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Salaries?

Old 17th Feb 2018, 12:13
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by hihover View Post
Brutal - I hear what you are saying but the term "Qualified" is only a starting point in many cases. You advertise for the pilot you would choose in an ideal world, however, if they don't exist or are not interested then you have two options - either widen the door or increase the salary/package.

I need 139 pilots at the moment (thats AW 139, not one hundred and thirty-nine pilots), but we require a very special set of skills and few meet the requirements. I am often in a position of having to trade skills and experience in order to get close to the right man.
Rotational or residential?
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 12:41
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by hihover View Post
Brutal - I hear what you are saying but the term "Qualified" is only a starting point in many cases. You advertise for the pilot you would choose in an ideal world, however, if they don't exist or are not interested then you have two options - either widen the door or increase the salary/package.

I need 139 pilots at the moment (thats AW 139, not one hundred and thirty-nine pilots), but we require a very special set of skills and few meet the requirements. I am often in a position of having to trade skills and experience in order to get close to the right man.
So basically you're one of the employers who believe that only a type rated person will do because you don't wish to invest in the right candidate? I've lost count of the amount of times ive seen this. Come with the type rating and you can have a job. It's like Pay2Fly in places like Ryanair. I'll just go do a 50k type rating for the slim chance of a job which pays less than that per year, and be loyal to the company. If helicopter companies wished to invest in people (they don't) they should factor in the cost of these type ratings into the costs of the job. It'll never happen though.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 13:14
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 776
It was different in the 90's.
Friend of mine was given instrument and 332 ratings.
I came on line about 15 months later and they had stopped that practice.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 14:54
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Location: After all, what’s more important than proving to someone on the internet that they’re wrong? - Manson
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Why are police and HEMS paid so badly? Isn’t it time for them to be recognised monetarily
for the role they carry out? I have friends who do these jobs and they are Captains who fly high stakes
missions, in very poor weather, require an IR, fly at night on NVIS, have unsociable hrs, land in hazardous
unprepared sites and deal with sometimes very unpalatable subject matter.....? Single pilot as well.
Although they do have part assistance from a crew member they carry the aviation responsibility squarely
on their shoulders......all for the lowest salaries in the industry. Is this acceptable anymore?
No, but there are plenty of people with multi-thousand hours of IR experience who can't even get a sniff of a HEMS interview as:

a) there are not ex-mil,
I was always of the opinion possibly unfounded that the these guys supplemented their meagre stipe with an ex-mil pension? Could be wrong.

Plus - what else are they going to do with their particular skill set?

P.S. VIP - ATPL (non IR) Light Twin EC Type - B1.3 on type - EUR 140K fully found - equal time - global ops.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 15:51
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Florida/Sandbox/UK
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Mutt, you seem to have gone off at a tangent here, I don't know of any helicopter operators offering a Ryanair type of package.

Originally Posted by helimutt View Post
So basically you're one of the employers who believe that only a type rated person will do because you don't wish to invest in the right candidate? I've lost count of the amount of times ive seen this.
You can't be thinking this through before you bash your thoughts into the keyboard, why would anyone pay to train (type rating) an unknown pilot when there are qualified pilots (with operational experience on type) out there? Don't compare this to Ryanair, its a different business model. I am not surprised you have lost count.

The days of being offered a job because you have a type rating and a pulse are over.

The industry is in turmoil but I have no doubt it will settle down. The problem with the helicopter industry is that we seem unable to forecast with any certainty what the industry will be like next year. With that in mind, do you really expect an employer, who does not know you, to invest 50k to see if you're a good fit??

Good luck with that!!
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 20:07
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 1,603
The days of being offered a job because you have a type rating and a pulse are over.

The industry is in turmoil but I have no doubt it will settle down. The problem with the helicopter industry is that we seem unable to forecast with any certainty what the industry will be like next year. With that in mind, do you really expect an employer, who does not know you, to invest 50k to see if you're a good fit??

Good luck with that!!

Well the companies can continue in the system they have, whereby they only employ a 'ready to go, type rated, known quantity' and good luck to them. Pilots are becoming wise to the bigger companies nowadays. They know there is no loyalty to a company anymore. You only have to look at most of the offshore NS companies and the way they treated people over the last 6-7 years. I always said I would never ever pay for another type rating to get a job again. Yes thats my prerogative and if it means I get a job in the local supermarket instead of flying then so be it. My days of funding my flying are over. It won't surprise me to see young pilots paying to fly in the near future. (just like the ryanair model). Good luck to them but see where it gets them when they're complaining about sh*t wages down the line. Hey maybe i'm wrong and it'll all be jobs and type ratings for all in the next few years. Somehow i doubt it having been in this game for 20+ years.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 21:21
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by hargreaves99 View Post
I would not bank on it. Unless the oil price doubles. And that's unlikely.
Oil price is irrelevant to this. Irrelevant in the sense it doesn't need to increase, it's just fine where it is.

Last edited by helicrazi; 17th Feb 2018 at 21:57.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 22:22
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Warrington, UK
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I was always of the opinion possibly unfounded that the these guys supplemented their meagre stipe with an ex-mil pension?
The ex Mil guys possibly did, if they had left at a point in their Military service when they were entitled to draw a pension immediately. However, the pilots that hadn't served with the Military, and there were a few, couldn't.
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 08:30
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Originally Posted by MightyGem View Post
The ex Mil guys possibly did, if they had left at a point in their Military service when they were entitled to draw a pension immediately. However, the pilots that hadn't served with the Military, and there were a few, couldn't.
Due the drawdown of the military in the wake if an outbreak of peace and the military keeping hold of their pilots for longer (especially the AAC who no longer "retire" NCOs at their 22 year point), the amount of non-military pilots in the Police/HEMS world is now on the up......will salaries change? I doubt it.
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 15:47
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: A long way from home with lots more sand.
Age: 51
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Ex-military Helo now a B777 TRE in the sandpit. $USD21k (inc accomodation) per month plus school fees paid and another 2.3k into Provident. No its nowhere near as much fun but I push a button and someone actually brings me a coffee when I ask. It provides a far better life for my family than staying in helo's ever would but I still miss it (last rotary PIC 1998 so 20yrs now!!!)
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 01:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 26
If you have the means to, change over to fixed wing post haste. You can fly helicopters for fun when you are earning good money at an airline. Helicopter industry is an absolute joke unless you are already at the top of town.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 01:35
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I believe the industry as a whole would benefit as companies would engender loyalty, would suffer less turn over and constant training/re-qual costs
Scene, oil company conference room, assembled, pilots of oil company owned and operated operation and oil company executive whose aviation knowledge was zip. Statement, "We don't give a f$#%^ about you people. You've got it too good". Reason, stable work force, no turn over. Bye the way, the statement is word for word.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 17:02
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 779
Originally Posted by megan View Post
Scene, oil company conference room, assembled, pilots of oil company owned and operated operation and oil company executive whose aviation knowledge was zip. Statement, "We don't give a f$#%^ about you people. You've got it too good". Reason, stable work force, no turn over. Bye the way, the statement is word for word.
For the ones capable of german
https://youtu.be/tpUB3LvM4Jo
1% of mankind are psychos, no empathy- but they can hide it in public...
In management top positions you find 14ish % of them.....
So quite possibly the statement was from one of them....
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