Concorde Crews to Strike
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ojs, you said:
I'd rather not go into specifics on an open forum, especially as nothing has been resolved as yet.
However, it is fair to say that what we want is the same that was offered to the 747 Classic Flight Engineers in BA a couple of years ago, which we were not allowed to take because we were needed for Concorde until (as was thought at the time) at least 2007.
regards
TwoTun, can you tell us the details of what you were promised and what you're being offered instead?
However, it is fair to say that what we want is the same that was offered to the 747 Classic Flight Engineers in BA a couple of years ago, which we were not allowed to take because we were needed for Concorde until (as was thought at the time) at least 2007.
regards
Twotun, good luck.
When the MAN Engineers were told to go they were promised the same deal as the classic FEs.
That was on 05/11/01.
One week later the world changed and all bets were off.
If you do get the deal please let us know because about 120 or so ex BA engineers will be very, very interested!!
Paterbrat It's been a long time since BA received any government handouts. Don't you think you should drop that hackneyed old line? As for attitude, with a record like yours I should be very careful about throwing stones in glass houses.
When the MAN Engineers were told to go they were promised the same deal as the classic FEs.
That was on 05/11/01.
One week later the world changed and all bets were off.
If you do get the deal please let us know because about 120 or so ex BA engineers will be very, very interested!!
Paterbrat It's been a long time since BA received any government handouts. Don't you think you should drop that hackneyed old line? As for attitude, with a record like yours I should be very careful about throwing stones in glass houses.
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Dont you people ever learn?
Listen to yourselves, all of you that are criticizing the engineers.
You are playing into the managements hands; have you all forgotten that united we stand? BA management must be laughing their heads off when they see the divisions and infighting that is clearly displayed on this and many other similar threads.
I am ashamed of you all, so little unity. Selfish, self-centered, blinkered, thoughtless and SO SPOILT that you have forgotten all the hard work done over the last hundred years to bring rights, recognition and decency to the working classes.
Now it’s the Concorde engineers getting shafted, tomorrow it could be you – look past the end of your noses.
But of course, I forgot, YOUR ALL RIGHT JACK!
You are playing into the managements hands; have you all forgotten that united we stand? BA management must be laughing their heads off when they see the divisions and infighting that is clearly displayed on this and many other similar threads.
I am ashamed of you all, so little unity. Selfish, self-centered, blinkered, thoughtless and SO SPOILT that you have forgotten all the hard work done over the last hundred years to bring rights, recognition and decency to the working classes.
Now it’s the Concorde engineers getting shafted, tomorrow it could be you – look past the end of your noses.
But of course, I forgot, YOUR ALL RIGHT JACK!
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"BA management must be laughing their heads off"
Actually my guess would be they're S******g themselves.
This is the last thing they need now, Summer's gone and the results weren't good according to the press reports, it's going to be a long hard winter and 2 strikes in one year would be a total disaster.
Sell those shares now, you can buy them back 50p cheaper later, .......if they're still in business of course.
Actually my guess would be they're S******g themselves.
This is the last thing they need now, Summer's gone and the results weren't good according to the press reports, it's going to be a long hard winter and 2 strikes in one year would be a total disaster.
Sell those shares now, you can buy them back 50p cheaper later, .......if they're still in business of course.
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Bean Counter:
You are confusing a BA engineers strike with what this thread is about: 18 Concorde flight engineers. If 18 Concorde flight engineers go on strike no one will notice; what I wouldn't give for a mass BA engineers strike over this.
Its the disunity in here that the BA managers are laughing about.
Its the disunity in here that the BA managers are laughing about.
Mistrust in Management
YouNeverStopLearning
<<If 18 Concorde flight engineers go on strike no one will notice>>
Oh I do think people would notice. Given the extensive media coverage concerning the announcement of its early retirement, I would imagine the grounding of its last flights would attract considerable attention.
Lets hope a reasonable agreement is reached.
Regards
Exeng
Oh I do think people would notice. Given the extensive media coverage concerning the announcement of its early retirement, I would imagine the grounding of its last flights would attract considerable attention.
Lets hope a reasonable agreement is reached.
Regards
Exeng
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Two Tun, come, you have raised the topic on an open forum, not in the closed BA part, why do you say "I'd rather not go into specifics on an open forum, especially as nothing has been resolved as yet".
What specifically is it that the Classic F/E's were offered (back when circumstances were different)?
So, you have your meeting on Wednesday, if you feel you wish to finish your careers with a strike ballot, you then have to hold an independently scrutinised secret ballot, and provide a minimum of 7 days notice to your employer of any proposed action...............what a way to end a career.
How many management F/E's are there on the fleet now?
What specifically is it that the Classic F/E's were offered (back when circumstances were different)?
So, you have your meeting on Wednesday, if you feel you wish to finish your careers with a strike ballot, you then have to hold an independently scrutinised secret ballot, and provide a minimum of 7 days notice to your employer of any proposed action...............what a way to end a career.
How many management F/E's are there on the fleet now?
Mistrust in Management
rho_tait
Two Tun did not raise this topic but added to it after Pic744 started it.
Presumably Two Tun is of the opinion that to post personal facts that directly relate to other individuals would not be appropriate. I respect that and I'm sure you do also.
Regards
Exeng
Presumably Two Tun is of the opinion that to post personal facts that directly relate to other individuals would not be appropriate. I respect that and I'm sure you do also.
Regards
Exeng
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rho_tait, you said:
erm....no I didn't. I replied to a post someone has put on the forum.
Again, not on an open forum. In point of fact, the specifics are only really relevant to the 18 Flight Engineers and BA.
Yes, of course you are correct. Hang on, I'll just loosen my trousers and bend over.
One. Who will be doing a lot of flying in October.
Two Tun, come, you have raised the topic on an open forum, not in the closed BA part, why do you say "I'd rather not go into specifics on an open forum, especially as nothing has been resolved as yet".
What specifically is it that the Classic F/E's were offered (back when circumstances were different)?
So, you have your meeting on Wednesday, if you feel you wish to finish your careers with a strike ballot, you then have to hold an independently scrutinised secret ballot, and provide a minimum of 7 days notice to your employer of any proposed action...............what a way to end a career.
How many management F/E's are there on the fleet now?
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TwoTun - I respect your right to keep the offer made by BA private but reading between the lines I suspect you and your colleagues are being offered more than the legal minimum. True?
You say :-
I don't see how BA are under any obligation to give you the same deal made to a different fleet two years ago. You weren't able to take the deal two years ago because your fleet was still flying.
Companies make different deals depending on circumstances. When I was made redundant my package was less lucrative than those made redundant 6 months earlier. By the same token those made redundant recently received a lesser package than I did. Should I have got the same package as those made redundant 6 months earlier? Should those made redundant recently have received the same as me or the same as those made redundant before me? In an ideal world we would get huge pay-offs or pension top-ups and be able to retire to our villa in Spain. However, this is a business world, not an ideal world.
I would suggest you and your colleagues think very carefully about your position. If you do go on strike and spoil Concordes swansong, don't be surprised if BA pull the offer on the table and give you the legal minimum. If they did this there is little, if anything, you can do about it. Any support from your colleagues could only be moral, as any industrial action on their part would be considered secondary action and therefore illegal.
By all means keep negociating. But in the words of the song "Know when to hold them. Know when to fold them."
You say :-
it is fair to say that what we want is the same that was offered to the 747 Classic Flight Engineers in BA a couple of years ago, which we were not allowed to take because we were needed for Concorde until (as was thought at the time) at least 2007.
Companies make different deals depending on circumstances. When I was made redundant my package was less lucrative than those made redundant 6 months earlier. By the same token those made redundant recently received a lesser package than I did. Should I have got the same package as those made redundant 6 months earlier? Should those made redundant recently have received the same as me or the same as those made redundant before me? In an ideal world we would get huge pay-offs or pension top-ups and be able to retire to our villa in Spain. However, this is a business world, not an ideal world.
I would suggest you and your colleagues think very carefully about your position. If you do go on strike and spoil Concordes swansong, don't be surprised if BA pull the offer on the table and give you the legal minimum. If they did this there is little, if anything, you can do about it. Any support from your colleagues could only be moral, as any industrial action on their part would be considered secondary action and therefore illegal.
By all means keep negociating. But in the words of the song "Know when to hold them. Know when to fold them."
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My advice to the FE is get as much as possible, play hard ball and don't except anything less.
My father was made redundant in 1987, he worked for ThornEMI as an electronics engineer (nothing to do with aviation), he was 55 at the time.
He is now struggling because their union accepted the first offer, about 10 grand and a pension. Not bad considering when it was.
He paid off the morgage with that and had a hoiliday with mum. Not much after that, as you can guess. He as a pension of 5 grand a year.
My father as never really worked since then, no permanent work, permanent recession( we're Northerners).
If for example that the FE are getting 50 grand, average age I would suspect is about 50ish (no offence!). You are more or less in the same position as my Dad. There is no guarentee that you'll get a well paid job again. Pensions, I would suspect are pretty good but as what happened to my Dad this year, they decided not to give them their bonus (2000quid).
You also have to factor in Inflation. It's pretty low at the moment but please remember that in the early 1990's it was 11% (actual 15-16% government smudged the figures after black wednesday!).
So that really is what you've got to live on for the next 20,30,40 years, who knows?
Sorry, this was a long one!!
In a nut shell...
Those in this position should screw as much money as possible out of BA
.
Those not in this position and don't agree with this have right to their opinion but I would guess would do exactly as the above.
Nobody can predict the future, it's not being greedy but providing security in an umpredictable world (Do you think I should sell pensions? ).
Goodluck 
My father was made redundant in 1987, he worked for ThornEMI as an electronics engineer (nothing to do with aviation), he was 55 at the time.
He is now struggling because their union accepted the first offer, about 10 grand and a pension. Not bad considering when it was.
He paid off the morgage with that and had a hoiliday with mum. Not much after that, as you can guess. He as a pension of 5 grand a year.
My father as never really worked since then, no permanent work, permanent recession( we're Northerners).
If for example that the FE are getting 50 grand, average age I would suspect is about 50ish (no offence!). You are more or less in the same position as my Dad. There is no guarentee that you'll get a well paid job again. Pensions, I would suspect are pretty good but as what happened to my Dad this year, they decided not to give them their bonus (2000quid).
You also have to factor in Inflation. It's pretty low at the moment but please remember that in the early 1990's it was 11% (actual 15-16% government smudged the figures after black wednesday!).
So that really is what you've got to live on for the next 20,30,40 years, who knows?
Sorry, this was a long one!!
In a nut shell...
Those in this position should screw as much money as possible out of BA
.Those not in this position and don't agree with this have right to their opinion but I would guess would do exactly as the above.
Nobody can predict the future, it's not being greedy but providing security in an umpredictable world (Do you think I should sell pensions? ).
Goodluck
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No news on the meeting as of 1500 hours. However, blessed as I am with extra-sensory abilities, and being able to see in the future, this is what I predict.
BA will refuse to budge.
The BACC (Company Council) will report back and tell us that there is nothing more they can do (the sceptical amongst us would retort with the fact that they couldn't have done any less).
We will tell the BACC that we want a Strike Ballot.
They will say OK - how about in a month's time?
We will end up being less than happy as we all ride off into the sunset, clutching P45's and 30 year old CVs.
BA will get the media coverage it wants, not the media coverage it deserves.
See if I'm right.
BA will refuse to budge.
The BACC (Company Council) will report back and tell us that there is nothing more they can do (the sceptical amongst us would retort with the fact that they couldn't have done any less).
We will tell the BACC that we want a Strike Ballot.
They will say OK - how about in a month's time?
We will end up being less than happy as we all ride off into the sunset, clutching P45's and 30 year old CVs.
BA will get the media coverage it wants, not the media coverage it deserves.
See if I'm right.
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Hmm, all very interesting.
TwoTun raises the subject about alledged poor treatment, then goes on to say later that he cannot reveal what that 'poor treatment' is...or indeed what was offered.
Absolute nonsense.
No wonder companies have a hard line with these folks.
Suggest that this TwoTun grow up...and stop acting like a child
TwoTun raises the subject about alledged poor treatment, then goes on to say later that he cannot reveal what that 'poor treatment' is...or indeed what was offered.
Absolute nonsense.
No wonder companies have a hard line with these folks.
Suggest that this TwoTun grow up...and stop acting like a child
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411A;
you KNOW your parents won't like it if you are on the computer after bedtime. Any more of this and you'll grow up to be an obnoxious self-opinionated aviation-wanabee tw*t with no concept of what's right or wrong and who enjoys the intellect of a slug and a personality to match.
Oh .... I see you're there already.
you KNOW your parents won't like it if you are on the computer after bedtime. Any more of this and you'll grow up to be an obnoxious self-opinionated aviation-wanabee tw*t with no concept of what's right or wrong and who enjoys the intellect of a slug and a personality to match.
Oh .... I see you're there already.
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TwoTun,
Sorry old boy, but with your attitude, can readily see just why BA management would want to dump you lot ASAP.
So, go have your so-called ballot...and go on out...see who cares.
Suspect you will not be missed....
Sorry old boy, but with your attitude, can readily see just why BA management would want to dump you lot ASAP.
So, go have your so-called ballot...and go on out...see who cares.
Suspect you will not be missed....
I am a figment of my own imagination
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Oh dear... Hovis... the art of a duel is to aim at the opponent, not shoot yourself in the foot. A very pertinant axiom about glass dwellings, it has however escaped your attention that I am not the one presently inside one and threatening to chuck bricks!
A hackneyed old line it may be, but that however does not detract from the basic truth of what was stated.
Interesting that issue seems to be about precedence, trouble is that what has been offered to others in the past in better times may not always be possible, and sometimes the bar comes lower despite our wish for it to only go up, and that is life.
A hackneyed old line it may be, but that however does not detract from the basic truth of what was stated.
Interesting that issue seems to be about precedence, trouble is that what has been offered to others in the past in better times may not always be possible, and sometimes the bar comes lower despite our wish for it to only go up, and that is life.