The Arrogance Of Britannia 034A
Join Date: May 2002
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I’m not sure that pride is the right motivator for trying to reduce operating costs. Yes I suppose we all take pride in a flight that’s well conducted and there is an element of satisfaction in getting back 20 minutes early…if for no other reason than to be on your way home when you should be crossing the threshold at that particular time.
It is my belief that pilots tend to be predominately of a more independent nature if you were to consider them as a group. Whenever our bosses (in any company) issue an instruction that we as a group consider suspect, that instruction/procedure tends to get circumnavigated by the operating crew. E.g. it would be a brave manager to challenge a captain on his fuel load if that captain had decided he needed extra for weather delays etc.
The cost savings available to the company I illustrated are a fact. I have no doubt all commercial operators in the UK and around the World will be doing similar analysis and trying to reduce fuel costs. The majority of pilots do realise that they have a direct bearing on the operating costs of the company, granted only by a small amount if taken on an individual bases, but not if taken across the across the fleet. They will do their best to reduce the cost where they can, after all no one wins if the company fails…least of all the flight crew. Aviation is now so cutthroat in nature that any company that squanders money needlessly will not be flying for long. Thankfully pilots tend to be smart enough to know this.
RWU, not sure what your talking about. Who said anything about 340kts in the descent or any other type of stupidity? We are talking about operating the aircraft efficiently…that means complying with the flight plan with regard to speed flight level etc.
It is my belief that pilots tend to be predominately of a more independent nature if you were to consider them as a group. Whenever our bosses (in any company) issue an instruction that we as a group consider suspect, that instruction/procedure tends to get circumnavigated by the operating crew. E.g. it would be a brave manager to challenge a captain on his fuel load if that captain had decided he needed extra for weather delays etc.
The cost savings available to the company I illustrated are a fact. I have no doubt all commercial operators in the UK and around the World will be doing similar analysis and trying to reduce fuel costs. The majority of pilots do realise that they have a direct bearing on the operating costs of the company, granted only by a small amount if taken on an individual bases, but not if taken across the across the fleet. They will do their best to reduce the cost where they can, after all no one wins if the company fails…least of all the flight crew. Aviation is now so cutthroat in nature that any company that squanders money needlessly will not be flying for long. Thankfully pilots tend to be smart enough to know this.
RWU, not sure what your talking about. Who said anything about 340kts in the descent or any other type of stupidity? We are talking about operating the aircraft efficiently…that means complying with the flight plan with regard to speed flight level etc.
Vox,
Not aimed at you or this incident, but an observation of how some people operate their aircraft. You are completely right about wanting to fly a low drag approach. Unfortunately some aircraft are not quite as good at losing energy as a 757/767. e.g on a 737-700 being a little dirty (180 kts) earlier is a necessity on some approaches such as AGP 14 and ALC 10, especially with a customary tailwind. Even then you will either be using speedbrake or taking gear a lot earlier than usual to get the speed back.
Not aimed at you or this incident, but an observation of how some people operate their aircraft. You are completely right about wanting to fly a low drag approach. Unfortunately some aircraft are not quite as good at losing energy as a 757/767. e.g on a 737-700 being a little dirty (180 kts) earlier is a necessity on some approaches such as AGP 14 and ALC 10, especially with a customary tailwind. Even then you will either be using speedbrake or taking gear a lot earlier than usual to get the speed back.
Have not flown the 757 myself, have just discussed this particular topic with a mate of mine who does. The 737-700 wing is unbelievable. It must be to lift 10 T more load at V2 speeds almost 10 kts less, with the same powered engines as a -300. Its ROD at clean speed is extremely poor!
Join Date: Sep 1999
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Right way.
The 757 is a slippery basta*d that doesn't go down and slow down very well. With the icing on its even worse and use of speed brake is amost mandatory.
So get you facs right before you post next time eh?
NN
The 757 is a slippery basta*d that doesn't go down and slow down very well. With the icing on its even worse and use of speed brake is amost mandatory.
So get you facs right before you post next time eh?
NN
Based on some of the replies to my post I stand humbly corrected, but to:
<<So get you facs right before you post next time eh?>>
Kind of nice courteous attitude that this whole thread alludes to...
P.s. Have found some info on descent rates on 757 and at clean speed is approx 1200 ft/min (no spd brks), compared to 1100 ft/min (no sb)on 737 NG. Thinking about it now I should not be surprised considering those engines!
<<So get you facs right before you post next time eh?>>
Kind of nice courteous attitude that this whole thread alludes to...
P.s. Have found some info on descent rates on 757 and at clean speed is approx 1200 ft/min (no spd brks), compared to 1100 ft/min (no sb)on 737 NG. Thinking about it now I should not be surprised considering those engines!
Last edited by Right Way Up; 12th Jun 2004 at 15:32.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Guys, enough now you are making me yawn. Get out a bit, there's sunshine out there, families to deal with. Leave work back at the airport now, there's a good 23,705 + of you.
This subject has surely come to an end.
Anyway why do BY sound so stuck up when they come on the R/T?
For god's sake, don't answer that!!!!!!!
This subject has surely come to an end.
Anyway why do BY sound so stuck up when they come on the R/T?
For god's sake, don't answer that!!!!!!!
Join Date: May 2004
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strange isnt it that it always seems to be the airlines with the best conditions seem to have the biggest dickheads.
we have a few in our company but they all seem to come from target airways or am i agreeing with myself..
we have a few in our company but they all seem to come from target airways or am i agreeing with myself..
AGP 14, in the -700.
I have found that flap 10 is a good configuration to keep the speed under control. Gets the leading edge slats to full and saves putting the gear down too early.
But yes, a good wing, very nearly as good as the 'Bus..............
I have found that flap 10 is a good configuration to keep the speed under control. Gets the leading edge slats to full and saves putting the gear down too early.
But yes, a good wing, very nearly as good as the 'Bus..............
