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Hill Helicopters HX50

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Hill Helicopters HX50

Old 30th Dec 2022, 16:53
  #681 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99
I'm not an accountant but I think one advantage is that the different companies can "invoice" each other for "services" thus decreasing their tax liability.

Of course it also makes it easier when the companies have financial trouble as all the debt can be loaded onto one company, so people think XYZ Ltd owes them money, and then get told, "ah sorry, that company has folded" yet the business seems to continue operating, as "XYZ Maintenance, XYZ Services, XYZ Technologies" etc continue to trade.
I hope I'm wrong, but I do believe second part is the reason for it.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 16:57
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Apart from deferring tax, it is a great way to limit liability.
Tiered structures arenít uncommon - but 7?
Every penny counts, I suppose.
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Old 31st Dec 2022, 06:23
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Let's hope we don't see the 'liability shuffle' as described by Hargreaves99, in action when things go wrong.
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Old 31st Dec 2022, 06:57
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
Apart from deferring tax, it is a great way to limit liability.
Tiered structures arenít uncommon - but 7?
Every penny counts, I suppose.
There are loads of companies out there that have more than 7 subsidiaries , it is as said before to protect assets, reduce tax liabilities, raise capital easier, protect their intellectual property, efficiencies, easier for M&A's, protect and limit liability incase something goes wrong with your product.
Sometimes it takes a lot of forensic accounting to unearth all the different companies hidden behind the main group especially when they are set up in different countries, mostly in tax friendly places around the globe.
So Hill Helicopters Ltd might have even more subsidiaries than the 7 listed above.
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Old 31st Dec 2022, 07:03
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Crab I think you mean if !
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Old 31st Dec 2022, 07:49
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Originally Posted by finalchecksplease
There are loads of companies out there that have more than 7 subsidiaries , it is as said before to protect assets, reduce tax liabilities, raise capital easier, protect their intellectual property, efficiencies, easier for M&A's, protect and limit liability incase something goes wrong with your product.
Sometimes it takes a lot of forensic accounting to unearth all the different companies hidden behind the main group especially when they are set up in different countries, mostly in tax friendly places around the globe.
So Hill Helicopters Ltd might have even more subsidiaries than the 7 listed above.
Or they might not - lets be fair, if they are trying to hide the companies behind the main company, they've not shown a lot of imagination...

Last edited by SWBKCB; 31st Dec 2022 at 10:06.
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Old 31st Dec 2022, 08:11
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It appears plenty of people are still placing orders for the HX and HC, so while this continues all is good.

I'm looking forward to seeing the prototype flying in 2023. I'm genuinely interested to see the result.




Last edited by hargreaves99; 31st Dec 2022 at 10:26.
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Old 31st Dec 2022, 09:33
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Originally Posted by Hughes500
Crab I think you mean if !
I did but maybe I am just being prescient
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 07:07
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Crab, to be fair i m sure he will have loads of problems but having seen a lot of what goes on and I then compare it to the Cabri G2 factory ( which i saw when i nearly became the UK distributor about 10 years ago ) one is like my garden shed, i will let you wonder which one
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 08:20
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An airframe has been built.



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Old 7th Jan 2023, 08:39
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99
An airframe has been built.
Is this not just the first mock-up shown at the last gathering?
An actual airframe is something that is intended to fly..
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 08:44
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Errr, I am not sure. I am sure the video explains it. I can't be arsed watching the "yoof" presenter of these videos.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 11:24
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I just watched it through, not bad though not as comprehensively or personably explained as Mike Patey videos.

From what I gathered, it's the first airframe built from prototype moulds and is being used for manufacturing and structural testing/proving, etc.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 13:03
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That would make it a pre-production fuselage rather than an airframe wouldn't it?
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 14:08
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Blimey, really looking to split hairs now. Like H99, I'm not sure why they chose the 'yoof' presenter but he's not in it much.

What is clear from the video is how pleased they are at the end of the process. If that's not genuine excitement, they're in the wrong business!
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 14:48
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
That would make it a pre-production fuselage rather than an airframe wouldn't it?
The pre-production Concordes were the third and fourth fliers. As far as I know BAC also built 1-11s and VC-10s for static test which were built using production tooling, were part of the production line and had construction numbers allocated - built to the same standard but not to completion, don't know about other manufacturers. If it could be completed and flown then I'd call it an airframe. Semantics maybe?

Either way, the video is of a fuselage built as they would intend to do so for production rather than a mock up.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 16:15
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
The pre-production Concordes were the third and fourth fliers. As far as I know BAC also built 1-11s and VC-10s for static test which were built using production tooling, were part of the production line and had construction numbers allocated - built to the same standard but not to completion, don't know about other manufacturers. If it could be completed and flown then I'd call it an airframe. Semantics maybe?

Either way, the video is of a fuselage built as they would intend to do so for production rather than a mock up.
except that by their own admission this was to prove a technique which was not right yet. So this is a proof of concept. From what they said, or skirted around, it is not intended to fly.
if it is, it will inherit a serial number.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 17:17
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OK, who cares what it is?
It's a progress from where they were.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 17:44
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Latest predictions being given by Hill are ..

- engine running by June 2023
- prototype flying by end of 2023

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Old 8th Jan 2023, 14:25
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Have they got a factory yet?
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