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Hill Helicopters HX50

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Hill Helicopters HX50

Old 4th Nov 2022, 18:11
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Sorry to brake the general mood here but I wish all the best to Jason Hill !

He is a well known engineer and an enthusiast helicopter private pilot and reminds me Bruno in some aspects so he's got all my respect
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 02:26
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Those images are CGI.

The engine is NOT built yet, only certain components have been milled I guess for practice, the engine is NOT new from the ground up, its based on an industrial pump engine that already exists, they are just sort of making a variant of that.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 05:18
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He may be keen and well-intentioned but is he going to deliver or disappoint?
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 05:50
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
He may be keen and well-intentioned but is he going to deliver or disappoint?
I think he will deliver but not for the price quoted or in the time scales. More like 3-5 years for the first few prototypes.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 07:51
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
He may be keen and well-intentioned but is he going to deliver or disappoint?
I can't answer this question, because unlike most of those who have the answer here, I have very little knowledge of the design and production of light helicopters.

I can only say that they have the motivation and the knowledge to succeed and that's what I wish for them.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 15:18
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"Special Conditions"?

Last edited by hargreaves99; 18th Nov 2022 at 21:22.
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Old 21st Nov 2022, 16:25
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I suspect the "special conditions" are those referred to (price rise etc) in the email Hill sent out today:"We are thrilled to let you know that the HX50 pre-order program has been a huge success, with over 550 HX50 orders from 50 countries.
Today, we are announcing a base price adjustment from 495,000 to 595,000, in line with the overwhelming demand for the HX50 and worldwide market conditions.
We have just launched our last pre-order program which still allows you to order your HX50 under very special conditions. Starting at 472,000, there will be a gradual price increase of 1,000 every 3 HX50 serial numbers ordered. These preferred discounted terms will end when the price reaches 595,000 or on the day of the first flight of the HX50 (whichever comes first).As our previous pre-order programs this last one will continue to be more rewarding to anyone who orders earlier than later."
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Old 21st Nov 2022, 16:28
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And so the price hikes begin - couldn't possibly have seen that coming - nor the push to get people to invest early, is he running out of cash?
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Old 21st Nov 2022, 16:46
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planning decision on new factory expected Dec 15th...

192 public comments, vast majority are objections

Planning Applications - Staffordshire Moorlands District Council
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Old 21st Nov 2022, 17:23
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75 k for a planning application !!!
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Old 21st Nov 2022, 18:08
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Originally Posted by Hughes500
75 k for a planning application !!!
Bet it only really costs 500 in materials
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 07:23
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
And so the price hikes begin - couldn't possibly have seen that coming - nor the push to get people to invest early, is he running out of cash?
GIve credit where credit is due. Everything went up, so I find this price increase justified.
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 07:57
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Originally Posted by admikar
GIve credit where credit is due. Everything went up, so I find this price increase justified.
With headline inflation at 10-11% a 20% price increase seems to have some extra 'margin' built in. Or is aerospace inflation greater than the headline numbers?
N
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 07:58
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Originally Posted by admikar
GIve credit where credit is due. Everything went up, so I find this price increase justified.
It's more the 1k every 3 serial numbers that is super cheesy and leaves an impression they are in a rush to try grab as much cash as quickly as possible.
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 10:03
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So if you were the depositor for s/n 525, your price was 495k. But if you were one of the 'lucky 3' who orders 526-528, you pay 472k. Have I got that right?

And when is the delivery of your ship being promised? How many 'finishing bays' (where owners help build the aircraft) will they have? As each one can only build 25 per year, that's a lot of years until your aircraft turns up.

I am more and more convinced that this project is burning through cash at a rate that is beginning to worry even CRAN (sorry....I mean Jason Hill. They are DEFINiTELY different people). Normal business practice would have been to cap the 'early adopter' list at say 200/250 then charge a premium once you had an aircraft flying as it will still take a few years to get the early ships built. This whole scenario just smacks of a cash grab.

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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 10:19
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Mmmm.. I will admit this recently pricing scheme does look a little odd, then again I am not a businessman

I don't think they have a working engine yet, but they hope to "by early next year"
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 10:43
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Originally Posted by Bengo
With headline inflation at 10-11% a 20% price increase seems to have some extra 'margin' built in. Or is aerospace inflation greater than the headline numbers?
N
3 types of lies: small lie, big lie and statistics.
Some stuff has gone up way more than 20%. Me, personally, had to increase salaries 25+% to retain skilled workers. That's on top of production costs increase. So, price increase itself might not be fishy. But all this "hurry to get yours ASAP because we are sliding price up" definitely is.
And just to make sure, I am one of the pesimists regarding what was promised here
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 11:22
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It's a shame this doesn't apply to pilot wages/rates, they seem to be immune to any inflation since about 1998

personally, had to increase salaries 25+% to retain skilled workers.
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Old 23rd Nov 2022, 02:49
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
Bet it only really costs 500 in materials
Brilliant!
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Old 23rd Nov 2022, 05:29
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His funding model has a flaw, it requires them to meet deadlines. If he can't, then Hill can't convert deposits into subsequent payments and has to keep loading the pipe with pre-orders. You have to wonder what governance is in place, at some point you have no hope of delivering pre-orders in any reasonable timeframe.
What happens if planning permission doesn't pass and that long battle starts - what is plan B? How long will that take?
Can they move assembly offshore?
This assumes no other technical delays, or hard lessons being learned in the process - something no other manufacturer manages to avoid.
Costs must have increased, it has affected every industry, the cash can't be lasting as long as originally expected.
Would love to see their cashflow.
Some of the newer, better funded, EV manufacturers have developed a good product. What they have struggled with is setting up efficient manufacturing.
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