ATPL(H)

[Perra]

Trying to figure out when a ATPL(H) is required in commercial air transport and HEMS.

Is it based on helicopter weight more than 3175 kg?
Is it passenger related more than 9 passengers?
Is it multi crew related, i.e if you want to operate a helicopter in multi pilot operation, does the commander require an atpl(h)?

I am just getting more and more confused and would appreciate some answers and where I can find the EASA ruling itself.

[hueyracer]

FCL.305 CPL — Privileges and conditions
(a) Privileges. The privileges of the holder of a CPL are, within the appropriate aircraft category, to:
(1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of an LAPL and a PPL;
(2) act as PIC or co-pilot of any aircraft engaged in operations other than commercial air
transport;
(3) act as PIC in commercial air transport of any single-pilot aircraft subject to the restrictions
specified in FCL.060 and in this Subpart;
(4) act as co-pilot in commercial air transport subject to the restrictions specified in FCL.060

FCL.505 ATPL — Privileges
(a) The privileges of the holder of an ATPL are, within the appropriate aircraft category, to:
(1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of an LAPL, a PPL and a CPL;
(2) act as PIC of aircraft engaged in commercial air transport.

Does this answer your question?
The key word here is "Commercial Air Transport".

[Perra]

So if a Commercial Air Transport is carried out single pilot in lets say an Airbus 145 T2 it would be enough with a CPL(H) but if it it is operated multi pilot the commander would have to have an ATPL(H)?

And if the operation is carried out as HEMS both above flights would be fine with only a CPL(H)?

[Aucky]

Originally Posted by Perra

So if a Commercial Air Transport is carried out single pilot in lets say an Airbus 145 T2 it would be enough with a CPL(H) but if it it is operated multi pilot the commander would have to have an ATPL(H)?

And if the operation is carried out as HEMS both above flights would be fine with only a CPL(H)?

HEMS is no exception. If operated multi-pilot it requires an ATPL(H) (for now) - it's still commercial air transport as you're carrying medical passengers and the flight is a revenue flight.

[Sloppy Link]

Happy to be corrected, just because the Operator uses two crew doesn't mean an ATPL(H) is required, it us only if the Manufacturer declares that two crew are required to operate the aircraft, an ATPL(H) is required. No?

[GoodGrief]

It depends on the company's ops manual.
You can make a 206 a multi pilot aircraft.

[Aucky]

Originally Posted by GoodGrief

It depends on the company's ops manual.
You can make a 206 a multi pilot aircraft.

I believe nowadays in EASA land you'd be required to have multi-pilot privileges for that type on your licence, and as a pre-requisite under FCL.720.H therefore require ATPL theory and MCC etc. The CAA put out an information notice about it back in 2013.

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33...uly%2013v1.pdf

Quoting the above IN "Choosing to operate a single pilot helicopter with 2 pilots as a policy of the owner/operator of the helicopter does not make it a multi-pilot operation; as flying the aircraft multi-pilot is not required by the operating rules in such a case"

[Sloppy Link]

Originally Posted by Sloppy Link

Happy to be corrected, just because the Operator uses two crew doesn't mean an ATPL(H) is required, it us only if the Manufacturer declares that two crew are required to operate the aircraft, an ATPL(H) is required. No?

Now I think on it, you can only get an ATPL(H) initial award on a multi-crew aircraft as defined by the Manufacturer, not the Operator else, as has been posted earlier, we would all be getting an ATPL(H) awarded on a AB206.....actually, that wouldn't happen because it is a single, it would be have to be an AS355 or similar. I'm certain in CAP804 (is that still valid?) there is a list of acceptable types.

[Sloppy Link]

Originally Posted by Aucky

HEMS is no exception. If operated multi-pilot it requires an ATPL(H) (for now) - it's still commercial air transport as you're carrying medical passengers and the flight is a revenue flight.

No it doesn't. CPL(H) is sufficient. EC145 is SP and that is what it says on your ticket (confusingly BK117), HEMS just decide to operate twin pilot.....but not in all locations.

[Perra]

So is the conclusion that I can operate as a commander in a multi pilot operation on a 145 with only a CPL?

Providing that I have SP/MP on my license.

HEMS in some location in Sweden are Single Pilot Operations by the way.

[Outwest]

only if the Manufacturer declares that two crew are required to operate the aircraft,

Or the country specific authority. Canada does not allow SP IFR (rotary) so if IFR, 2 crew are required and the PIC must have an ATPL.

[Helinaut]

If the employer wants an ATP...then you need it. Wrap your head around it and get it.
Unfortunately many employers want an ATP now and cut them selfs short of available pilots.

[hueyracer]

So is the conclusion that I can operate as a commander in a multi pilot operation on a 145 with only a CPL?

No.
See above in my previous post......
With a CPL, you can only act as PIC in CAT on SINGLE PILOT Helicopter!

Flying "Multi Pilot" on a "Single Pilot Helicopter" does not make it "Multi Pilot"!

Either the Operations Manual, or the RFM MUST indicate that the minimum crew for this helicopter is more than one pilot-or the "second pilot" can not log the hours!!!

But if the Ops Manual or the RFM indicate that the Minimum crew is more than one pilot, both pilots will need ATPL-theory, MCC, and a Multi-Pilot type rating...

[Sloppy Link]

Recent advert for Yorkshire Air Ambulance was for CPL.

[Aucky]

Originally Posted by Sloppy Link

Recent advert for Yorkshire Air Ambulance was for CPL.

Yorkshire Air Ambulance operate single-pilot so CPL is all that's required.

Perra - In EASA land: CAT/HEMS can be operated single-pilot or multi-pilot. HEMS units that operate multi-pilot generally choose to for safety when flying NVG etc - although some countries I'm not aware of may mandate it for certain operations.

If operated single-pilot (135/145/902/169) the holder only needs a CPL with SP privileges in their licence I.e. EC145/SP.

IF operated multi-pilot, both pilots must have MP type privileges for that type I.e. EC145/SP/MP in their licence (in accordance with FCL.720.H these privileges require MCC & ATPL theory), the ops manual must specify approved multi-pilot procedures, and the commander must hold an ATPL. HEMS attracts no alleviations over CAT in this respect. It is a passenger carrying commercial flight.

However, standby for change in this area