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Hill Helicopters HX50

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Hill Helicopters HX50

Old 23rd Nov 2022, 07:55
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I guess at some point people will stop placing orders, unless they see a realistic timeframe for delivery?
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Old 23rd Nov 2022, 08:24
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99
I guess at some point people will stop placing orders, unless they see a realistic timeframe for delivery?
Have you heard of FOMO?
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Old 23rd Nov 2022, 08:28
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
Have you heard of FOMO?
Somebody has...
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 08:31
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https://helihub.com/2022/12/01/hill-...ricing-update/

Hill Helicopters backlog close to 700 – plus pricing update

1-Dec-2022

Source: HeliHub.com

In their latest update call this week (a monthly call open to all online), Hill Helicopters revealed that their backlog is currently 692 helicopters, consisting of 574 of the HX50 model, and 118 of the HC50 model. These are externally identical, with the HC50 conforming to standards which will allow it to be operated commercially. Orders for the HC50 are still not fully open. Until an as-yet-unannounced date in mid 2023, purchasers can only order any number of the HC50 model if they already have an HX50 on order first.

The pricing mechanism has also changed a little recently, although the final price of the HX50 remains fixed at £595,000. Orders are currently being taken with a £30,000 deposit, and a purchaser’s final price is now calculated by a formula which calculates the discount on the final price. During the presentation, CEO Dr Jason Hill noted that the discounted price is currently £476,000 – but the discount is reduced by £1,000 for every three orders taken.

Thus at some point in the near future when another 30 deposits have been accepted, the retail price at that point will have risen by 10 increments of £1,000 to £486,000. All pricing is in UK Pounds. No pricing update was given by Hill Helicopters on their HC50 model, which is understood to be set at £725,000. The previous restriction to particular countries has now been lifted and deposits are being taken from all corners of the globe.

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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 11:24
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And there was a first pre production hull shown
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 14:48
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"we are aiming for March-June 2023 to run the engine"

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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 16:50
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99
"we are aiming for March-June 2023 to run the engine"

https://youtu.be/C8Yhp6-d3tk?t=685
“JAR Part E and FAR Part 37”?

EASA CS-E and FAR Part 33, surely…..
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Old 2nd Dec 2022, 17:15
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Planning Applications - Staffordshire Moorlands District Council

factory planning decision delayed until 26th Jan 2023
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Old 3rd Dec 2022, 04:17
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Pre-production? You mean mock-up (he even calls it that).
If the hull is never going to fly, it isn't pre-prod.
It's all very pretty, but they have a long way to go to get a flying test ship, everything is still at the early/rapid prototype stage.
Fortunately they have managed to prove they can actually make the hull at the cost they intend, it's rather late in the game to prove that theory.
Good thing that carbon fibre process doesn't look complicated or time intensive
I'm still unsure about an ipad as an essential item in a cockpit, in warmer climes they just love going thermal and switching off.
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Old 3rd Dec 2022, 15:40
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692 x £40,000 in deposits = £28 million

plus other funding/grants

how long can that last?

Last edited by hargreaves99; 3rd Dec 2022 at 16:45.
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Old 3rd Dec 2022, 16:17
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99
692 x £40,000 in deposits = £2.8 million

plus other funding/grants

how long can that last?
Err, I think your decimal point is in the wrong place.

But your point remains valid Big numbers look and feel really impressive until you start burning through it quickly.
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Old 3rd Dec 2022, 16:45
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ah yes, corrected

£28 million
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Old 3rd Dec 2022, 19:44
  #653 (permalink)  

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The figure of £28,000,000 in deposits taken rings a bell from my previous mention of the failed Elio Motors company.

That was the amount taken in non refundable deposits by that company, too. Sadly, in that case, it was mainly taken from people on lower incomes who were promised a radical design of 3 wheeled road vehicle, which would supposedly undercut everything else on the market. Prototypes were made, but there was difficulty with the legislators, radical design changes were made, the purchase price keep going up, but there never was a working factory and not one production vehicle ever appeared.

I was initially very enthusiastic and very interested in buying one of these little cars (although I always knew the stated mpg figure was over-optimistic) but it very soon became apparent to me that the production timescale just being stretched further into the distance. In reality it turned out to be a crowdfunding exercise for an engineer with a vision, rather than a business with a realistic target. It became a race to find more punters before the business went bust and it failed. The whole thing was regrettable. All the punters lost their deposits and the company owners eventually received a large fine. I understand that the company is still aiming to produce vehicles, having changed to electric power, but there is still no sign of any.

I’d love to see Hill Helicopter’s design come right but I just think the targets are unrealistic, for reasons stated above.
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Old 4th Dec 2022, 07:07
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque
The figure of £28,000,000 in deposits taken rings a bell from my previous mention of the failed Elio Motors company.

That was the amount taken in non refundable deposits by that company, too. Sadly, in that case, it was mainly taken from people on lower incomes who were promised a radical design of 3 wheeled road vehicle, which would supposedly undercut everything else on the market. Prototypes were made, but there was difficulty with the legislators, radical design changes were made, the purchase price keep going up, but there never was a working factory and not one production vehicle ever appeared.

I was initially very enthusiastic and very interested in buying one of these little cars (although I always knew the stated mpg figure was over-optimistic) but it very soon became apparent to me that the production timescale just being stretched further into the distance. In reality it turned out to be a crowdfunding exercise for an engineer with a vision, rather than a business with a realistic target. It became a race to find more punters before the business went bust and it failed. The whole thing was regrettable. All the punters lost their deposits and the company owners eventually received a large fine. I understand that the company is still aiming to produce vehicles, having changed to electric power, but there is still no sign of any.

I’d love to see Hill Helicopter’s design come right but I just think the targets are unrealistic, for reasons stated above.
Well put, Shy. I simply can't escape the feeling that the £495k price was chosen as a price point to meet, rather than because it represents a sensible level based on traditional costing factors.

I'm sure Jason Hill is a brilliant engineer; however one problem with an autocracy is that his word is the final word. If he had surrounded himself with sensible businessmen who could challenge and question, the pricing may have been a bit more sensible and the product targets more realistic.

This latest deposit/cash grab smacks of money trouble.
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Old 22nd Dec 2022, 08:32
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planning decision now delayed until 9th march 2023....

Planning Applications - Staffordshire Moorlands District Council
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Old 22nd Dec 2022, 10:02
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What I find interesting is how the majority want to slag off someone who may well be the saviour of our industry. No one seems to want to slag off what currently happens in our industry. Here is one example for you ( as an owner operator for 35 years of 300's,500's 206's 341's and 350's I could give you lots more ) MD main rotor blades the bonding between the grip and blade has been known to come apart. Now if you were in the automotive industry ,as my quality assurance manger used to be, this would have been addressed as he said by a redesign of the process etc etc . But no, aviation turns round just looks at it every 200 torque events and that will be safe enough ! Really ?????? You guys say he cant design stuff, well I am sorry neither can the OEM's the only difference he is trying to bring known technologies and process akin to the automotive industry which is way more into Health and safety and cost than aviation will ever be.
Why not support someone who is trying to make a British helicopter and bring back some engineering back to these shores ,dont see anyone of you out there who would have the drive, the patience, technical ability or knowledge thatJason has. Personally I really hope it gets there so he can wave 2 fingers at all you negativity, but i guess that is always the case in UK where we seem to go overboard to rubbish people rather than supporting them.
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Old 22nd Dec 2022, 10:17
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I really hope he succeeds and he delivers on the specs.

As I said, I admire his vision/skills/knowledge/drive/ambition.

But I am sceptical about what can be actually be delivered, and in what timeframe. I hope to be proved wrong.
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Old 22nd Dec 2022, 10:36
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Wow, you must be at the very top of Jason's Christmas card list Hughes 500.......
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Old 22nd Dec 2022, 17:06
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
Wow, you must be at the very top of Jason's Christmas card list Hughes 500.......
They’re still ironing out the kinks in the Christmas cards.
It is an amazing card, you should see the CGI, it’s going to revolutionise the Christmas card market. There is half a rapid-prototype card you can see, they expect it to be ready by Easter, depending on planning permission..
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Old 22nd Dec 2022, 17:16
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Crab, no just saying it as it is. I like the guy and what he stands for. Lets be fair the normal OEM's wave 2 fingers at us as customers on pricing, supply etc etc. To mention a couple of other examples of the big boys being too big for their own boots lets think of Boeing 737 max and Sikorsky S92 gearbox's. I guess he is trying to do a Frank Robinson on the helicopter world but coming from an even better position than Frank was. Dont get me wrong i am not a fan of the Robinson product but it changed the helicopter world.
He is only bringing modern sensible practices to a world that quite frankly is in the dark ages when it comes to manufacturing. I remember very well taking a tour at Westland's and asking a fitter about cable tying a wiring loom in an EH101, over the space of half a day it had taken one guy to cable tie 2 m of loom to a frame !!!!!
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