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Nige321......If there was a "Like" Button here at pprune....I would be using it right now in response to your Post!:D
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mel
Perfectly normal. The technique was originally intended for use from a restricted area where category "A" performance was required - ie land or fly away from a single engine failure. The reversing element was to allow the pilot to retain sight of the pad through the chin window as he climbed to the critical height from which he could dive on speed and fly away if an engine failed. Prior to that point a descent onto the still visible pad is accomplished on the remaining engine. Looks like it backed out into a tail wind too...? |
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....41d50a03ed.png
comparison 139 confined area t/o profile. Sorry if image quality poor. |
A tragic incident indeed and only a proper investigation will shed light on what happened. Looking at the crash site and given I think the wind was north, north westerly on that day. It looks like a down wind transition? Another hole in the cheese maybe. |
CatA/Class1/PerfA - whatever it’s called -as we all know here - any performance figures are invalid if you have a tailwind. condolances to all |
Originally Posted by dingo9
(Post 10294766)
A tragic incident indeed and only a proper investigation will shed light on what happened. Looking at the crash site and given I think the wind was north, north westerly on that day. It looks like a down wind transition? Another hole in the cheese maybe. |
Originally Posted by OvertHawk
(Post 10294811)
Unless the failure occurred whilst he was still in the up and back segment and before he had begun his transition into forward flight. In which case he would have been pointing into a NNW wind as would be expected (assuming that google earth image is North up.)
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If the alleged is true and this new aircraft did suffer a tail rotor failure of sorts, it begs the question, was this a material failure or maintenance?
T/O from the stadium will confuse the wind direction and only when clearing the bowl would the true wind affect the a/c. Whatever - an alleged TRF at a critical height (probably inside this twins dead mans curve, will almost certainly result in bad news. RiP to all souls onboard. |
Originally Posted by OvertHawk
(Post 10294811)
Unless the failure occurred whilst he was still in the up and back segment and before he had begun his transition into forward flight. In which case he would have been pointing into a NNW wind as would be expected (assuming that google earth image is North up.)
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Fixed wing pilot here, no speculation just purely interested...what is the procedure for a Tail rotor failure at low level like this?? What are the gotchas etc
Thanks |
Originally Posted by chopjock
(Post 10294830)
No I think you are confused. The video shows the helicopter backing up into wind with nose pointing down wind...
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Originally Posted by Livesinafield
(Post 10294847)
Fixed wing pilot here, no speculation just purely interested...what is the procedure for a Tail rotor failure at low level like this?? What are the gotchas etc
Thanks In reality, startle effect, low level, at night, its unimaginable.. |
Originally Posted by Livesinafield
(Post 10294847)
Fixed wing pilot here, no speculation just purely interested...what is the procedure for a Tail rotor failure at low level like this?? What are the gotchas etc
Thanks |
Originally Posted by Livesinafield
(Post 10294847)
Fixed wing pilot here, no speculation just purely interested...what is the procedure for a Tail rotor failure at low level like this?? What are the gotchas etc
Thanks To do all that, a considerable amount of height is required (500' plus but sure someone cleverer than me will correct) which, on current knowledge, wasn't there, and of course, there is the pilot reaction time to factor in, my experience is simulator based where I either knew it was coming or was highly tuned to something was coming. High power (collective) setting, 200' or so and no/little airspeed.....that would be a challenge, even if you knew it was coming. |
Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
(Post 10294848)
Inside a stadium (bowl) the wind direction can be unrelated to what is reported outside. |
Thanks for the info chaps, so I assume this is an event you practice in your yearly Sims? Like we do with V1 cuts...but as you say you know what's coming and you know exactly how it will behave...different game in the real world
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No so far away in 1998, the East Midlands Police Air Support Unit helicopter suffered a fatality based on a flawed night departure procedure. as a result it had to put in placed a safe departure and arrival procedure for operations so that there were external references and means collision avoidance for departure and arrivals at night. The report can be found at:
https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/euro...ely-2305-hours It strikes me if you need to reverse before going into transition, then departing out of a football ground is not the best idea. Ironically the surrounding area has multiple suitable sites for a dedicated LCFC heliport, and also being ideal for a heliport for the Leicester Royal Infirmary which currently does not have a dedicated heliport. Likewise a westerly prevailing wind departure over the river and meadows would avoid overflight of congested areas. |
Reverse before transition is a recommended profile for AW types. It's a good congested area profile based on OEI considerations but nothing can be written for drive failure (if this is a possible cause).
Yes it would be safer to depart from a great long runway free of obstacles but it's a helicopter. That's what they do. |
Would imagine that stadium has good cctv coverage so the chain of events is properly recorded. |
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