget figures, targets, performance figures, it never stops.
Give me a big shiny airplane, where I get to go home at night knowing that the day is truly gone, and that tomorrow might bring pressures, but at least today's won't come back!
...and every day, you get to enjoy bright summer sun (even in the middle of winter), see the world from above, and do something that you love.
Ok, I know that the grass is always greener, but as a PPLer who would love to be in your position, I think the life of a pilot is still desirable!
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SA
Welcome to the real world - that description could fit any number of different professions I could think of. Most people now work harder, longer with more stress for the same as they earn't several years ago - its called competition.
If the conditions were so bad nobody would do it - there is no shortage of highly qualified individuals entering the job market every year and aviation still has no problem attracting new entrants even with the competition from other careers.
Generally quality of life was good. Now however the money is much the same in numbers terms it hasn't even kept up with RPI we all all work like dogs and the benifits package is virtually non existent.
If the conditions were so bad nobody would do it - there is no shortage of highly qualified individuals entering the job market every year and aviation still has no problem attracting new entrants even with the competition from other careers.
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Have to say although 9/11 was a big nail in the coffin of the job the rot started to set in early 90's during/post the Gulf War...the 'new' contracts with much lower money, loss of acceptable quality of life and general job instability set in...it is very true that this general malaise has also affected many occupations particularly in the UK however there is little doubt I would have been financially/socially better off being a solicitor or an accountant for example (and without the £45K bill)
At £50K-£60K the current Captains' salaries equates (acceptably IMO) with an average senior accountant, solicitor, company MD etc. but obviously conditions and hours of working are very different...although that does not justify double that figure or more...
My own preference if I were still a pilot would be reduced workload for the same money and not increased money to continue existing workload...this would also be my management preference to implement as it is arguably the easiest to sustain and squeeze out of the budget...a few more thousand per pilot head spent on additional crews makes a big difference operationally at minimal cost burden
Overall I would say the job with all its' antisocial aspects is not worth the remuneration in the UK, however the current airline business models dont support a higher figure, Catch 22...and not a good investment for a self-sponsor
I did 2 years as an instructor and 5 years flying and walked away looking for a new career direction, job satisfaction and a return of my quality of life...and rather ironically ended up back in airline management
At £50K-£60K the current Captains' salaries equates (acceptably IMO) with an average senior accountant, solicitor, company MD etc. but obviously conditions and hours of working are very different...although that does not justify double that figure or more...
My own preference if I were still a pilot would be reduced workload for the same money and not increased money to continue existing workload...this would also be my management preference to implement as it is arguably the easiest to sustain and squeeze out of the budget...a few more thousand per pilot head spent on additional crews makes a big difference operationally at minimal cost burden
Overall I would say the job with all its' antisocial aspects is not worth the remuneration in the UK, however the current airline business models dont support a higher figure, Catch 22...and not a good investment for a self-sponsor
I did 2 years as an instructor and 5 years flying and walked away looking for a new career direction, job satisfaction and a return of my quality of life...and rather ironically ended up back in airline management
Last edited by Boss Raptor; 11th Jun 2004 at 16:51.
Life's too short for ironing
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Interesting poll. The mixture of opinions will be infinite.
I worked in the airlines for 7 years and generally enjoyed it, but wasn't sure I wanted to do this for the rest of my life. I knew I did not want to get caught up in the roller coaster, bored with the monotony and too drawn into salary/mortgage/expensive toys to pay for, etc, etc.
The opportunity came in spring 2001 and I moved west of Mull, am not allowed to earn a salary just now, but have a fantastic time volunteering for an aviation organisation, flying all sorts of varied trips for them on vintage and relatively modern aircraft. Sometimes I cannot believe how lucky I am. When the work permit does appear I will do my best to stick with this type of aviation rather than return to the airlines, assuming I have any choice in the matter
I have a friend who has done it the opposite way, bush flying all over Canada and now working for the airlines. She's already looking to move away from them in the next few years.
There is so much more to aviation than working for the airlines, great tho' that can be. I watched the post 9/11 fiasco from afar, sad to see what was happening and relieved not to be caught up in it.
I worked in the airlines for 7 years and generally enjoyed it, but wasn't sure I wanted to do this for the rest of my life. I knew I did not want to get caught up in the roller coaster, bored with the monotony and too drawn into salary/mortgage/expensive toys to pay for, etc, etc.
The opportunity came in spring 2001 and I moved west of Mull, am not allowed to earn a salary just now, but have a fantastic time volunteering for an aviation organisation, flying all sorts of varied trips for them on vintage and relatively modern aircraft. Sometimes I cannot believe how lucky I am. When the work permit does appear I will do my best to stick with this type of aviation rather than return to the airlines, assuming I have any choice in the matter
I have a friend who has done it the opposite way, bush flying all over Canada and now working for the airlines. She's already looking to move away from them in the next few years.
There is so much more to aviation than working for the airlines, great tho' that can be. I watched the post 9/11 fiasco from afar, sad to see what was happening and relieved not to be caught up in it.
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The pay and conditions may have been eroded over the past years, but the job still beats the pants off working in some daft office trying to sell snowballs to eskimos - or something equally pointless - and kidding yourself that it's important and fulfilling.
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Better than an office job and women love it. Mention your a pilot to the ladies and they always seem extremely interested and impressed. Mention your an accountant or doing some office job and well..
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Well you guys can flame me no problems but working for engineering is no bowl of cherries at the worlds favorite ( Yawn ),i want to make a corrections from within the fence as it were for BA.
Boss Raptor --- At £50K-£60K the current Captains' salaries equates (acceptably IMO) with an average senior accountant.
Well boss best of luck to them and this is not a bitter and twisted moan but at a top incrument ( that just occurs each year not performance related ) a BA shorthaul captain can earn £120K plus expenses and retire at 55,this was apparently due to benchmarking with other european carriers.....
As a poor lower than low engineer i can tell you sums like this are 4 years wages for me ( and that doesnt go near the expenses at £10/hr away from base ) the shorthaul captains are at the bottom of the fleet pay scales,if pilots wages arnt what they used to be then by C****t you were paid well before.
Boss Raptor --- At £50K-£60K the current Captains' salaries equates (acceptably IMO) with an average senior accountant.
Well boss best of luck to them and this is not a bitter and twisted moan but at a top incrument ( that just occurs each year not performance related ) a BA shorthaul captain can earn £120K plus expenses and retire at 55,this was apparently due to benchmarking with other european carriers.....
As a poor lower than low engineer i can tell you sums like this are 4 years wages for me ( and that doesnt go near the expenses at £10/hr away from base ) the shorthaul captains are at the bottom of the fleet pay scales,if pilots wages arnt what they used to be then by C****t you were paid well before.