Sheer Bad Luck
Chopjock - you regularly refer to the load on the main rotor shaft as being measured by Tq or ToT - where do you think those readings are taken from and how are they measured?
I think you are confusing engine performance parameters with the structural stresses experienced by the airframe when you hang extra weight on it.
I think you are confusing engine performance parameters with the structural stresses experienced by the airframe when you hang extra weight on it.
Cheers. Advice taken long ago by the way...
I think the expression in your part of the World is "Put a Sock in it!".
Over here where we are far less polished the saying is "STFU!".
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SAS;
You are obviously far too much of a gentleman! When they finally dig him out of the wreckage I do believe Chopcock will be found with a very surprised look on his face. I just pray he’s alone.
SND
You are obviously far too much of a gentleman! When they finally dig him out of the wreckage I do believe Chopcock will be found with a very surprised look on his face. I just pray he’s alone.
SND
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Chop jock. WEIGHT is a function of the earths gravity acting on mass. So if you increase the MASS of your helicopter the earth will pull harder. The components of the helicopter are certified SAFE provided the helicopter is operated within the limitations in the flight manual. MAXIMUM TAKE-OFF MASS is always a limiting factor to prevent the earths gravity pulling so had things might break.
ROC ect is just performance. Some days the performance may be insufficient to even take-off at the maximum mass. Some days there may be enough performance to take off way over the maximum mass.
TQ and TOT provide no indication of the helicopters mass. These parameters are solely a result of LIFT or ROTOR THRUST to be more precise as DRAG increases proportional to LIFT and Tq must be increased to prevent the Nr decaying. TOT, N1, N2 increases as the engine responds to the TQ demand.
Finally, MAXIMUM take-off mass is affected by G forces. In fixed wing G force limits are sometimes specified. In Helicopters AOB IAS limits can suffice.
Needless to say, MTOM limitations should be considered abosolute. You statements on this thread are stone cold heracy to professional pilots and the venerable generation of SAS, Crab etc. In short, you understanding of basic physics and flight dynamics are seriously flawed.
ROC ect is just performance. Some days the performance may be insufficient to even take-off at the maximum mass. Some days there may be enough performance to take off way over the maximum mass.
TQ and TOT provide no indication of the helicopters mass. These parameters are solely a result of LIFT or ROTOR THRUST to be more precise as DRAG increases proportional to LIFT and Tq must be increased to prevent the Nr decaying. TOT, N1, N2 increases as the engine responds to the TQ demand.
Finally, MAXIMUM take-off mass is affected by G forces. In fixed wing G force limits are sometimes specified. In Helicopters AOB IAS limits can suffice.
Needless to say, MTOM limitations should be considered abosolute. You statements on this thread are stone cold heracy to professional pilots and the venerable generation of SAS, Crab etc. In short, you understanding of basic physics and flight dynamics are seriously flawed.
@chopcock, you seem to be saying that you can go above the manufacturer’s certified MTOW as long as you don’t exceed the rotational torque limitations of the gearbox?
But to lift more than MTOW means applying more than MTOW to: the rotor, the gearbox bearings, the gearbox mountings and the structure of the helicopter. THIS APPLIES NO MATTER HOW SLOWLY OR GENTLY YOU CLIMB. WHETHER YOU REMAIN WITHIN THE GREEN ARCS IS IRRELEVANT: YOU WILL STILL BE SUBJECTING MORE THAN MTOW TO ALL THOSE COMPONENTS.
Your supposed assertion that you can be overweight but not necessarily exceed any green arcs is either wrong, or you are forgetting that the manufacturer will apply safety margins when he specifies limits.
I suspect that you are either a troll or that you only fly a desk-top flight simulator, which, being neither certified or accurate might very well appear to suggest that you can do what you keep claiming. It might fool you, but nobody can fool physics.
But to lift more than MTOW means applying more than MTOW to: the rotor, the gearbox bearings, the gearbox mountings and the structure of the helicopter. THIS APPLIES NO MATTER HOW SLOWLY OR GENTLY YOU CLIMB. WHETHER YOU REMAIN WITHIN THE GREEN ARCS IS IRRELEVANT: YOU WILL STILL BE SUBJECTING MORE THAN MTOW TO ALL THOSE COMPONENTS.
Your supposed assertion that you can be overweight but not necessarily exceed any green arcs is either wrong, or you are forgetting that the manufacturer will apply safety margins when he specifies limits.
I suspect that you are either a troll or that you only fly a desk-top flight simulator, which, being neither certified or accurate might very well appear to suggest that you can do what you keep claiming. It might fool you, but nobody can fool physics.
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DB & Uplinker,
Ok I see it now, I may have got it wrong. Yes I thought that staying in the green would not over stress anything. I have learned something today...
Cheers.
Ok I see it now, I may have got it wrong. Yes I thought that staying in the green would not over stress anything. I have learned something today...
Cheers.
Last edited by chopjock; 10th Jun 2018 at 18:51.
SND,
I very much object to that remark!
I have been called a lot of things in this life....but rarely a Gentleman....and never too much of one...except by my Flight Surgeon when observing my ever increasing Mass (and Cube).
You are obviously far too much of a gentleman!
I very much object to that remark!
I have been called a lot of things in this life....but rarely a Gentleman....and never too much of one...except by my Flight Surgeon when observing my ever increasing Mass (and Cube).
So now, in your new (and shockingly scary) world of "Wow, if I listen to pilots who actually KNOW what they're talking about, I might learn a whole lot of useful stuff, and I'll realise just how F'ing stupid I've been with my head wedged firmly up where the sun don't shine", you might just live a bit longer. But most importantly, you will hopefully STOP spouting the stupid, dangerous cr@p you filled many pages with, and made a total tool of yourself in doing so.
Re-read everything you've been told: Re-read all the rubbish you've spouted. Please stop thinking "it must be right because I've always tried to make myself believe it", and remember that - especially in your case - almost everyone will have something you can learn from, and it would be really, REALLY stupid to continue to spout forth on these pages in your defiant manner contradicting just about everything you're being told.
You might have made the first step in admitting that you've said some extraordinarily stupid, dangerous nonsense, but now you need to build on that and realise just how very far you need to go to even begin to understand the very basics, to have a chance of becoming anywhere close to being a safe pilot. You, chopjock, have a VERY long and difficult journey of learning ahead, because it all starts with the concept you find hardest - LISTENING. And to help you on your way, a key ingredient to that is to STOP talking.
You have shocked a lot of people on these forums, not just with your total ignorance, but the far worse defiance that goes with it.
Choppy me old shipmate - methinks you've just been on the biggest fishing trip of your life, haven't you......................................................... .............haven't you?
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SAS;
A gentleman always takes his weight on his knees and elbows!
My medical examiner is taking a very close interest in my personal MTOW at the moment. I’m really missing wine, beer and steaks☹️
SND
A gentleman always takes his weight on his knees and elbows!
My medical examiner is taking a very close interest in my personal MTOW at the moment. I’m really missing wine, beer and steaks☹️
SND
For chopjock: Fatigue life.
Please go to your local public library and borrow a few college level text books that cover that principle. Spend some time studying them.
Then, with the pump primed, please visit with a professor who is teaching aerodynamics, and with accompaniment of tea or pints, your choice, discuss what you think you have learned.
When SND and others suggest to you that they don't want to be caught dead flying with you, that is easily understood that nobody should fly with you as being dead is a likely result ... based on the level of understanding that you display.
Suggestion: Improve understanding, decrease likelihood of being the next smoking hole. Please.
Fly safe.
Please go to your local public library and borrow a few college level text books that cover that principle. Spend some time studying them.
Then, with the pump primed, please visit with a professor who is teaching aerodynamics, and with accompaniment of tea or pints, your choice, discuss what you think you have learned.
When SND and others suggest to you that they don't want to be caught dead flying with you, that is easily understood that nobody should fly with you as being dead is a likely result ... based on the level of understanding that you display.
Suggestion: Improve understanding, decrease likelihood of being the next smoking hole. Please.
Fly safe.
Just a reminder that a Coroners report focus is different to the Investigation by the relevant aviation authorities. We all agree the "sheer bad luck " as reported is wrong.
Don’t worry about the steaks - protein is OK. Just cut out sugar and carbohydrates. Hence, alcohol and many many sauces contain sugar. So no sauce on your steak. The chips are pure carbohydrate, so avoid those too, have a big delicious salad instead (no dressing except a little drop of olive oil).
Unless you are running a marathon at the time, if you eat sugar and to a lesser extent, carbs, they will get converted to fat and will be stored in the body as fat. Eating protein, meat and fish etc, (without sauce) is fine.
Recognising and avoiding eating hidden sugar is quite a task, but it can be done - I am 5’ 10” and weigh 72kg. Most processed food contains sugar (and salt which you should also have none of in your food), Check the labels on the back of food, under the 100g column it will show carbs, of which xg is sugars, so that gives you a direct percentage.
@pilotmike,
Don’t get too worked up. People don’t always ‘get it’ straight away. There have been numerous attempts on this thread to explain basic physics in different ways to chopjock, and the message has finally sunk in it would seem. So we all contributed to his/her final realisation.
@chopjock, well done for admitting you were wrong. You did make a pillock of yourself, but the important thing is that you have publically acknowledged this and learned something.
Don’t get too worked up. People don’t always ‘get it’ straight away. There have been numerous attempts on this thread to explain basic physics in different ways to chopjock, and the message has finally sunk in it would seem. So we all contributed to his/her final realisation.
@chopjock, well done for admitting you were wrong. You did make a pillock of yourself, but the important thing is that you have publically acknowledged this and learned something.
Last edited by Uplinker; 14th Jun 2018 at 09:33.
Chopjock,
At least you have owned up to the "errors in your judgment" of being given false info. I wouldn't worry too much - most of the responses given here to your posts were all "hellfire and brimstone" and miles from fact as well.
Only pilots after all.
Read all of Ray Prouty's stuff if you haven't already. I was lucky enough to spend a bit of time with him when he was around. True gentleman.
At least you have owned up to the "errors in your judgment" of being given false info. I wouldn't worry too much - most of the responses given here to your posts were all "hellfire and brimstone" and miles from fact as well.
Only pilots after all.
Read all of Ray Prouty's stuff if you haven't already. I was lucky enough to spend a bit of time with him when he was around. True gentleman.