The Arrogance Of Britannia 034A
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Arrogance Of Britannia 034A
Last night into ALC there was a Britannia 034A flight in the sequence to land.
We were ahead on an 18 miles final, an Iberia behind us and then the Britannia. When the controller asked him to slow down, his reaction was utter contempt and included a phrase such as "...if the Iberia could pedal faster" in a most unbelievably pompous manner. After this all his transmissions were accompanied by the most arrogant huff and heavy breathing of disapproval.
It was evident that he thought he should be able to make do without being controlled as he was incredibly morose and condescending.
The Iberia, like us was doing the published speeds on the approach plate, with inputs from the controller, this of course was most "inconvenient" to our friend as even when he got his landing clearance he sounded aloof and arrogant as he acknowledged it.
What a great shame he brought on other british operators, even on us LOCOs, we felt.
As it happens, luckily the controller didn't seem to have picked up on it, due to language limitations I guess. This however didn't stop US from feeling embarassed.
God only knows how his colleauge must have felt all day, having had to endure sitting next to this impossibly opinionated and immature, yet pompous hooray henry.
YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
We were ahead on an 18 miles final, an Iberia behind us and then the Britannia. When the controller asked him to slow down, his reaction was utter contempt and included a phrase such as "...if the Iberia could pedal faster" in a most unbelievably pompous manner. After this all his transmissions were accompanied by the most arrogant huff and heavy breathing of disapproval.
It was evident that he thought he should be able to make do without being controlled as he was incredibly morose and condescending.
The Iberia, like us was doing the published speeds on the approach plate, with inputs from the controller, this of course was most "inconvenient" to our friend as even when he got his landing clearance he sounded aloof and arrogant as he acknowledged it.
What a great shame he brought on other british operators, even on us LOCOs, we felt.
As it happens, luckily the controller didn't seem to have picked up on it, due to language limitations I guess. This however didn't stop US from feeling embarassed.
God only knows how his colleauge must have felt all day, having had to endure sitting next to this impossibly opinionated and immature, yet pompous hooray henry.
YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Yep, heard a similar one the other day in Tokyo's airspace. A Cathay whale was impatient to climb but was blocked and he got snippy about a Northwest plane (perhaps a 757) that was cruising Mach .78 in front of him. It was pretty choppy around Fuji headed southbound so maybe it was for turbulence. Or maybe it's just contract time again. Anyway, instead of asking directly, the Cathay pilot in a haughty imperial voice kept prodding the controller to find out why NW was cruising .78.
Northwest finally had enough and announced "listen buddy, if we want to cruise .78, we'll cruise .78". Cathay probably got a nice long view of a slow red tail well past Bulan...
Northwest finally had enough and announced "listen buddy, if we want to cruise .78, we'll cruise .78". Cathay probably got a nice long view of a slow red tail well past Bulan...
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As at trainer it is quite frustrating to see young trainees harassed by those who think they own the airspace. It seems to be an increasing problem.
We are all trying to do the same job whatever company we work for. Surely we have enough problems generated elsewhere without creating more for ourselves.
The " I've been here a hundred times brigade " need to grow up and show more respect for their fellow aviators.
We are all trying to do the same job whatever company we work for. Surely we have enough problems generated elsewhere without creating more for ourselves.
The " I've been here a hundred times brigade " need to grow up and show more respect for their fellow aviators.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Classified
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who the **** made him king?
Thats typical of the majority of Britannia of course, all up themselves. Common courtesy seems to be thing of the past.
Just because one flys for Britannia doesn't make them special, in my book.
Thats typical of the majority of Britannia of course, all up themselves. Common courtesy seems to be thing of the past.
Just because one flys for Britannia doesn't make them special, in my book.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stuck in the middle...
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Slightly off-topic, but the Cathay/NW incident described above reminds of a story from the early days of the jet age. Apparently, a BOAC Comet IV was cruising at a FL somewhat higher than a (faster) PAA 707.
A rather snooty English voice enquired of the PAA 707: "what are you doing DOWN there?"
Quick as a flash, the American pilot responded "mach 0.83, buddy!"
A rather snooty English voice enquired of the PAA 707: "what are you doing DOWN there?"
Quick as a flash, the American pilot responded "mach 0.83, buddy!"
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LGW
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems rather unfair to judge a whole airline by one event. I don’t know what the background to the situation is, but it reminds me of another thread about how Iberia and other Spanish aircraft are cutting the que’s at Spanish airports.
For example, how many times have you had to slow down to 220 over Palma while the Binter ATR is given priority into IBZ? Maybe frustration got the better of him.
For example, how many times have you had to slow down to 220 over Palma while the Binter ATR is given priority into IBZ? Maybe frustration got the better of him.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Off the east coast of Italy. early 90's, Nigel trying to climb:
"Brindisi, Speedbird bla-de-blah, could you tell us the callsign of the aircraft that is at our cruising level?"
"Brindisi, Speedbird bla-de-blah, could you tell us the callsign of the aircraft that is at our cruising level?"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Util BUS,
No one is "judging" the "entire" airline becaue of one tosser, that would be idiotic however, he was 3rd in the sequence, no one was put in in front and where he was at the time, the speed limit would have been imposed by the approach plate anyway.
The cases you are mentioning are very true indeed, but this one stands out sorely, as someone put it so well:
The sound of HAUGHTY IMPERIALISM!
I prefer the Spanish antics a hundred times over the example this highly disgusting individual.
Yes they all sound similar at BY as someone commented, but that's just the culture or.... the lack of it.
No one is "judging" the "entire" airline becaue of one tosser, that would be idiotic however, he was 3rd in the sequence, no one was put in in front and where he was at the time, the speed limit would have been imposed by the approach plate anyway.
The cases you are mentioning are very true indeed, but this one stands out sorely, as someone put it so well:
The sound of HAUGHTY IMPERIALISM!
I prefer the Spanish antics a hundred times over the example this highly disgusting individual.
Yes they all sound similar at BY as someone commented, but that's just the culture or.... the lack of it.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: south east
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everyone here has undoubtedly been irritated by Spanish ATC whether in mainland Spain or the Canaries. They shamelessly look after their own and think that by conversing in Spanish that UK operators are none the wiser.
That said, the gentleman involved here if true has let our airline down and himself. We're not all like that at Britannia.
That said, the gentleman involved here if true has let our airline down and himself. We're not all like that at Britannia.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: MAN
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no room whatsoever for rudeness or arrogance in the air.
In the case of the Spanish ATC's relationship with Spanish operators; I find it unprofessional and rude in the extreme to be given an extra 10-15 miles of vectoring to fit in a Binter or Iberia from a higher level in front of us.
Though not an excuse for the ill-considered utterances of my college, I understand the sentiment.
99% of the guys at Britannia are courteous and professional airmen/airwomen 100% of the time.
Flying Scotsman, you are a little miss guided if you think that working for one of the best Airlines in the world involves just "flogging a 767 around Europe"
Thankfully, in my experience, courtesy in the air is still alive and well
Apologies to those offended the other night by my college.
In the case of the Spanish ATC's relationship with Spanish operators; I find it unprofessional and rude in the extreme to be given an extra 10-15 miles of vectoring to fit in a Binter or Iberia from a higher level in front of us.
Though not an excuse for the ill-considered utterances of my college, I understand the sentiment.
99% of the guys at Britannia are courteous and professional airmen/airwomen 100% of the time.
Flying Scotsman, you are a little miss guided if you think that working for one of the best Airlines in the world involves just "flogging a 767 around Europe"
Thankfully, in my experience, courtesy in the air is still alive and well
Apologies to those offended the other night by my college.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OM...
As a Brits pilot, maybe you could call your Ops to call the Capt involved and suggest he might like to look here, or phone you and you can explain. He might have had a good reason, might have been taken out of context, and/or might like the right to reply.
After all, even if he is the complete t*sser made out here, it is all rather wasted if he is not made aware of the thread.
NoD
As a Brits pilot, maybe you could call your Ops to call the Capt involved and suggest he might like to look here, or phone you and you can explain. He might have had a good reason, might have been taken out of context, and/or might like the right to reply.
After all, even if he is the complete t*sser made out here, it is all rather wasted if he is not made aware of the thread.
NoD
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: MAN
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
one four sick,
ZZzzzzzzzzzzz, Put it in writing to: Chief Pilot Britannia Airways, Luton LU2 9ND
Nigel OD, which RE RASH's did you come down in?
Would a Captain in B.A get a call about this kind of issue? I guess not, he/she certainly would not in Britannia.
ZZzzzzzzzzzzz, Put it in writing to: Chief Pilot Britannia Airways, Luton LU2 9ND
Nigel OD, which RE RASH's did you come down in?
Would a Captain in B.A get a call about this kind of issue? I guess not, he/she certainly would not in Britannia.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Costa del CYYZ
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a former controller of UK TC airspace I can only add my agreement to this topic.
Britannia Airways (Otherwise known as "Can we Airways" because of their incessant requests for direct/higher/lower etc etc) were the airline I disliked most while controlling.
There seemed to be a continual attitude that they were the only plane in the sky and we as ATC were a mere irritant to their progress through the clear blue skies.
I recall on one occasion I was working a heavy rush inbound at about 7:30 one morning, we had in excess of 20 minute delays at LHR, we were stack switching and my R/T frequency was saturated. All crews were demonstrating a high standard of R/T discipline and keeping readbacks to the minimum and we were just about winning. Until a Britannia outbound came along and after giving initial climb, he had to level off, at which point he began whinging for higher. After three calls from him I eventually and for the only time had to deliver a verbal tongue lashing because it was obvious the guy didn't have a clue about the situation going on around him. Not to mention his constant stepping on of other higher priority transmissions with "level at FLxxx, request higher".
It's not great to generalise in such a way but this was fairly typical of BY crews (not normally as bad as this), and I can tell you it does not endear yourselves to the coal face controllers who are actually there to keep you alive and try to help when possible, not to restrict climb/descent nor to deny direct to the centrefix for no good reason. Other airlines seem to play the game, BY at times not.
Again, let me be clear that I'm not tarnishing the whole airline, I have dealt with some fine BY crews, but instances of controller "harassment" do the rounds fairly quickly in the rest room and on the floor and anecdotal evidence and my experience is that BY is the worst offender by far.
Anyway having said this let me conclude by giving an example of the most unprofessional R/T transmission I ever heard............from an Airtours (At the time) crew.
I was listening in as a trainee and this AIH inbound had been bleating for descent all the way down looking for a straight in. The controller eventually had to level him at FL100 against outbound traffic at FL90. The pilot was whining and moaning and requesting lower at least three additional times, and when he was finally given descent his response was
"Well that's really useful now isn't it"
I nearly fell off my chair, unbelievable !
Britannia Airways (Otherwise known as "Can we Airways" because of their incessant requests for direct/higher/lower etc etc) were the airline I disliked most while controlling.
There seemed to be a continual attitude that they were the only plane in the sky and we as ATC were a mere irritant to their progress through the clear blue skies.
I recall on one occasion I was working a heavy rush inbound at about 7:30 one morning, we had in excess of 20 minute delays at LHR, we were stack switching and my R/T frequency was saturated. All crews were demonstrating a high standard of R/T discipline and keeping readbacks to the minimum and we were just about winning. Until a Britannia outbound came along and after giving initial climb, he had to level off, at which point he began whinging for higher. After three calls from him I eventually and for the only time had to deliver a verbal tongue lashing because it was obvious the guy didn't have a clue about the situation going on around him. Not to mention his constant stepping on of other higher priority transmissions with "level at FLxxx, request higher".
It's not great to generalise in such a way but this was fairly typical of BY crews (not normally as bad as this), and I can tell you it does not endear yourselves to the coal face controllers who are actually there to keep you alive and try to help when possible, not to restrict climb/descent nor to deny direct to the centrefix for no good reason. Other airlines seem to play the game, BY at times not.
Again, let me be clear that I'm not tarnishing the whole airline, I have dealt with some fine BY crews, but instances of controller "harassment" do the rounds fairly quickly in the rest room and on the floor and anecdotal evidence and my experience is that BY is the worst offender by far.
Anyway having said this let me conclude by giving an example of the most unprofessional R/T transmission I ever heard............from an Airtours (At the time) crew.
I was listening in as a trainee and this AIH inbound had been bleating for descent all the way down looking for a straight in. The controller eventually had to level him at FL100 against outbound traffic at FL90. The pilot was whining and moaning and requesting lower at least three additional times, and when he was finally given descent his response was
"Well that's really useful now isn't it"
I nearly fell off my chair, unbelievable !
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Age: 17
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always find it hilarious when i hear some prat at BA making radios calls as "THE SpeedBird XXX"
Its amazing how much of a ****** with a carrot up his bum (never heard a her say it yet) they sound like, and its even funnier when all the other airlines in the vicinity all suddenly become THE so & so. It's quite amazing how quickly "The Speedbird XXX" suddenly returns to just plain old "Speedbird XXX".
Its amazing how much of a ****** with a carrot up his bum (never heard a her say it yet) they sound like, and its even funnier when all the other airlines in the vicinity all suddenly become THE so & so. It's quite amazing how quickly "The Speedbird XXX" suddenly returns to just plain old "Speedbird XXX".
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nigel OD, which RE RASH's did you come down in?
Would a Captain in B.A get a call about this kind of issue? I guess not, he/she certainly would not in Britannia
However, since a specific comment about a BY crew has been turned into the usual BA slagging off match, I'll bow out...
NoD