Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Salaries?

Old 15th Feb 2018, 09:18
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Having been in the industry for many years, I still notice that there is a grey area when it comes to 'the Industry Standard' for Rotary Pilot Salaries. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here but trying to establish an evidence based standard for us and those that may be interested in a career in flying to refer to. I appreciate that market forces and economic influences have a part to play but I am respectfully asking you all to compile information on this thread that is evidenced based, anonymous and accurate such that we can all have an appreciation of our value and where the highs and lows are in our industry. This could depart into many deep discussions (which I embrace) but for the sake of this thread, please keep those to another post. Just the data for now. Nothing sinister intended in this thread - I'm just seeking some transparency which is always a good thing.
Fill in the gaps for 2018 rates (ensure it is evidenced or it means nothing);
Offshore FO
Offshore SFO (IR/non IR)
Offshore Capt
SAR FO/SFO (IR/non IR)
SAR Capt
Police Capt (IR/non IR)
HEMS Capt (IR/non IR)
Corporate FO/SFO (IR/non IR)
Corporate Capt
Power Distribution Capt (IR/non IR)
Windfarm Capt (IR/non IR)
TRI/TRE additional supplement
Test Capt (IR/non IR)
Corporate Capt
Sim Operator
AC Positioning Capt

It may have been done before (which I have not found with any significant detail but please direct me if I am wrong?) but lets get it refreshed for 2018.
Thank you.
Murdoch01 is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2018, 12:43
  #2 (permalink)  
QTG
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 103
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Hands up all those who are going to amuse us by telling us how much they earn!
QTG is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2018, 13:10
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: europe
Age: 38
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Onshore FO IR Freelance 250€ daily rate
helimo is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2018, 15:30
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Bar to Bar
Posts: 794
Received 6 Likes on 1 Post
UK Police salaries are public knowledge (unless TUPE'd over).
Sloppy Link is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2018, 15:30
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I’m not asking for you to identify your own earnings. Just help us populate knowledge of salaries we do know. It could help a lot of people and safeguard our worth in a world that is trimming to the core.
Murdoch01 is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2018, 15:51
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 1,658
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
You won't find any offshore guys without an IR these days. Capt/SFO or FO.

Salaries range from around £60k for FO up to over £100k for senior offshore captains and more if they are TRI/E etc.


Onshore Corporate Captain, IR, Multi crew, £75k.

Certain organisations pay a lot more for an experienced Corporate Onshore Captain, these range from £85k-£100k+ and will include a pension, usually health benefits and sometimes a car allowance. The good ones that is. The bad ones will pay whatever they can get away with.
helimutt is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2018, 17:43
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 202
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Offshore FO - £48-60k
Offshore SFO £65-80k
Offshore Capt £80-100k+

The above is same for SAR

LZ
Hot_LZ is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2018, 19:29
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere very sunny !
Age: 53
Posts: 338
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Offshore FO.........Not Enough
Offshore SFO (IR/non IR).......Still not enough/Never heard of one.
Offshore Capt.......Getting there but still not close
SAR FO/SFO (IR/non IR).......See Above
SAR Capt........Far to little
Police Capt (IR/non IR)......To little/More would be nice
HEMS Capt (IR/non IR)......See Police Capt
Corporate FO/SFO (IR/non IR)......Almost there
Corporate Capt.......A tad shy but close
Power Distribution Capt (IR/non IR)........Electrifying close
Windfarm Capt (IR/non IR).......A smidge more needed
TRI/TRE additional supplement........A few more quid needed
Test Capt (IR/non IR).........Close but no cigar
Corporate Capt.........What ever he can get
Sim Operator........Far to much !
AC Positioning Capt.........HOW MUCH !

Sorry, couldn't help myself
Impress to inflate is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 06:52
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Impress to inflate
Offshore FO.........Not Enough
Offshore SFO (IR/non IR).......Still not enough/Never heard of one.
Offshore Capt.......Getting there but still not close
SAR FO/SFO (IR/non IR).......See Above
SAR Capt........Far to little
Police Capt (IR/non IR)......To little/More would be nice
HEMS Capt (IR/non IR)......See Police Capt
Corporate FO/SFO (IR/non IR)......Almost there
Corporate Capt.......A tad shy but close
Power Distribution Capt (IR/non IR)........Electrifying close
Windfarm Capt (IR/non IR).......A smidge more needed
TRI/TRE additional supplement........A few more quid needed
Test Capt (IR/non IR).........Close but no cigar
Corporate Capt.........What ever he can get
Sim Operator........Far to much !
AC Positioning Capt.........HOW MUCH !

Sorry, couldn't help myself
Ha, brill! I know that this is healthy cynicism and all of us will nod knowingly but are we paid fairly? Why are police and HEMS paid so badly for example. I have friends who do these roles and they fly a rostered FTL, in poor weather, require an IR, fly at night on NVIS, have unsociable hrs, land in hazardous unprepared sites and deal with sometimes very unpalatable subject matter.....And all by themselves? They carry the aviation responsibility squarely on their shoulders......
Murdoch01 is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 07:22
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
HEMS and NPAS - still unacceptable pay?

Why are police and HEMS paid so badly? Isn’t it time for them to be recognised monetarily for the role they carry out? I have friends who do these jobs and they are Captains who fly high stakes missions, in very poor weather, require an IR, fly at night on NVIS, have unsociable hrs, land in hazardous unprepared sites and deal with sometimes very unpalatable subject matter.....? Single pilot as well. Although they do have part assistance from a crew member they carry the aviation responsibility squarely on their shoulders......all for the lowest salaries in the industry. Is this acceptable anymore?
Murdoch01 is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 12:15
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: world
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Murdoch01
Why are police and HEMS paid so badly? Isn’t it time for them to be recognised monetarily for the role they carry out? I have friends who do these jobs and they are Captains who fly high stakes missions, in very poor weather, require an IR, fly at night on NVIS, have unsociable hrs, land in hazardous unprepared sites and deal with sometimes very unpalatable subject matter.....? Single pilot as well. Although they do have part assistance from a crew member they carry the aviation responsibility squarely on their shoulders......all for the lowest salaries in the industry. Is this acceptable anymore?
I agree, and this situation happens all over Europe
KATTAGORRIA is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 13:41
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Florida/Sandbox/UK
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unfortunately Murdoch, the times we live in are changing. Big industry cares about safety and their shareholders....not sure which takes the priority.

The end-users are the Oil and Gas suppliers and their core industry - Oil and Gas - has been severely hit in recent years due to diminishing oil and gas prices. That means exploration budgets are cut, air transportation cuts, reviews of air transportation contracts etc etc. These all roll downhill to the air transportation personnel at the coalface.

Add to that, further decline due to a few serious and high-profile accidents, you then have an industry that is shedding its surplus personnel who still need to work. Quite rightly, they will take any reasonable job offer, and potential employers are aware of this because they get 40+ applicants for every job. There is no real need for Police and HEMS to pay big money for helicopter pilots with so many quality people to choose from.....As you said - market forces.

As sad as this is, we are no different to any other industry with a surplus of people (for whatever reason).

For those younger pilots with IRs, I would recommend the airlines. This is a growth industry. The helicopter industry as we knew it will take a long time to bounce back, if ever.

Nobody's fault, thats life. Good luck with your survey.
hihover is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 16:19
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 75
Received 13 Likes on 5 Posts
hihover....40+ applicants for every job?? a) is that Qualified applicants? b) not where I work, not any more...
quote: "There is no real need for Police and HEMS to pay big money for helicopter pilots with so many quality people to choose from"
I would like to see proof of this? The first 12 c.v.'s across my desk this week went straight in the bin....certainly not qualified! Add to this the huge amount of retiree's starting to happen, (mainly ex-mil) that was predicted 12+ years ago, with less and less leaving/available, no one training to become helo pilots the last couple of years, anyone with any sense is off to the airlines, many pilots taking/taken early retirement and others just completely fed up with the rotary industry, it is starting to bite....Add to this the topic of this thread, the completely p*%s poor wages and disgraceful pensions offered by some, (one yellow HEMS unit offer 3%)?!?!?!??!???!?!?? then there will be a shortage of good guys and gals to choose from...this was the topic of a conference this week in London....
Are there Pilots out of work, Yes ! Are there 100's of qualified pilots out of work, definitely not!! However, all you will hear from employers is that they also have 40 qualified applicants for every job, that way the scaremongering keeps the wages and pensions low, which is exactly what they want!
They may be able to employ pilots, but not many stay for the long haul as no matter how good the job, eventually the pay/pensions are too low to retain pilots!
B.
Brutal is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2018, 21:17
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 75
Received 13 Likes on 5 Posts
H.99 Read my post...I Stated QUALIFIED........

New CPL's are not...
Babcocks Requirements are NOT that high... Or do we give a 150 hr cpl a type rating on a 135/145 and let them fly single pilot in all sorts of weather?? I remember having a brand new CPL and couldn't get a job as I wasn't "qualified"
You need a certain amount of experience..and I get it, like all jobs, you can't get the job without experience, but how do you get it??
When companies start to feel the squeeze when all the "Qualified " pilots have dried up, (we are almost there)...then they will be forced to invest in training and type ratings...
Compared to a few years back, there is a drastic reduction in ex-mil guys leaving the forces and becoming available....
Companies will always try to save every penny, hence the situation on the N.Sea where Type ratings are king..you could have been loyal to a company for 20 years but then they lose a contract on that type you fly, and your service means nothing as the new guy with the type that they want will keep his/her job?? Hence why people are leaving the N.sea even if they are secure because they have seen how the operators treat people with utter contempt!
I sit in on senior meetings with management, they know there is a lack of Suitable qualified pilots and (although they would never admit it publicly), they are concerned...
B.
Brutal is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2018, 00:18
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,870
Received 359 Likes on 189 Posts
If I had my time over I'd fly a jet for a private owner. Visitor (frequent) to local FBO day before Xmas gave the handler a $25K watch and pilot reported a $500K bonus.
500 PIC multi, HEMS experience, NVIS experience, 135/145 rated. Not many people around with that
There are folks with 20K hours mutli that don't have the other quals asked for. Possible candidate?
megan is online now  
Old 17th Feb 2018, 02:24
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Zealand
Age: 56
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PNG Pilots get:

a sack of peanuts
no health benefits - apart from the runs
no super
crap airlines
touring_pilot is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2018, 04:45
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Florida/Sandbox/UK
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Brutal - I hear what you are saying but the term "Qualified" is only a starting point in many cases. You advertise for the pilot you would choose in an ideal world, however, if they don't exist or are not interested then you have two options - either widen the door or increase the salary/package.

I need 139 pilots at the moment (thats AW 139, not one hundred and thirty-nine pilots), but we require a very special set of skills and few meet the requirements. I am often in a position of having to trade skills and experience in order to get close to the right man.
hihover is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2018, 06:33
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: On land
Posts: 237
Received 23 Likes on 10 Posts
I need 139 pilots at the moment
I hope you’re ready for an influx of PMs, from 130hrs R22 guys and upwards!
Nescafe is online now  
Old 17th Feb 2018, 08:33
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This has been an interesting exercise. It seems that there are some pilots not getting anywhere near their worth and some doing okay (FOs paid the same as Capt in a different sector). This example was one of the reasons I commenced this thread. It is my belief that there should exist an Industry minimum for certain positions in the aircraft. Any amount above that minimum would be a weighting for time served, ad-quals, hostile environment, unsociable hrs, critical nature of role etc.......so why are we not at our Union doors asking for some perfectly reasonable parity? I believe the industry as a whole would benefit as companies would engender loyalty, would suffer less turn over and constant training/re-qual costs and the pilot would know where he stood and have a predictable pay spine upon which to aspire.
Companies are trying to get more for less - it is the way of it. But you pay peanuts, you get monkeys (eventually) and that means higher costs to train to standard at the end of the day. You may as well pay the experienced pilots the right amount in the first place. Notice, I'm not saying we all need a pay rise. I'm saying we need parity in the industry so we cannot fall fowl of the scaremongering that companies invoke. Which is a dreadful untruth. There are not ques of pilots behind me. It is a massive and expensive faff to re-employ and train a new pilot.........pilots are still a rare and valuable asset - actually, a completely unique and essential part of a lot of multi million £/$ industries. If we were not there, the industries would cease to function!
So how do we change it? Strike, go to the Unions? Suggestions please?
Oh, and I haven't even commented on the weight of responsibility that we hold. People's lives in our hands and the multi million pound machinery. Other sectors with that kind of burden get paid appropriately (perhaps? Another discussion?). Doctors, airline pilots, train drivers, dentists etc
Murdoch01 is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2018, 11:13
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 100
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by hihover
Brutal - I hear what you are saying but the term "Qualified" is only a starting point in many cases. You advertise for the pilot you would choose in an ideal world, however, if they don't exist or are not interested then you have two options - either widen the door or increase the salary/package.

I need 139 pilots at the moment (thats AW 139, not one hundred and thirty-nine pilots), but we require a very special set of skills and few meet the requirements. I am often in a position of having to trade skills and experience in order to get close to the right man.
Rotational or residential?
Medevac999 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.