Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

HNZ wins SAR in Oz

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

HNZ wins SAR in Oz

Reply

Old 25th May 2017, 13:30
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 261
So they do get leave after all - 6 weeks. So 20 weeks work, 32 weeks off.
This is getting ridiculous! How do you stay current at only working 20 weeks?!

I'm curious to hear from older pilots about how the rosters used to be, and if they were fair?
Were they better flying days and rosters 10 years ago compared to what they are now?
Or are we just princesses that need to harden the F up, and work hard like the rest of the heli pilots overseas?
Kulwin Park is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2017, 14:19
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by Kulwin Park View Post
This is getting ridiculous! How do you stay current at only working 20 weeks?!

I'm curious to hear from older pilots about how the rosters used to be, and if they were fair?
Were they better flying days and rosters 10 years ago compared to what they are now?
Or are we just princesses that need to harden the F up, and work hard like the rest of the heli pilots overseas?
Where do you get that roster?
The best touring roster I'm aware of in Australia has you "on" 15 days, "off" 13.
Then annual leave for 29 days (42 minus 13 earned as field leave).
About 164 days in 365. (According to my late night maths)
Remember, these are 24hr days, away from home/loved ones/motorbikes/etc, not your average 8hr days.

It's been this way for a long time. A hard fought for compromise. One that has not created problems remaining current.

The "race to the bottom" is seeing people agree to travel and train in their own time.
Watch the relationship failure rate go up.

Feel free to "harden the F up, and work hard like the rest of the heli pilots overseas?"

Just do the Aussies a favour, and do it overseas.
Twist & Shout is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2017, 20:59
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: north or south
Age: 45
Posts: 458
Some of you guys make me laugh , there are lots of unemployed pilots out there, would love a job with HNZ .

You need to wake up, the nose in the trough days are over
ersa is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 00:38
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by ersa View Post
Some of you guys make me laugh , there are lots of unemployed pilots out there, would love a job with HNZ .

You need to wake up, the nose in the trough days are over
Some of you make me cry.
Can you remember a time when there wasn't "lots of unemployed pilots out there"?

What you call "Nose in the trough", many professional pilots call "remuneration commiserate with skills, experience and qualifications being utilized by the employer".

Some are talking like these jobs wouldn't exist if remuneration and lifestyle cuts weren't accepted. Do you think the oil companies would leave their workers on the rigs or something?
Do you see your petrol getting cheaper?
Are the oil companies accepting contracts with S76/B412/AS332 to save money?

HNZ claim they couldn't get pilots to work for what they offered, and needed to bring pilots from overseas on 457 visas as I understand it.

The current tactic appears to be: make secret "individual" offers until they get enough pilots. With no EBA protection, it's obvious these "deals" will be eroded as much as possible over time.

The logic on this thread seems to be: just tell the pilot we need to pay you less, and if you don't agree, there are plenty of unemployed pilots around.

Some pretty simplistic and short term ideas being justified on here.
Divided and deceived we fall "Brothers".
Twist & Shout is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 05:35
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 120
I'm with you ersa, for the mean time the glory days are over.
The Australian offshore were and probably still are some of the best employment conditions you would get anywhere in the world,but when things go south as they have done in the last few years why all the whinging and moaning. It's been good for a long time and now things are changing, it happens, well actually it is happened.
It's not just the helicopter industry that the oil downturn has affected yet some of the posts on here you would think the oil industry is there just to give pilots a job.
Everyone else has had a whinge on this thread so thought I would to even if it is from a slightly different angle
fadecdegraded is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 07:22
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: north or south
Age: 45
Posts: 458
Twist and shout... do you work for Bristow ?, the gold plated deals are over, the oil companies now want value for money , they want the budget carriers not the legacy carriers.

In Oz Jetstar fly the same route as Qantas....for a 1/3 of the price using newer planes. This is happening to helicopter off shore operations....
ersa is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 09:44
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Inside the Industry
Posts: 558
ersa is right. Lots of oil companies now looking at using boats to cut costs even further. All operating expenses need to be cut by another 20%. Its tough out there.
industry insider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 12:09
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 51
Posts: 4,219
Where do you get that roster?
Probably from my earlier post. If you work 3/3 that means 26 weeks work and 26 weeks off. If you get 6 weeks leave, that implies 20 weeks work.

The "race to the bottom" is seeing people agree to travel and train in their own time.
The agreement says that all training is done in time on duty......

Employees will not be required to obtain, maintain or renew any licence, rating or type endorsement required by the Company in their own time or at their own cost.
212man is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 14:15
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by 212man View Post
Probably from my earlier post. If you work 3/3 that means 26 weeks work and 26 weeks off. If you get 6 weeks leave, that implies 20 weeks work.


The agreement says that all training is done in time on duty......

There is some smoke and mirrors on most of these rosters.
E.g. The 3/3 might be 20 days at home 23 days away if you travel in "your" time. (And haven't got too far to go.) The "6 weeks leave" might include the 20 days at home you have "earned" during your 23 days away.
Twist & Shout is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2017, 16:12
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 51
Posts: 4,219
Originally Posted by Twist & Shout View Post
There is some smoke and mirrors on most of these rosters.
E.g. The 3/3 might be 20 days at home 23 days away if you travel in "your" time. (And haven't got too far to go.) The "6 weeks leave" might include the 20 days at home you have "earned" during your 23 days away.
Seems pretty clear cut to me:
11.1 Annual leave
Full-time Employees are entitled to 42 days of paid annual leave, inclusive of weekends and public holidays, for each year of completed service with the Company.
For reference, my employer is one of the customers, and we do not get any additional leave when on equal time touring posts (including offshore).
212man is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2017, 17:18
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Out West
Posts: 198
For reference, my employer is one of the customers, and we do not get any additional leave when on equal time touring posts (including offshore).
Quite 212. A number of employers do not even pay their pilots on equal time tours when on time off. Others expect pilots to attend recurrency training in their time off. I know of no other country that gives pilots annual leave when they are on equal time tours.

Some people don't know when they are well off.
Same again is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2017, 02:42
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 2,315
Some people don't know when they are well off
In the race to the bottom I'm wondering when the helo industry will adopt a practice, I believe used in some airlines (737 & similar), of copilots paying the operator a per hour rate for the privilege of sitting in the seat and gaining "experience".
megan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2017, 03:24
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Below Escape Velocity
Posts: 415
of copilots paying the operator a per hour rate for the privilege of sitting in the seat and gaining "experience".
Well, not precisely, but I do know of a fellow of experience who is paying for his own recurrent simulator training to take a position. Those nudge-nudge-wink-wink hints are being tested currently, apparently.
Um... lifting... is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 27th Jul 2017, 02:10
  #34 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Underneath the Radar
Posts: 71
Hmmm... Just heard that HNZ failed their CASA audit and Bristow have been stood up to provide SAR services...
rrekn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 27th Jul 2017, 07:02
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 349
If that's the case it's down to gross incompetence. They had the option to get help from European/Canadian arms of the company when setting up the operation but were too arrogant to listen.
Hedski is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 27th Jul 2017, 13:56
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sometimes here, sometimes there
Posts: 367
get help from European
Do HNZ have any European operations?
Variable Load is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 27th Jul 2017, 17:13
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 51
Posts: 4,219
Originally Posted by Variable Load View Post
Do HNZ have any European operations?
Not any more...
212man is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 27th Jul 2017, 21:42
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 349
But did at the time of planning...
Hedski is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 28th Jul 2017, 05:42
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 51
Posts: 4,219
Originally Posted by rrekn View Post
Hmmm... Just heard that HNZ failed their CASA audit and Bristow have been stood up to provide SAR services...
Hmmm.... Just heard that they did not fail it....
212man is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 28th Jul 2017, 06:56
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by 212man View Post
Hmmm.... Just heard that they did not fail it....
Well, it is a Rumour network.

One Rumour, among several, is they didn't have "winch" approved on their Operators Cerificate, hence the need for another operator to cover the SAR requirements. Pretty sad state of affairs if there is any truth to it. (But technically not "failing" an inspection.)

Maybe they are not only "second tier" in employment conditions, but other areas as well?
Twist & Shout is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service