munich incident
Join Date: Jun 2000
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From the Fokker AOM: "Engine anti-icing must be on during all ground- and flight operations when icing conditions exist or are anticipated." With regard to wing and tail anti-ice: "The wing and tail systems must be selected on when icing conditions exist or when icing is observed."
You can read that to say, engine anti-ice on before you enter icing conditions, and wing and tail anti-ice on after you enter the same.
Fokker just come out Friday, recommending operating with the engine anti-ice on at all times when the TAT is below +6 to -25 degrees C, regardless.
With regards to Austrian Airlines, does replacing the F70 "engine ice protection system" refer to going back to the orginial design of the ice impact trays?
You can read that to say, engine anti-ice on before you enter icing conditions, and wing and tail anti-ice on after you enter the same.
Fokker just come out Friday, recommending operating with the engine anti-ice on at all times when the TAT is below +6 to -25 degrees C, regardless.
With regards to Austrian Airlines, does replacing the F70 "engine ice protection system" refer to going back to the orginial design of the ice impact trays?
Join Date: May 2003
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Interesting photos of the impact trays.
There's a good shot of the damage to the rear fuselage at www.airliners.net/open.file/486471/M/
This in the area through which the main fuel lines to the engines and APU run!
Thinking about what happened when the toboggan ride came to an end-
I'd love to have heard what the Captain said to his passengers.
Did Captain Kirk send the Turk outside for a look around before deciding against an evacuation?
Actually he wouldn't have needed to risk clambering over the half extended stairway, he could have used the slide on the opposite galley door.
Maybe they started the APU to keep warm, served coffee and listened to Johann Strauss waltzes whilst waiting for the emergency services to arrive!
There's a good shot of the damage to the rear fuselage at www.airliners.net/open.file/486471/M/
This in the area through which the main fuel lines to the engines and APU run!
Thinking about what happened when the toboggan ride came to an end-
I'd love to have heard what the Captain said to his passengers.
Did Captain Kirk send the Turk outside for a look around before deciding against an evacuation?
Actually he wouldn't have needed to risk clambering over the half extended stairway, he could have used the slide on the opposite galley door.
Maybe they started the APU to keep warm, served coffee and listened to Johann Strauss waltzes whilst waiting for the emergency services to arrive!
Join Date: May 2000
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@moderatar,
You certainly would have known better, do You?
As rumours go, the service door would not open due to some stress/twist (forgive my english being not perfect) on the fuselage.
captain kurka surely knew that there is another door available, rest assured.
And for the damage to the rear fuselage: the picture shows some damage to the wing/fuselage fairings, nothing more.
I am pretty sure Fokker did not rely on these panels which are there for pure aerodynamic improvement to mount the fuel lines.
I am just waiting for You to tell stories about Austrians being "Krauts", then I'll know all about Your "style".
You certainly would have known better, do You?
As rumours go, the service door would not open due to some stress/twist (forgive my english being not perfect) on the fuselage.
captain kurka surely knew that there is another door available, rest assured.
And for the damage to the rear fuselage: the picture shows some damage to the wing/fuselage fairings, nothing more.
I am pretty sure Fokker did not rely on these panels which are there for pure aerodynamic improvement to mount the fuel lines.
I am just waiting for You to tell stories about Austrians being "Krauts", then I'll know all about Your "style".
Do a Hover - it avoids G
Join Date: Oct 1999
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The captain of this aircraft had a serious in-flight emergency – however it was caused.
Despite this he did not loose the plot, pulled off a remarkable field landing and continued to think and make difficult decisions (like not to evacuate – a much harder one than everybody out)
Methinks anybody who criticises such a man without all the facts is saying more about themselves than this accident.
Despite this he did not loose the plot, pulled off a remarkable field landing and continued to think and make difficult decisions (like not to evacuate – a much harder one than everybody out)
Methinks anybody who criticises such a man without all the facts is saying more about themselves than this accident.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Moderator said:
That would be one really flat slide going down! 
Remember that the aircraft was lying on its belly.
The door would only have been about a foot from the ground.
he could have used the slide on the opposite galley door.
Remember that the aircraft was lying on its belly.
The door would only have been about a foot from the ground.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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evacuate or not?
difficult decision, would be really a tragedy to evacuate after going down safely on a snowcovered field and then loose a pax who gets lost in the snowfall, maybe injured, in a state of shock, no jacket on, temperatures around the freezing point. crowd control isn't that easy in such circumstances. a controversial decision but as i think not a bad one. There's always a great difference between classroom and real life.
well done boys!
well done boys!
Join Date: Mar 2000
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To evac...or not.
To those that think that this crew was irresponsible to not evac...were YOU there to assess the situation?
Thought not.
Would suggest these folks, who claim to 'know it all' and would have done differently...YOU WERN'T AT THE SCENE, so of course cannot comment effectively about the situation.
Some never learn, it seems.
Why should we be surprised?
To those that think that this crew was irresponsible to not evac...were YOU there to assess the situation?
Thought not.
Would suggest these folks, who claim to 'know it all' and would have done differently...YOU WERN'T AT THE SCENE, so of course cannot comment effectively about the situation.
Some never learn, it seems.
Why should we be surprised?
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To all of you who seem to know it all from a position in front of your computers, I like to quote a sentence from John Farley`s post:
I am sure you hate the media when they dive in with their guesswork a few minutes after an aviation accident(?) So, why do the same mistake
Methinks anybody who criticises such a man without all the facts is saying more about themselves than this accident.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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See BFU's accident Bulletin for Jan 2004, pages 3-11 (in German):
http://www.bfu-web.de/Bulletin/Bulletin0401.pdf
http://www.bfu-web.de/Bulletin/Bulletin0401.pdf
Maxrev: You complimented the crew on good stick and rudder skills.
Why can't the FMC and perfect knowledge of all automation modes, which appear to create in many (new-generation) Pprune pilots a smug sort of pride, not substitute for good flying skills?
Why can't the FMC and perfect knowledge of all automation modes, which appear to create in many (new-generation) Pprune pilots a smug sort of pride, not substitute for good flying skills?
Ignition Override - perhaps because skill-based learning and experience is held in higher esteem by the pilot fraternity than that which is merely knowledge-based?
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Full report of Captain Kirk, the ice and the Bostik at http://www.bfu-web.de/berichte/04_ax001efr.pdf
There is no comment on the Captain's decision not to evacuate nor is there a CVR transcript - pity!
(Edited by PPRuNe Dispatcher to correct the link)
There is no comment on the Captain's decision not to evacuate nor is there a CVR transcript - pity!
(Edited by PPRuNe Dispatcher to correct the link)
