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-   -   UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/511282-uk-sar-2013-privatisation-new-thread.html)

ropedope 27th Mar 2013 13:35

The future of UK SAR post SAR(H)
 
I believe we now all know the future of UK SAR post SAR-H. So can we now close this thread. Possibly open one on where do I send my CV if I have p'@@ed people off over the last few years on this boring thread.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

jonnyloove 27th Mar 2013 13:42

Posts
 
I wonder out the advertised posts i.e. 50 X Winchmen 50 X Winch ops how many of the post will go to the guys and girls currently serving in UK Military SAR..?

Thanks all.

stilllearning 27th Mar 2013 14:56

thanks snakepit. That makes it clear. Have a nice day ...:D

Bap70 27th Mar 2013 14:59

Bristow SAR
 
Hi All,
Does anyone know what type of roster/shift pattern the current UK Civvy SAR
units work, or what pattern Bristow are likely to use??

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 15:42


I believe we now all know the future of UK SAR post SAR-H.
I don't think so.

The future is not clear until we work out a way of helping the customer's agent to understand 70% of the task they will be 'supervising' under their brand.

Rumour_Monger 27th Mar 2013 15:44

As an outsider can I put me two penny's worth in here, the MoD are feeding a line talking about a managed transition and the availability of SAR crews to transition over to Bristow`s, but reading between the lines I do not think it will be as straight forward, obviously the spec are from the DfT tender docs, but do they reflect the introduction of a new helicopter, The S-92 has been around for a while but with the AW 189 which is a new type.

Bristow`s specs are calling for "At least two hundred and fifty (250) hours on type except where previous glass cockpit experience can be demonstrated in which case this requirement may be reduced but will never be below one hundred (100) flying hours on type." isn`t this going to be something hard to achieve?
·

Thomas coupling 27th Mar 2013 16:32

There are still some stupid questions filtering thru, mainly because people can't be bothered to read thru this "boring" thread. I am guilty of that sometimes too:ugh:. So I will 'update' those latecomers and relieve them of the pain of reading so much stuff:

Bond got nought/nada/nuffink.
The ARCC decision is on hold due to the sensitivities surrounding a free Scotland and what might happen after the referendum. Expect to hear nothing until next year. My "personal" take on it:
IF Scotland remains part of Britain, then the ARCC will civilianise and move to Fareham where the MCA lives. MRS won't be far behind.

BALPA on MoD real estate..don't make me laugh. Why would the government allow a bunch of unionists onto mil territory to muddy the already sensitive waters? BALPA - The BA bit stands for British Airways...outside of this they are a waste of your monthly outgoings!:E

Ericferret/Genie the Greenie: You are not serious are you?? What do you think all these months of negotiations have been all about between the MoD and the tender companies? Where do you think Bristow is going to get its manpower if NOT from the mil??? Do you honestly think there are 200 aircrew sitting at home in civvy street waiting for the advert to come out? Of course the majority of ex mil SAR personel will transfer across to the new job (provided they have the relevant quals) and then Bristows will 'top up' with others from within their fraternity or from outsiders like CHC. Common sense appears to have krept in it seems!!! The whole "Managed Transition" process is designed around it.
A reminder too that the mil want rid of mil SAR. They want to reduce their troop numbers as per SDSR. Don't you remember?

And finally - any takers on what will happen to the Falklands. Perhaps the gov will hand it over to the Argentinian Navy:eek::eek:

ropedope 27th Mar 2013 17:59

The future is not clear until we work out a way of helping the customer's agent to understand 70% of the task they will be 'supervising' under their brand.
Jim,




Who are "WE" to be helping someone who has had a five year break in delivering part of the UK SAR for the last thirty years. If you believe they don't understand 70% of the task then WE are all up that creek without the paddle.

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 18:29

I am hoping that most of us here want this to work and work well. Those are the we.

The 70% is the typical level of Land SAR tasking that the MCA wants to believe will somehow go away. Bristow properly understand this stuff.

In the 2001 Provision and Coverage Report there was criticism of record-keeping because neither the MCA nor MoD-DASA reporting gave a full and satisfactory account of the SAR task in the UK.

The MCA did not differentiate between land, coastal and maritime. Why should they? Well, because different bodies have statutory responsibility for land and maritime, with coastal always being a bit of a fudge.

MoD-DASA reported as though the UK, Cyprus and the Falklands were all the same country. Not clever.

That prevents the data being properly compared and prevents it being merged to produce a complete picture of the UK Aero SAR workload.

When the update report was published in 2006, nothing had changed, and again there was criticism in the report.

When I last checked, nothing had changed.

This stuff has been sitting there on the MoD and MCA websites. Are they not embarrassed? Are they too thick to understand?

Hopefully, Bristow will say to the Coastguard, 'We can take care of that' and by 2017/18 we will actually know what we are paying for.

ropedope 27th Mar 2013 18:37

Thank you Jim, I have been enlightened, and it was a pleasurable experience. By which I mean eloquent and no bitchiness. Well done.:D:D

Lioncopter 27th Mar 2013 19:04

I think if you ask a few of the people on the civil SAR bases if Balpa muddy the waters you might get a slightly different take ;)

sightlesseyes 27th Mar 2013 20:01

TC
I think they'd easily get 100 winchmen (not winchwomen?) from current NHS paramedics, it's the 3 months experience in SAR that will be a stumbling block for them meaning that only current rear crew will be qualified to apply.

Surely at some point they will have to recruit ab-initios or their pool of skills will simply dry up?

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 20:14


Surely at some point they will have to recruit ab-initios or their pool of skills will simply dry up?
That's when this gets really interesting.

Macaco Norte 27th Mar 2013 21:48

I suppose once Bristow have redistrbuted its experienced SAR crews from their current bases to more favourable locations in the south, Mil SAR crews, once qualified, will have the pick of the rest, ie. Stornaway, Sumburgh, Inverness, Prestwick & maybe even Humberside.

TorqueOfTheDevil 27th Mar 2013 23:29


I guess the RAF always had a pool of experienced personnel to draw upon to fill their jobs. By this I mean RAF crews were born “ready qualified”

Everyone has to start somewhere otherwise the world would stop. Oh sorry I forgot – the world has stopped as far as old guard is concerned :ugh:
Oh dear. The point is that RAF rearcrew doing their first shift on a SAR flight will have had a year of dedicated SAR training at Valley (SARTU long course then Sea King OCU). This is on top of basic crewman training and most will also have done tours on SH. As a result, even those who are true ab initio have acquitted themselves extremely well in tricky SAROps in their first weeks and months on shift.

Could someone provide an idea of the proportion of civ rearcrew who have no previous mil experience, and what route those individuals took to get onto a civ SAR flight? I don't recall this being mentioned on here previously but I admit I haven't checked all 1400 posts...

Senior Pilot 27th Mar 2013 23:41

I've split the threads so that all discussion on this new thread relates to UK SAR from the award of the contract to Bristow. Previous discussion is still here for reference.

Let's not start the hamster wheel of previous discussions: any such posts will be moved over to the old thread, no need for them here :ok:

jimf671 28th Mar 2013 00:11


I suppose once Bristow have redistrbuted its experienced SAR crews from their current bases to more favourable locations in the south, Mil SAR crews, once qualified, will have the pick of the rest, ie. Stornaway, Sumburgh, Inverness, Prestwick & maybe even Humberside.
You're probably right, if you love posing.

If you love flying, I expect 189 out of Inverness is where it will be at.

farsouth 28th Mar 2013 00:16


once Bristow have redistrbuted its experienced SAR crews from their current bases to more favourable locations in the south
Most of the Bristow crews I knew in Sumburgh and Stornoway were there because they wanted to be - not everyone thinks the South of England is the garden of Eden...........

Bounce Bounce 28th Mar 2013 01:39


Oh dear. The point is that RAF rearcrew doing their first shift on a SAR flight will have had a year of dedicated SAR training at Valley (SARTU long course then Sea King OCU). This is on top of basic crewman training and most will also have done tours on SH. As a result, even those who are true ab initio have acquitted themselves extremely well in tricky SAROps in their first weeks and months on shift.

Could someone provide an idea of the proportion of civ rearcrew who have no previous mil experience, and what route those individuals took to get onto a civ SAR flight? I don't recall this being mentioned on here previously but I admit I haven't checked all 1400 posts...
Open your eyes!!!!!!!!!!

heli1 28th Mar 2013 07:46

Just picking up the earlier post from Rumourmonger It would seem AW139 experience will count for the big brother 189. AW make much of the commonality between the two types and CHC already have SAR crews able to transfer . Bristow is also flying AW139s and so s SARTU .


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