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Brexit

Old 22nd Jan 2021, 14:21
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Same again View Post
In practical terms - I have just been informed by an EU based operator that they cannot offer me a contract until I have converted my (now) UK ATPL(H) to an EASA licence. I think many of us had assumed (never a good idea) that there would be some form of mutual recognition. It seems that recognition is only one-way at the moment and that EASA licensed pilots can fly G reg for another 2 years but UK pilots cannot fly EASA reg from 1st January (quelle surprise!). Maybe a I should try the European Court of Justice ;-)

You are confusing two things here:

One is the agreement between two authorities; the other the reaction of one company...

See it from the company pov:
They hire you with your UK license, then EASA decided that UK licenses are not EASA licenses, and hence UK licensed pilots cannot fly EASA registered machines.
Now the company had already invested money in your hiring process and training.....and they will need to lay you off, and start looking for another candidate...

Would you go that route-or would you rather hire an EASA licensed pilot from the getgo?

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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 14:26
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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UK issued (ex-EASA) licences are not automatically recognised in EASA member states to fly EASA aircraft. I've been explicitly told by the Swiss FOCA that a UK issued licence is treated as a "third country" licence and as such would require a case-by-case application for a limited time validation to be issued. The recognition is not mutual. I assume the same applies for other EASA member states but your mileage may vary.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 16:43
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I don't believe that I am confusing the situation. In my particular case the employment was be a short term contract in EU which I cannot be considered for because my UK licence from 1st Jan is non-EASA and is regarded as a 'third country' licence. Meanwhile EASA licence holders can fly in UK for up to 2 years during which time (I am told) they can obtain a UK CAA licence without taking any exams. Seems not only British fishermen were shafted in the 'deal'.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 18:05
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I'd like to draw everyone attention to the fact the validation allows to operate "G" aircraft only outside UK airspace

Quote from certificate of validation:

How will this be applied:
The United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) renders valid, for the purpose of operating an aircraft on the United Kingdom “G” register outside of United Kingdom airspace, any Part-FCL pilot licence ...
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 18:09
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Well I think we all know that EASA licenced pilots are flying G registered aircraft in UK airspace so there must be some other caveat that allows that.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 18:19
  #26 (permalink)  
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This surely cannot be a surprise to anyone?
In every PPRuNe, facebook or twitter interaction I have seen regarding brexit. The one thing people who voted leave were united about and always keen to stress is that they knew what they were voting for.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 18:28
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting. The separate validation for Swiss EASA licence holders allows the operation of G reg aircraft both inside and outside UK airspace. I was wondering why there were two separate validations and now it makes sense. Here's the extract for those curious:

The CAA hereby renders valid, for the purpose of operating an aircraft on the United Kingdom “G” register within and outside of UK airspace, such Part-FCL pilot licences that were issued in accordance with Swiss Law by FOCA, and which continue to be effective on and after 31 December 2020 by virtue of Official Record Series 4 No. XXXX.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 18:32
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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A reason that many (I am reliably informed) voted for Brexit was that whenever Brussels imposed new rules we - the law abiding UK - would always comply whereas EU states only did so when it suited them. It seems that even though we are no longer members of that illustrious partisan club we are still being shafted. Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose.

Last edited by Same again; 22nd Jan 2021 at 18:47.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 20:38
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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It will probably be, but I have no evidence of that. If such a norm exist then those two contradict each other, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Same again View Post
Well I think we all know that EASA licenced pilots are flying G registered aircraft in UK airspace so there must be some other caveat that allows that.
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 20:46
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Here we go .....
told you so.:-).

UK CAA has published and updated their website regularly regarding the effects of Brexit and anyone with still a UK license now complaining that EASA is not recognising their license......tough luck.
The reason EASA pilots can fly a G-reg in the UK is (correct me if I'm worng) the 2 out of 3 rule.
G-reg in G country with a foreign but recognised license, 2 out of 3 so it's legal since.
Flying a EI-reg heli in Ireland with your UK license is to my knowledge not allowed since the license you have is for EASA worth nothing, so 2 out of 3 doesn't apply since there is no nr. 3.
(Country, Reg, License)
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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 21:17
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Of course. Sounds to me as if you work for EASA.

UK CAA has published and updated their website regularly regarding the effects of Brexit and anyone with still a UK license now complaining that EASA is not recognising their license......tough luck
If that is the case then I am surely the only pilot left in UK with a UK licence? They must be happy in FCL down at Aviation House.

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Old 22nd Jan 2021, 21:21
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Same again;10973952]Of course. Sounds to me as if you work for EASA.
Very close but not haha. I work in Gatwick for the C..
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Old 23rd Jan 2021, 08:34
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Then perhaps you are the prefect person to answer a question for me please? (cheque is in the post :-) I was under the impression that pilots could only hold one EASA licence. When I worked in Ireland some time ago I changed my ATPL(H) to ICAA but had to relinquish my UK licence. If most UK pilots (and if it means not being able to fly in EU without one - why wouldn't they?) have been changing to EASA state licences recently then it must mean that they no longer have UK licences. Seems a strange state of affairs to me and would seriously effect UK CAA FCL revenues would it not?

Excuse my ignorance but I have been working in warmer climes for years using FAA and CASA licences so have not paid much attention to Brexit developments.
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Old 23rd Jan 2021, 08:54
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ovc000 View Post
Here we go .....
told you so.:-).

UK CAA has published and updated their website regularly regarding the effects of Brexit and anyone with still a UK license now complaining that EASA is not recognising their license......tough luck.
The reason EASA pilots can fly a G-reg in the UK is (correct me if I'm worng) the 2 out of 3 rule.
G-reg in G country with a foreign but recognised license, 2 out of 3 so it's legal since.
Flying a EI-reg heli in Ireland with your UK license is to my knowledge not allowed since the license you have is for EASA worth nothing, so 2 out of 3 doesn't apply since there is no nr. 3.
(Country, Reg, License)
Well lets hope the operators in the UK favour home grown UK issued FCL. And recruit accordingly!
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Old 23rd Jan 2021, 11:09
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I’m not sure that all that many U.K. pilots are converting to EASA if they are currently G reg employed. I can’t thinkof any in my airline other than TREs (inc me) to enable me to sign EASA licences.
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Old 23rd Jan 2021, 11:45
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I have been unaware of the changes as I have been working outside the EU for some time. Considering the instability of aviation employment I would have thought that most UK pilots would want to make themselves as employable as possible, so I am surprised to learn that the take-up of EASA licences has not been greater. I fly rotary but I do see many UK based low-cost airlines that are EU registered.
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Old 23rd Jan 2021, 12:04
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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This is a job advertisement from a big Offshore and Onshore helicopter services provider.....

"• Currently we are only able to accept UK Part FCL Licences or UK issued EASA Licences."

The door is getting smaller
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Old 23rd Jan 2021, 14:40
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by berlioz View Post
This is a job advertisement from a big Offshore and Onshore helicopter services provider.....

"• Currently we are only able to accept UK Part FCL Licences or UK issued EASA Licences."

The door is getting smaller
I have read the same advert. Absolute HR nonsense given several of their pilots including management recently moved licences to EASA states. Indeed another North Sea operator encourage pilots to move to Sweden for their entire U.K. AOC operation and a third did the same for some of their U.K. training department.
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Old 23rd Jan 2021, 16:34
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Pardon the naïveté but surely you can apply and hold both an English and also a European licence, in much the same way that you can hold OZ, NZ, FAA etc.? Or is that a far too simplistic view given the unwieldy bureaucracy of the UK and the European Union(sic).
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Old 23rd Jan 2021, 16:53
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Evil Twin View Post
Pardon the naïveté but surely you can apply and hold both an English and also a European licence, in much the same way that you can hold OZ, NZ, FAA etc.? Or is that a far too simplistic view given the unwieldy bureaucracy of the UK and the European Union(sic).
Ovc000 may be more informed than me, but from my understanding that is perfectly acceptable. The UK CAA have told me they will begin issuing UK Part FCL licences starting in April 2021. Why they are waiting till April, when the rules changed in January I have no idea. Maybe that would be too efficient. But from my understanding an EASA licence holder need only request a UK Part FCL licence and then in the usual CAA turnaround time of far too long, they will receive a UK licence (in addition to holding their EASA licence).

I would be happy to be corrected, or given more information.
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