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Brexit

Old 28th Jan 2021, 09:33
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Has anyone been brave enough to read and decipher?
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Old 28th Jan 2021, 10:46
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Same again View Post
Has anyone been brave enough to read and decipher?
That page and the documents have been there for a few weeks now. What I can't work out for sure is what has changed, as EASA sent out an 'update' notification this morning.

Does anyone know what has been amended or added? I think it might be the Working Arrangement with Switzerland.
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 12:09
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Same again View Post
Has anyone been brave enough to read and decipher?
If you are referring to the Trade Agreement, yes I have read the AVSAF part. As stated on the EASA website, there is a clear statement and mechanism for the mutual recognition of Compliance findings and Certificates of each party (this includes each others FCL Licences). However, the statement refers to the "Annexes" of which the only one in the detailed list that has been issued concerns certification of aircraft and components. Now I am trying to not be cynical as I slide gently towards my 6th decade, however, I suspect the very large AIRBUS FW component industry in the UK may have caused France to stamps its "pied" to ensure UK wings get glued to European fuselages.

In my SOLI Transfer process, someone in "the system" told me that UK CAA made best efforts for this mutual recognition to be in place. However, to facilitate this the UK had to agree to be bound by certain European Legislation (otherwise no certainty of compliance is assured). Despite the fact the UK is legally bound by many treaties already, such as the ICAO Chicago Convention, NATO etc the UK Negotiating team were not empowered to agree to be bound by the necessary legislation. Hence, the annexes relevant to FCL etc are not issued.

I believe it is for this reason that neither the UK CAA nor EASA are able to make any statements relevant to future co-operation and specifically whether these annexes will ever be issued.

UK CAA meanwhile, treated like a mushroom by the politicians, ended up agreeing to unilateral recognition of EU Members FCLs for a 2 year period and also have made a fast track process for those EU members caught up in the debacle to get UK National Licences if and when they need them. Of course that is good news for all our fellow EU Rotorheads who have made their home and lives in the UK working for UK AOCs.For those of us on the opposite side of that fence....well lets say the Big Rabbit got F**ked!

For my own experience, the UK CAA were extremely helpful is facilitating my SOLI Transfer. This process means I give up my UK Part-FCL Licence. However, they have made a commitment to a simple pathway in April for those of us who had to Transfer to be re-issued with a UK National licence once again.

I have to say that I was a great advocate of EASA. I believe they simplified a whole range of protocols and procedures to our benefit even if it seemed at some time to do otherwise. Much of the regulations and rules originating in dear old Blighty.

My wife just received her new "Blue" Passport, (I believe made in France) and my VW Toureg did not self destruct on my driveway at midnight on 31/12/2020. So maybe in a few years we will look back and see a small storm in a very small teacup. Who really knows what the bejesus is going on anyway!
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Old 30th Jan 2021, 12:16
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Variable Load View Post
That page and the documents have been there for a few weeks now. What I can't work out for sure is what has changed, as EASA sent out an 'update' notification this morning.

Does anyone know what has been amended or added? I think it might be the Working Arrangement with Switzerland.
Could be the Norwegian statement they are referring to.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 09:03
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Having come late to the party in discovering this issue...can anyone recommend what EU state is the best/most simple to transfer my licence to?

Thanks
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:21
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99 View Post
Having come late to the party in discovering this issue...can anyone recommend what EU state is the best/most simple to transfer my licence to?

Thanks
I would say France, but i don´t have my licence there. Just saying from some feedback i got. seems that you can do a lot online and via the postal office. Fast replying and diligent to solve problems.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:37
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99 View Post
Having come late to the party in discovering this issue...can anyone recommend what EU state is the best/most simple to transfer my licence to?

Thanks
If you currently hold a UK licence, unfortunately you are not just late but you cannot join the party.

It is no longer possible to use the SOLI transfer process from the UK to another EASA state. This was only possible prior to 1st January 2021.

The EU-UK Trade and Cooperation deal does allow for reciprocity on certificates (read licences), however feedback at the moment indicates that EASA won't have anything in place this year. There's also no indication how difficult EASA will make the process or what additional requirements they may insist on e.g. resitting exams, etc.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 11:18
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Hargreaves99. I think like many of us there was an assumption that there would be some kind of reciprocity between UK and EU in terms of licensing but sadly that is not the case. The UK has agreed to allow EASA licences to be used to fly G-reg in UK but EASA will not now recognise UK licences that are now regraded as 'third country'. So as Variable Load said you are too late.

Also it appears that you cannot even attempt to convert your UK licence to an EASA licence as there is no such animal as a 'UK licence' at the moment until the CAA get around to issuing one. Meanwhile our EASA licensed friends can fly in UK for 2 years and then get a 'free' UK licence issued to them - and they get to keep their own EASA licence.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 11:42
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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ok, so.... if I am offered a job in an EU country (flying an EU registered aircraft), and I have a UK issued EASA ATPL(H)...what do I do?

CAA website states this:

UK-issued Part-FCL licences will not be valid to operate EU-registered aircraft.

To continue operating EU-registered aircraft, you may seek a licence validation from any of the EASA Competent Authorities, which would be valid for aircraft registered in any EASA Member State.

We recommend that you speak to the relevant NAA as soon as possible about the process for achieving a validation of your UK issued Part-FCL licence.

Alternatively, you may undertake a State of Licence Issue transfer. This means transferring your licence from the UK to an EASA member state.

To transfer a Part FCL to a new State of Licence, a request to transfer your licence and a separate request to transfer your medical records must be submitted to the CAA. In addition, a request to become the applicant’s new State of Licence must be submitted to the receiving NAA.

An application cannot be progressed until all three of these requests along with supporting documentation and appropriate fees have been submitted.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 12:04
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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You will not be be eligible as you do not have an EASA licence anymore. So as you no longer have the right to work in EU and no longer have an EASA licence you will not be eligible - much the same as any Third Country citizen.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 12:14
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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ok, thanks. But why does the CAA website say otherwise?
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:09
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure - it may have been good advice last year but I have been researching options and - although I have not tried every State - the ones that I have all sing from the same sheet - "You no longer have an EASA licence (from 01.01.21) so you cannot request SOLI transfer."

The UK EASA licence is now effectively only valid in UK or for flying G-reg outside UK. To operate anywhere else you will need a validation of your UK CAA licence (when you get one issued). A validation is normally an Air Law exam of the country you want to fly in plus a flight test plus a work visa. I suspect that it will not be quite that straightforward when dealing with our 'friends and partners in EU'.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:53
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Can any EU state currently validate a UK-issued EASA licence?
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 14:40
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Well you are in limbo-land as you don't have an EASA licence so cannot convert with SOLI and you don't yet have a UK CAA licence. Go ahead and try but I think you will find out what I have just wasted 2 weeks of my life to discover. You still have an ICAO licence so can apply for validation of that in most countries outside EU but in terms of EU employment where you need an EASA licence, your UK EASA licence at the moment is worthless as it is neither EASA - nor UK as yet.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 15:09
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Mmm...what a pain.

But given most helicopter pilot jobs in Europe require the applicant to speak the language, it probably won't affect us much.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 21:54
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Same again View Post
Also it appears that you cannot even attempt to convert your UK licence to an EASA licence as there is no such animal as a 'UK licence' at the moment until the CAA get around to issuing one. .
Not technically true. That piece of paper that last year was an EASA licence is now a UK licence. If you were to have a change of address or a new Type Rating, etc the CAA will send you a licence that didn't say EASA on it.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 22:21
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Theoretically yes. But the CAA do not expect to be issuing new UK CAA licences (dark blue covers I would imagine) until April 2021. So if you are not changing address or have a rating change then you will still have a non-existent UK EASA licence - that the EU do not recognise - and that you cannot use to validate your UK CAA with an EASA State.
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Old 6th Feb 2021, 01:41
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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I've been hit by this as a commercial balloon pilot. We were all pushed into getting the shiny new UK EASA BPL(Balloon Pilots Licence) at the back end of 2019 as we were informed we could no longer fly commercially after April 2020. This we were told would future proof us and allow us to play in Europe too. For another 35 quid we could keep our old UK CPLs for use in countries that accept them(Such as Myanmar where I spend my winters).

Anyway, now my lovely piece of A4 is now just expensive bog roll as I live in Germany and fly the summers in France.

Luckily I still have a French national licence which I'm currently transferring. It expired in June last year as I'd let it lapse due to the new UK licence. I was told by our man on the inside not to even mention the fact that I have a UK EASA licence and just to provide proof that I'd completed the requirements for the revalidation of my French licence and they'd then issue me an EASA equivalent on the back of it...However I suspect even the very friendly and easy going staff in the DSAC office in Marignane will find something that doesn't line up...
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Old 6th Feb 2021, 23:49
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Same again View Post
Theoretically yes. But the CAA do not expect to be issuing new UK CAA licences (dark blue covers I would imagine) until April 2021. So if you are not changing address or have a rating change then you will still have a non-existent UK EASA licence - that the EU do not recognise - and that you cannot use to validate your UK CAA with an EASA State.
Sorry Same Again you are wrong, you do have a UK licence. The colour of the plastic cover is irrelevant.

The lack of EASA reciprocity is nothing to do with the licence you hold, or the CAA. This is bound up in political dogma in the EU.
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Old 7th Feb 2021, 11:37
  #80 (permalink)  
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The lack of EASA reciprocity is nothing to do with the licence you hold, or the CAA. This is bound up in political dogma in the EU.
I think you may find it was the UK that voted to become a third country. As everyone apparently knew what they were voting for, then it follows that they knew what being a third country meant. The degree of hardness of the brexit chosen (and for the purposes of this thread, the decision to leave EASA), was a deliberate choice of the party elected into parliament with an 80 seat majority.
So I would say that it is far more to do with the political dogma of the governing party in Westminster than it is the political dogma of the EU
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