The Arrogance Of Britannia 034A
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Absolutely astonishing.
By the way Kreuger, when you say 'between Europe and Africa', do you mean geographically, culturally, educationally, ethnically, or metaphorically?
You'll gather, I'm confused. As well as drunk, obviously, at this time of night.
By the way Kreuger, when you say 'between Europe and Africa', do you mean geographically, culturally, educationally, ethnically, or metaphorically?
You'll gather, I'm confused. As well as drunk, obviously, at this time of night.
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Pompous and imperious R/T behavior is, in my view, not limited to certain nationalities
The best one in my memory was a German controller's reply to a recalcitrant Delta 'good ol' boy' in FRA one morning
Having tired of them man's repeated requests for direct / lower - and petulant complaints when his requests were not granted - FRA approach finally got fed up and said
"...Delta xxx, if you cannot do as your are told, you will go to Rudesheim and hold until you can..."
Needless to say, nothig further was heard from the DAL skipper that morning.
The best one in my memory was a German controller's reply to a recalcitrant Delta 'good ol' boy' in FRA one morning
Having tired of them man's repeated requests for direct / lower - and petulant complaints when his requests were not granted - FRA approach finally got fed up and said
"...Delta xxx, if you cannot do as your are told, you will go to Rudesheim and hold until you can..."
Needless to say, nothig further was heard from the DAL skipper that morning.
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Quote... " English ATCOs are the best in the world without doubt and knowing a few of them I know what a stressful job it can be and pilots do not think it is a 'lowly job'."
Let's hope ORD's finest don't read pprune!
DD
(tongue in cheek, for those with the humor gene in stasis)
Let's hope ORD's finest don't read pprune!
DD
(tongue in cheek, for those with the humor gene in stasis)
Join Date: Feb 2002
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From Pub User
As you said before you must be drunk, maybe because of your alias, go figure...
And yes, I mean geographically, culturally, educationally, ethnically and no, not metaphorically.
What astonishes me is that it sounds to me that you find it somewhat diminishing in a person!
And by the way, if you were trying to make a point on this thread, what was it?
Mine, as stated before, was that some crew made a arse of themself and from my point of view that should be stated and that is it. A big non-event...
By the way Kreuger, when you say 'between Europe and Africa', do you mean geographically, culturally, educationally, ethnically, or metaphorically?
And yes, I mean geographically, culturally, educationally, ethnically and no, not metaphorically.
What astonishes me is that it sounds to me that you find it somewhat diminishing in a person!
And by the way, if you were trying to make a point on this thread, what was it?
Mine, as stated before, was that some crew made a arse of themself and from my point of view that should be stated and that is it. A big non-event...
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I remember one evening recovery in one of Aunt Betty's finest, having to charge through the London TCA at all the wrong time - rush hour. The London controller was doing a magnificent job, very slick at moving people the way they wanted to go - including us, cutting right across the flow.
Until a UK charter pratt tried to force his way through the carefully orchestrated scenario. After suffering the pillock for about half a dozen sarcastic calls, she very quietly reminded the captain that all transmissions were recorded, that this particular tape would be pulled for investigation because clearly she was doing an unsatisfactory job and that should the investigation find that she was following the correct procedures, he would be the subject of a violation report.
Every transmission [including my own] signed off with words to the effect that she had done a first rate job and we would be willing to be witnesses at the investigation.
Pratt said virtually nothing for the rest of his transit...
Until a UK charter pratt tried to force his way through the carefully orchestrated scenario. After suffering the pillock for about half a dozen sarcastic calls, she very quietly reminded the captain that all transmissions were recorded, that this particular tape would be pulled for investigation because clearly she was doing an unsatisfactory job and that should the investigation find that she was following the correct procedures, he would be the subject of a violation report.
Every transmission [including my own] signed off with words to the effect that she had done a first rate job and we would be willing to be witnesses at the investigation.
Pratt said virtually nothing for the rest of his transit...
I Have Control
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THE
I find myself preceeding my callsign with "The" and I have no idea why. Folks, I don't think there is anything sinister about the use of the definite article.
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I'd like to make a small observation. I seem to recall a thread recently on whether this website should be confined to professional pilots only.
Judging by some of the contributions to this thread, it would seem that there are plenty of professionals out there who deem it necessary to bring post-flight bar talk to the forum.
IMHO there's not much professional about that.
If you feel it necessary to contribute such trivia, then let's not be protesting about others who, although not involved in the profession, feel the need to have their say.
Judging by some of the contributions to this thread, it would seem that there are plenty of professionals out there who deem it necessary to bring post-flight bar talk to the forum.
IMHO there's not much professional about that.
If you feel it necessary to contribute such trivia, then let's not be protesting about others who, although not involved in the profession, feel the need to have their say.
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one four sick I’ve always found it useful to be in possession of all the facts before I let rip with both barrels. (Especially on a public forum)
It is truly wonderful that a Sky god like yourself would be willing to advise a lesser mortal on the error of his ways. I fear that sending a letter to the chief pilot at Britannia Airways would not result in the pompous hooray Henry getting the message. For that you will have to trot on down to the CAA and demand to speak to the CAA pilot who operated that flight. (As they do from time to time) I’m sure that he would be most grateful for your words of wisdom.
I flew with the pilot that was shot gunning that flight today and he said something about them being told that there was no speed control by the previous controller…but not being present I wouldn’t know.
While I’m at it and in your presence great one, may I confess my sins?
Forgive me for I have sinned, I did today enquire of the Spanish controller if there was any speed restriction, he said nay and I wantonly kept the speed up until just before landing when I had to run the flaps and lower the gear. This saved fuel, truly a terrible crime.
Forgive me for I have sinned. Today on departure I requested an early turnout thus reducing the track miles flown in the SID. This saved yet more fuel, truly a terrible crime.
Forgive me for I have sinned. Today I did lead the Spanish, French and English controllers into temptation. I invited them to offer me shortcuts while in the cruise. They surrendered to my siren song. This saved still more fuel, truly a terrible crime.
TTFN
It is truly wonderful that a Sky god like yourself would be willing to advise a lesser mortal on the error of his ways. I fear that sending a letter to the chief pilot at Britannia Airways would not result in the pompous hooray Henry getting the message. For that you will have to trot on down to the CAA and demand to speak to the CAA pilot who operated that flight. (As they do from time to time) I’m sure that he would be most grateful for your words of wisdom.
I flew with the pilot that was shot gunning that flight today and he said something about them being told that there was no speed control by the previous controller…but not being present I wouldn’t know.
While I’m at it and in your presence great one, may I confess my sins?
Forgive me for I have sinned, I did today enquire of the Spanish controller if there was any speed restriction, he said nay and I wantonly kept the speed up until just before landing when I had to run the flaps and lower the gear. This saved fuel, truly a terrible crime.
Forgive me for I have sinned. Today on departure I requested an early turnout thus reducing the track miles flown in the SID. This saved yet more fuel, truly a terrible crime.
Forgive me for I have sinned. Today I did lead the Spanish, French and English controllers into temptation. I invited them to offer me shortcuts while in the cruise. They surrendered to my siren song. This saved still more fuel, truly a terrible crime.
TTFN
.....tumbleweed blows past.......
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Vox,
I am not sure entirely about the thrust of your contribution, but if you think I mentioned anything about shortcuts anywhere in any capacity, you may need to re read the whole damned thread, as I didn't.
As to the fact wheteher there was or wasn't any speed control, is about as interesting as watching clouds form.
So, what are you trying to say?
By the way, it was BY management that wrote to me, not the oher way.
one four suck
I am not sure entirely about the thrust of your contribution, but if you think I mentioned anything about shortcuts anywhere in any capacity, you may need to re read the whole damned thread, as I didn't.
As to the fact wheteher there was or wasn't any speed control, is about as interesting as watching clouds form.
So, what are you trying to say?
By the way, it was BY management that wrote to me, not the oher way.
one four suck
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Oh dear, I’ll try to explain. You have accused a Britannia pilot of being a pompous hooray Henry. You made an assumption, you were wrong. That then started a lot of comments about how BY pilots are always asking for short cuts and if there is any speed control etc. Unfortunately some comments came from ATCO’s. In short your wrong accusation led to a slagging fest against BY pilots in general…all clear so far?
I then pointed out that in fact the CAA employed the pilot. I then used humour as a way of bringing to the more astute readers that as we are commercial pilots, part of our responsibility is to reduce operating costs. That means operating the aircraft in the most economical way possible. That means we do not drag it in, all dirtied up way out at 18 miles if we can avoid it. It also means that when appropriate we will always request any direct routeing available, which is IMHO the correct thing to do…still with me?
I also mentioned that the CAA pilot had been told by the previous controller that there was no speed control, i.e. he could fly faster than the published speeds for the arrival. From your comments the crew were surprised to be confronted by two aircraft out at 18 plus miles doing such a slow and uneconomical speed after they had been told that there was no speed control. Suddenly they had lots of energy that they had to lose. They were confronted with trying to slow down and descend at the same time, which can be difficult in a 757. Maybe they were a bit disheartened when the situation could have been avoided by being told that there was in fact standard speed control in force?
They should not have let the irritation become apparent on the RT with his comment as you allege. (It could have been an attempt at humour for all you know) But since you appear to have already made your mind up about his accent and drawn conclusions from the tone, rather that the spoken word, it might be that you were in fact wrong.
On a personal note, we are supposed to be professional pilots on this forum. Perhaps a professional way to deal with your concerns would have been to voice them to the relevant people in private. Instead you chose to behave like a petulant child on a public forum. FWIW, IMHO you have let yourself down and the rest of the professional pilots on this forum.
I then pointed out that in fact the CAA employed the pilot. I then used humour as a way of bringing to the more astute readers that as we are commercial pilots, part of our responsibility is to reduce operating costs. That means operating the aircraft in the most economical way possible. That means we do not drag it in, all dirtied up way out at 18 miles if we can avoid it. It also means that when appropriate we will always request any direct routeing available, which is IMHO the correct thing to do…still with me?
I also mentioned that the CAA pilot had been told by the previous controller that there was no speed control, i.e. he could fly faster than the published speeds for the arrival. From your comments the crew were surprised to be confronted by two aircraft out at 18 plus miles doing such a slow and uneconomical speed after they had been told that there was no speed control. Suddenly they had lots of energy that they had to lose. They were confronted with trying to slow down and descend at the same time, which can be difficult in a 757. Maybe they were a bit disheartened when the situation could have been avoided by being told that there was in fact standard speed control in force?
They should not have let the irritation become apparent on the RT with his comment as you allege. (It could have been an attempt at humour for all you know) But since you appear to have already made your mind up about his accent and drawn conclusions from the tone, rather that the spoken word, it might be that you were in fact wrong.
On a personal note, we are supposed to be professional pilots on this forum. Perhaps a professional way to deal with your concerns would have been to voice them to the relevant people in private. Instead you chose to behave like a petulant child on a public forum. FWIW, IMHO you have let yourself down and the rest of the professional pilots on this forum.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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A 'caveat' - for no-one IN PARTICULAR, OK?
It is by no means unusual for 'no speed control' from controller 1 to become 'min clean' or a bit faster from controller 2 or 3 etc. This can happen when 'dynamic' situations develop with departures etc.
It is therefore WISE to have a 'plan' up your sleeve (yes, even with a short-sleeved shirt ) to cope with this.
To deflect the 'torrent' of abuse which may follow, this is not a 'go' at CAA or BY pilots.
It is by no means unusual for 'no speed control' from controller 1 to become 'min clean' or a bit faster from controller 2 or 3 etc. This can happen when 'dynamic' situations develop with departures etc.
It is therefore WISE to have a 'plan' up your sleeve (yes, even with a short-sleeved shirt
) to cope with this.To deflect the 'torrent' of abuse which may follow, this is not a 'go' at CAA or BY pilots.
Right, first up, cards on the table..................I'm not a pilot. If that offends please stop reading now.
I am surprised at several postings which seem to imply that charter pilots are lesser beings to scheduled pilots. I have worked for both sched and charter airlines and in dealings with the pilots I have found ex charter pilots working for sched airlines and ex sched pilots working for charter airlines, so I doubt that there is much difference between them other than in the T & C's.
As Kreuger said earlier, how can this thread have spawned so much comment?
I am surprised at several postings which seem to imply that charter pilots are lesser beings to scheduled pilots. I have worked for both sched and charter airlines and in dealings with the pilots I have found ex charter pilots working for sched airlines and ex sched pilots working for charter airlines, so I doubt that there is much difference between them other than in the T & C's.
As Kreuger said earlier, how can this thread have spawned so much comment?
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Vox,
You say "You have accused a Britannia pilot of being a pompous hooray Henry. You made an assumption, you were wrong."
I say, I was right, I wasn't making an assumption, it was just like I described it - FACT.
You say "That then started a lot of comments about how BY pilots are always asking for SHORT CUTS and if there is any speed control etc"
I say, you're hot headed as you can not possibly show me I said the above, so go read the whole thread again, NOW.
You say"In short your wrong accusation led to a slagging fest against BY pilots in general…all clear so far? "
I say, my accusation was right. Whatever it lead to, it meant to.
As to the rest of your posting - I am getting a lot of anger, opinionated-ness, lack of coherence and lots and lots of EMOTION.
Why not just chill out. As it happens the matter is in hand by the right people, I mean those that are in a position to do something about this.
one four sick
You say "You have accused a Britannia pilot of being a pompous hooray Henry. You made an assumption, you were wrong."
I say, I was right, I wasn't making an assumption, it was just like I described it - FACT.
You say "That then started a lot of comments about how BY pilots are always asking for SHORT CUTS and if there is any speed control etc"
I say, you're hot headed as you can not possibly show me I said the above, so go read the whole thread again, NOW.
You say"In short your wrong accusation led to a slagging fest against BY pilots in general…all clear so far? "
I say, my accusation was right. Whatever it lead to, it meant to.
As to the rest of your posting - I am getting a lot of anger, opinionated-ness, lack of coherence and lots and lots of EMOTION.
Why not just chill out. As it happens the matter is in hand by the right people, I mean those that are in a position to do something about this.
one four sick
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BOAC I couldn’t agree more.
Most pilots in flying practice will always have a plan B/C etc. But I think you’ll find that most CAA pilots don’t get quite as much time on the aircraft as they would like.
Maybe in this instance plan A and B had been used and there was no plan C. We don’t know…we weren’t on the flt deck.
Most pilots in flying practice will always have a plan B/C etc. But I think you’ll find that most CAA pilots don’t get quite as much time on the aircraft as they would like.
Maybe in this instance plan A and B had been used and there was no plan C. We don’t know…we weren’t on the flt deck.
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VOX:
Forgive me for butting in and I stand to be corrected as I am no pro but I thought that certain speed restrictions are not for ATC to be lifted (such as the 250 KIAS below 10K etc.) so "no speed" does not automatically lift certain restrictions ?
TR
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ThinkRate! ThinkRate! Don't Think! Don't Think!
I also mentioned that the CAA pilot had been told by the previous controller that there was no speed control, i.e. he could fly faster than the published speeds for the arrival
TR
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ThinkRate! ThinkRate! Don't Think! Don't Think!
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One four sick,
I have been reading pprune for quite a while and only felt compelled to respond to this thread. Whilst, it's correct to have your say, we will not countenance lies.
The BY management did not write to you. If you persist in this vain I will get the all the information, pull the tapes, review the evidence and pursue you through your Fleet Manager regardless of the circumstances.
Sorry to be so heavy handed but on these issues it pays to speak the truth.
I have been reading pprune for quite a while and only felt compelled to respond to this thread. Whilst, it's correct to have your say, we will not countenance lies.
The BY management did not write to you. If you persist in this vain I will get the all the information, pull the tapes, review the evidence and pursue you through your Fleet Manager regardless of the circumstances.
Sorry to be so heavy handed but on these issues it pays to speak the truth.