AH-64 Apache
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Wow..
All I wanted to know was should I ask to do an exchange tour. I have subsequently been told that there are 4 Apache QHIs resigned amongst others including some Apache pilots in staff jobs. I would be happy doing a line shag slot but would be equally keen to fill a QHI slot.
Having said all that I am now worried as I have obviuosly have hit a bit of a nerve. Glad the RN doing well, I do like to think the RAF would be able to impart something to the development of this great aircraft, maybe you disagree.
All I wanted to know was should I ask to do an exchange tour. I have subsequently been told that there are 4 Apache QHIs resigned amongst others including some Apache pilots in staff jobs. I would be happy doing a line shag slot but would be equally keen to fill a QHI slot.
Having said all that I am now worried as I have obviuosly have hit a bit of a nerve. Glad the RN doing well, I do like to think the RAF would be able to impart something to the development of this great aircraft, maybe you disagree.
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Crab Beefer, you havent exactly hit a raw nerve, so one person bites, not surprisingly as you lot continually bait such people. Im sure AHQHI is feeling a little bit miffed after countless bouts of said sarcasm. But his bite doesnt constitute a landslide vitory against AH does it?
I agree with you however that maybe an exchange RAF Pilot might be worthwhile, but will you find an NCO Pilot!
Happy Christmas
Muttley out
I agree with you however that maybe an exchange RAF Pilot might be worthwhile, but will you find an NCO Pilot!
Happy Christmas
Muttley out
Arctic socks, can't beat them. The roll mat has never let me down either. In fact the only thing that has let me down is my own expectations of kit as it is introduced.
(Is that irony, sarcacm, satire or wit? Please could an educated person advise. Crab Beefer perhaps?)
(Is that irony, sarcacm, satire or wit? Please could an educated person advise. Crab Beefer perhaps?)
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I am sure the RAF would add to the apache program.
Should he be FJ or rotary?
CB - as SQHI656 says of those that are going, some will stay linked to the program so no huge loss.
Suggest you speak to your manning branch and put in a request to do exchange.
Should he be FJ or rotary?
CB - as SQHI656 says of those that are going, some will stay linked to the program so no huge loss.
Suggest you speak to your manning branch and put in a request to do exchange.
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All us blue-jobs would love a go of the Apache - Very capable and, it has to be said, cool as ****. I'm sure with our limited experience of helo ops and weapon delivery, we could through hard work and sending only the very best candidates, contribute in some small way. It would appear that we need to work on our bitterness and bait-taking abilities though, since this is obviously part of the job....
Just kidding, chaps - put down your dark visors and go and impress some girls and have a happy christmas too!
Just kidding, chaps - put down your dark visors and go and impress some girls and have a happy christmas too!
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SarMonkey,
Now now my dear chap - no need to add to add to the melee! Although it grieves me to admit, Front Seater is actually right - and although a humble civvie I know that us light blue bretheren have not actually got anything endorsed by our airships and so what do they (Air Component) actually want Apache to do for us?
We have not included or requested them in any JFACC orbat, where as the JFMCC and JFLCC have and have the associated endorsed doctrine to back it up.
As you well know in a cash strapped MoD, unless it is endorsed there is no requirement, no requirement then no funding and with out funding there is no capability. All of the TLT, SAXON SHIELD, WICKHAM WARRIOR stuff is all done by mates, for mates through the back door and not through any ATO/ATM tasking from a CAOC.
So it has absolutely nothing to do with experience in helo ops or weapon delivery skills - as although I am sure there is experience out there it appears that the Pongos are doing a pretty good job at training their own QWIs and Weapon Instructors. As to the remainder of the Air Component stuff, again just before I left I observed the AH EAGLE STRIKE exercise where it was pleasing to see the brown jobs fully up to speed on COMAO, FRA, DCA, OCA blah blah and more to the point willing to listen to the SH guys during the planning process - now that is a step change from the old Army way of doing business!
And ultimately, regardless of the hot air about who should fly it (done to death in so many other threads, so please not start it here!) the bottom line with the Lynx Fleet being reduced, Gazelles joining history and according to the press releases only 48 frontline AH, then every single seat in any Army aircraft is high value for their own Corps and future career progressions.
But as I have always said on numerous occasions, in this resource and cash strapped MoD lets stop party politicking for individual Service gains and why not just accept the inevitable and stop faffing and having a protracted cuffuffle and go Joint - properly and not in the half baked attempt that it currently is.
Now now my dear chap - no need to add to add to the melee! Although it grieves me to admit, Front Seater is actually right - and although a humble civvie I know that us light blue bretheren have not actually got anything endorsed by our airships and so what do they (Air Component) actually want Apache to do for us?
We have not included or requested them in any JFACC orbat, where as the JFMCC and JFLCC have and have the associated endorsed doctrine to back it up.
As you well know in a cash strapped MoD, unless it is endorsed there is no requirement, no requirement then no funding and with out funding there is no capability. All of the TLT, SAXON SHIELD, WICKHAM WARRIOR stuff is all done by mates, for mates through the back door and not through any ATO/ATM tasking from a CAOC.
So it has absolutely nothing to do with experience in helo ops or weapon delivery skills - as although I am sure there is experience out there it appears that the Pongos are doing a pretty good job at training their own QWIs and Weapon Instructors. As to the remainder of the Air Component stuff, again just before I left I observed the AH EAGLE STRIKE exercise where it was pleasing to see the brown jobs fully up to speed on COMAO, FRA, DCA, OCA blah blah and more to the point willing to listen to the SH guys during the planning process - now that is a step change from the old Army way of doing business!
And ultimately, regardless of the hot air about who should fly it (done to death in so many other threads, so please not start it here!) the bottom line with the Lynx Fleet being reduced, Gazelles joining history and according to the press releases only 48 frontline AH, then every single seat in any Army aircraft is high value for their own Corps and future career progressions.
But as I have always said on numerous occasions, in this resource and cash strapped MoD lets stop party politicking for individual Service gains and why not just accept the inevitable and stop faffing and having a protracted cuffuffle and go Joint - properly and not in the half baked attempt that it currently is.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
As any military person will know, there is not a single piece of equipment, from the humble sock to the super-snazzy jet fighter, that has worked as advertised at any stage of its time in service.
And ultimately, regardless of the hot air about who should fly it (done to death in so many other threads, so please not start it here!) the bottom line with the Lynx Fleet being reduced, Gazelles joining history and according to the press releases only 48 frontline AH, then every single seat in any Army aircraft is high value for their own Corps and future career progressions.
Is it true that they are the 'safest' TA unit to be a part of, bearing in mind present TA deployments?
Just wondered!
SS
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7 Regt is safe as houses and picking up a lot of the admin tasking and 6 Regt AAC (TA) has/is just forming as a ground AH support Regt based out of Bury St Edmunds.
HEDP
HEDP
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It's been said before, but will bear saying again. Like any new bit of kit, there is a honeymoon period, followed by a reality check.
When the Scout came into service, contrary to urban myth, it was such a piece of Sh1t, that the light-blue jobs bought Alouette 2 off the shelf so that they had something to fly. Much, much later was the old brussel sprout considered the landrover of the skies - and even then it was rumoured that on completion of a Scout AH1 conversion the successful candidate filled in a Green Endorsement but left the date blank - it was not a case of if, but when, the mighty Nimbus would fail...
The Apache is a mighty piece of kit, and is currently operated by the leading experts (at least in Europe), at direct-fire weapons from rotary aircraft. Let us hope that they do not continue to leach manpower of the quality that they seem content to do so. Several very fine young men indeed appear to have just had enough, including one Sandhurst Sword of Honour Winner (how's the sword case JVB). The other two that I know of are also a huge loss to a fine Corps.
When the Scout came into service, contrary to urban myth, it was such a piece of Sh1t, that the light-blue jobs bought Alouette 2 off the shelf so that they had something to fly. Much, much later was the old brussel sprout considered the landrover of the skies - and even then it was rumoured that on completion of a Scout AH1 conversion the successful candidate filled in a Green Endorsement but left the date blank - it was not a case of if, but when, the mighty Nimbus would fail...
The Apache is a mighty piece of kit, and is currently operated by the leading experts (at least in Europe), at direct-fire weapons from rotary aircraft. Let us hope that they do not continue to leach manpower of the quality that they seem content to do so. Several very fine young men indeed appear to have just had enough, including one Sandhurst Sword of Honour Winner (how's the sword case JVB). The other two that I know of are also a huge loss to a fine Corps.
Indeed - that compo can widger was an engineering masterpiece! One of the few military things which actually did what it was supposed to.
As did the old 'gorilla snot' glue for joining maps together.
As did the old 'gorilla snot' glue for joining maps together.
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Aytoo, the Sandhurst Sword of Honour Winner that you speak of hasn't had enough of the Apache, I hear it's the thought of no more Apache flying that he's not happy with. Indeed it's the same old Army Air Corps Officer career profile that a lot of bright young Army Officers have to come to terms with, or leave the Corps. I dare say that for the first time this profile is coming to bite the AAC on the @rse. It now takes too long to train a replacement Apache Flight Commander, to the point that Apache CTT (already pushed to the limit) won't be able to keep the numbers of Apache pilots up to the required quantity! At a time when the requirement is for the number of pilots to increase, it makes no sense to remove pilots from a flying role at a time when this fledgling pragram is trying to grow.
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Good point about YOs leaving due to career path restrictions.
Are these 3 leaving all officer Apache pilots?
Are they all QHIs?
I am told it is more than 3? (4 from Dishforth and 3 from Wallop)??which doesn't seem like many to me but when it is out of a small number I guess it does make a difference.
I thought the PA spine was designed to keep these guys in? or does the AAC army career path still come first?
I genuinelly hope the AAC doesn't blow Apache and handit on a plate to another service who will be able to man it...
I am due to go on Apache CTT soon and am interested if I am going to get the flying I am being promised or whetehr it is more of the same but leaving me even less competent as I will have even less time to get to grips with a more complicated platform. Why won't they let us get good?
Are these 3 leaving all officer Apache pilots?
Are they all QHIs?
I am told it is more than 3? (4 from Dishforth and 3 from Wallop)??which doesn't seem like many to me but when it is out of a small number I guess it does make a difference.
I thought the PA spine was designed to keep these guys in? or does the AAC army career path still come first?
I genuinelly hope the AAC doesn't blow Apache and handit on a plate to another service who will be able to man it...
I am due to go on Apache CTT soon and am interested if I am going to get the flying I am being promised or whetehr it is more of the same but leaving me even less competent as I will have even less time to get to grips with a more complicated platform. Why won't they let us get good?
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Fenestronuk, if you want to see what life in an Attack Sqn is like pop up to Dishforth if you get the chance. You could also go to 673 Sqn at Wallop, but bare in mind that they a funded by ATRA, the 673 Sqn crewroom cost more than 656 Sqns hangar!! Only joking but they are well looked after.
The program needs top quality individuals who want to fly the Apache because the Apache is what they want to fly, without that want, you'll fall by the way-side. It is hard graft, no two ways about it, and it's a long old haul, but every time you sit in the cockpit (front or rear seat) you'll grin from ear to ear and when you let rip with the M230 for the first time, your world will rock.
Give us a call on 94713 4669 and have a chat.
Merry Christmas
Tom
P.S. Not sure about who has or who hasn't resigned, but it's sure getting people talking!
The program needs top quality individuals who want to fly the Apache because the Apache is what they want to fly, without that want, you'll fall by the way-side. It is hard graft, no two ways about it, and it's a long old haul, but every time you sit in the cockpit (front or rear seat) you'll grin from ear to ear and when you let rip with the M230 for the first time, your world will rock.
Give us a call on 94713 4669 and have a chat.
Merry Christmas
Tom
P.S. Not sure about who has or who hasn't resigned, but it's sure getting people talking!
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TRF,
Looking at the timing of your post, you MAY just be excused for attempting to crowbar this thread into the traditional crab v pongo slanging match - but I doubt it! There are very serious issues being discussed here, but the ownership of said capable piece of hardware ought not to be one of them.
All right then, at your level - just how much experience has the SH force got in direct fire weapons against armour or even SSVs? Really? As much as all that?
ps - do you fly the front or the back cyclic
Looking at the timing of your post, you MAY just be excused for attempting to crowbar this thread into the traditional crab v pongo slanging match - but I doubt it! There are very serious issues being discussed here, but the ownership of said capable piece of hardware ought not to be one of them.
All right then, at your level - just how much experience has the SH force got in direct fire weapons against armour or even SSVs? Really? As much as all that?
ps - do you fly the front or the back cyclic
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Can someone confirm as QHI656 states - who has resigned?
Can someone confirm the following have resigned (not including those chopped):
3 (BA, PD, SG) ex A model QHIs in USA in the early days
1 (KM) to industry
1 (TD) to Shawbury DHFS as FBH QHI
RQHI 9 Reg (MG)
Ops Offr 9 Reg (DW)
Adjt 9 Reg (RT) - not sure if he is Apache trained
Ex OC 673 Sqn (NW)
Ex SSM 673 Sqn (SW)
Rumour of RN exchange pilot (SD) too
Rumour of one member of AMTAT (CW or CE?)
Reg Flt Comd (JVB)?
This can not be good news for the program at this stage.
What I want to know is why? and what can we do about it? particularly as alot of these QHIs have a great deal of experience that we should not be loosing before we have even finished fielding Apache.
Positive proposals only but obviously appreciate the negatives will address the why question. Think broadly and yes ownership may be one solution but I doubt it.
I may be in a position to try and help.
Can someone confirm the following have resigned (not including those chopped):
3 (BA, PD, SG) ex A model QHIs in USA in the early days
1 (KM) to industry
1 (TD) to Shawbury DHFS as FBH QHI
RQHI 9 Reg (MG)
Ops Offr 9 Reg (DW)
Adjt 9 Reg (RT) - not sure if he is Apache trained
Ex OC 673 Sqn (NW)
Ex SSM 673 Sqn (SW)
Rumour of RN exchange pilot (SD) too
Rumour of one member of AMTAT (CW or CE?)
Reg Flt Comd (JVB)?
This can not be good news for the program at this stage.
What I want to know is why? and what can we do about it? particularly as alot of these QHIs have a great deal of experience that we should not be loosing before we have even finished fielding Apache.
Positive proposals only but obviously appreciate the negatives will address the why question. Think broadly and yes ownership may be one solution but I doubt it.
I may be in a position to try and help.