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-   -   UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/511282-uk-sar-2013-privatisation-new-thread.html)

[email protected] 28th Mar 2013 07:58

“We will introduce new helicopters to the UK equipped with the latest Search and Rescue technology that will deliver unprecedented levels and quality of SAR coverage across the country. The existing expertise and local SAR knowledge is immensely valuable and we will ensure that this is not lost.

“Bristow Helicopters Ltd knows the responsibilities that go with providing this service and we are committed to working in full partnership with the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and ensuring a smooth transition process and the long-term continued delivery of a world class SAR operation in the UK.”
Straight from the Bristows web-site - they have set out their stall so shall we wait to see what the details are - they have a fairly major task ahead and no-one can afford for it not to work.

junglie jock 28th Mar 2013 13:07

Managed path
I was just wondering if anyone has any more info about the managed path? Is this a legitimate offer or just a way of our masters keeping bums or SAR seats until the end so their is no exodus of SAR qualified types? Would it be best to get IR done now to be ready or will Bristows provide? Will people already in Bristows be able to use seniority to get their choice of bases if they fit the requirements etc. I know details are still a little vague but I don't see any point on hanging on till the end if i can leave sooner and get more of a chance of getting a job where I want, although I have heard the Outer Hebrides are quite appealing!

jimf671 28th Mar 2013 14:31

So, as an example, on 1st April 2015 at Inverness, in the back, would they want a guy from Den Helder or a guy who has spent years being dragged across rocks all over the NW Highlands and Grampians?

Reading the piece that Crab has quoted (or the DfT stuff), surely the latter has got to be the case.

onesquaremetre 28th Mar 2013 17:05

Even the true blue free marketeers of the Telegraph seem to have figured out what's going on here.

Cartoon - Telegraph



junglie jock 28th Mar 2013 18:11

If your reply was towards my question Jim, I see no drama for the rear crew who are trained as Paramedics getting a job in the place they want. To be honest, I see them being in more demand that the pilots. My question was more from the front seat point of view relating to training times/hours building etc. There are a lot of guys out there with the pre-requisite SAR hours and Glass cockpit time in the civil world. What I am asking is will it be a disadvantage to stick it out to the end in the military rather than jump now and get established with Bristows. i have a feeling this managed path maybe isn't all it is cracked up to be. :confused:

Al-bert 28th Mar 2013 19:05

i have a feeling this managed path maybe isn't all it is cracked up to be. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/confused.gif

then think of it as 'crazy paving' :cool:

hueyracer 28th Mar 2013 19:12

There is no chance for military personnel to "jump over", as they require a minimum of 100 hours ON TYPE (for Captains-on AW189 or S92)...

jimf671 28th Mar 2013 19:31

I refer you to the statement of our learned friend during a previous session.


roundwego 28th Mar 2013 19:35

There is no chance for military personnel to "jump over", as they require a minimum of 100 hours ON TYPE (for Captains-on AW189 or S92)...
Oh yes there is!

A type rating and a couple of months on oil and gas flights ex Aberdeen or Scatsta will get them to 100 hours very quickly on the S92. Not difficult to get AW time either. I am sure BHL will facilitate this very easily if required.

Fareastdriver 28th Mar 2013 20:55

Most of the Bristow crews I knew in Sumburgh and Stornoway were there because they wanted to
and moved over to CHC to stay there. Now they will move back.

Should Bristow need experienced SAR S92 captains thay will either funnel experiencd SAR captains or an experienced S92 captains though the system as fast as possible.

Ticked all the boxes 28th Mar 2013 21:58

So how do the current coastguard crews plan to become Nvg trained and experienced? I am sure some of the ex mil pilots will dust off the rust pretty quickly but even some of them may not have used Nvg before. It is a hugely demanding and different skill set in the SAR world. I fully understand the TUPE rules that are in play but will it be sensible to suddenly have crews with very limited nvg experience suddenly together on shift? Perhaps a safer bet would be to have a mixture of the managed transition crews in and amongst the current civilian crews.
I have the upmost respect for the coastguard crews. My point is merely a safety question as it takes a long time to become comfortable on nvgs and there may well be quite a few current sar captains without any Nvg time.
Personally I think it is very sad to be losing military sar. But I also see it as a great opportunity to mix strengths and overcome weaknesses that exist across all 3 current sar providers. If the right people are recruited then there will be a potent mix of experience and skill across the new sar flights around the uk. Hopefully that should provide two things; a great atmosphere to work in and a first class service to the public.
As long as the mil guys accept it is a new way of doing things and leave their attitude of 'we used to do it like this which was the best way' behind then I am sure we will all get on great!

jimf671 28th Mar 2013 22:26

So how do the current coastguard crews plan to become Nvg trained and experienced? ... ...
For the crews at Sumburgh and Stornoway, by this time next year, this will be sorted.

At Lee and Portland, I do not know.

Variable Load 28th Mar 2013 23:02

At Lee and Portland, I do not know.
So why would CHC train the crews at Lee and Portland for NVG use? No chance springs to mind!

Thomas coupling 29th Mar 2013 02:19

It's not 'Managed Path" anymore it's: "Managed Transition" :ugh:

Current Mil crews will not be allowed a bespoke PVR unless they are offered a firm position in the new scheme. Those who elect to leave and NOT join Bristow's will be left to fend for themselves and do a normal PVR process.

Secondly, recruitment is NOW and the mil SAR encumbents have yet to await the outcome of what will happen to their pensions if they do benefit from a bespoke PVR and the results from this won't emerge before June (ish) I am told!!! So some nail biting there.:{
Finally, hueyracer, it isn't 100hrs on type it's 250hrs :eek:

This could scupper the whole deal, couldn't it? So what does this line in the advert really mean then?
Does it say: Bristows is confident there will be a controlled exodus from other aspects of its business into SAR, from currently qualified S92 drivers, which can then be filled by (possibly) mil sar crews leaving the service or will they realise they have over egged it and climb down / accelerate current mil crews thru to a lower 'type' qual entry level?
Currently NO mil crews can comply with this qual..............:ugh:

NVG is not a dark art (excuse the pun), it will easily be absorbed on the job. All mil crews are NVD qual'd. So they won't be a problem and the civvy crew will do OJ training. It is VERY straight fwd.

PS: I see Jamie is advertising for S92 SAR crews in Brunei and his requirement is a lower entry gate than this requirement. Better money too :D

212man 29th Mar 2013 04:42

PS: I see Jamie is advertising for S92 SAR crews in Brunei and his requirement is a lower entry gate than this requirement. Better money too
Yes - it's a pity my thread highlighting that got 'modded' into the depths of the 'Rotary Jobs' thread so quickly! :(

[email protected] 29th Mar 2013 08:05

NVG is not a dark art
true TC but it is one that needs respect as complacency on NVG, especially in tricky terrain and poor weather, can be a killer.

The on the job training will be sufficient as long as there is a proper ground training package behind it so that the physiological problems and technological shortcomings of NVG are properly understood by those who are new to them.

Additionally there needs to be adequate continuation training to ensure that crews are setting them up and focusing them properly using something like a Hoffman box. NVG are often seen as a 'strap on and go' item that turn night into day - that works on a nice night in easy conditions but you need training to get the best out of the goggles.

Junglie Jock - as TC has said, the managed transition is the way to get directly from milSAR to SARH - what concessions will be made in terms of hours and IR we have yet to see - otherwise you have to apply in direct competition with the rest of the world which will mean sorting your own IR and possibly type conversion.

Geoffersincornwall 29th Mar 2013 08:12

139 = 189 ???
I don't think so. You had better check that a differences course will cover it. I reckon another TR is a strong probability. New engines and new avionics/displays usually mean a new type.

Certainly 139 folks will have a head start for the other systems are very similar but not identical.


onesquaremetre 29th Mar 2013 21:02

Nice Margins
Bristow.com Financial News

Under the terms of this new SAR contract, Bristow Helicopters currently anticipates earning approximately $2.5 billion in revenue. Jonathan Baliff, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, added, "We believe that these contract terms and conditions are transformative from an operational and financial standpoint for our company. The number of helicopters operated, combined with the revenue and earnings generated under this contract, will create both a larger and lower risk company going forward."

"The total capital requirement for this project is expected to be approximately $1 billion, much of which is dedicated to the acquisition of 22 of the most technologically advanced, SAR-equipped S-92 and AW189 helicopters ever built.
Nice and cheaply does it.

Rigga 30th Mar 2013 00:56

I think it was Alan Sheppard (1st US Astronaut, 1961) who said: "When I got into space I couldn't help thinking that all the parts of the craft were made by the cheapest bidders!"

Didn't do them any harm.

More lookout 30th Mar 2013 08:57

Time to move on. MIL SAR is over, the true test is the test of time. The crews that will make up civ SAR I suspect will be no less determined to provide the best response to those in danger. I had a great time as a part of RAF SAR, but it could never last in these times of cost austerity. It became top heavy and expensive, just look at the shiney SAR force HQ built at valley. How much did that all cost?

Focus on the future.

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